Page 4 of 8

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:04 pm
by Stevoman
Hahahaha section 2 gets both Dorsaneo and Bridge. Hope you guys are ready for plenty of stand-and-recite Socratic calling.

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:35 pm
by emmy463
Hey, how do they determine what section you're in? Is it completely random or do they do it by name or something? Thanks for freakin me out, Stevoman hahah

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:14 pm
by Titleist89
Stevoman wrote:Hahahaha section 2 gets both Dorsaneo and Bridge. Hope you guys are ready for plenty of stand-and-recite Socratic calling.
Haha yeah... I'm currently in Section 2 and I've had both. They really aren't all that bad, but your stress/anxiety level will probably be a little higher than your section 1 counterparts. Feel free to PM me if y'all have any questions about the Section 2 profs in general. From what I understand they should be pretty much the same as they were this year. Just know we're in the home stretch with finals in less than two weeks, so you may not get a response until mid-May.

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:51 pm
by Stevoman
emmy463 wrote:Hey, how do they determine what section you're in? Is it completely random or do they do it by name or something? Thanks for freakin me out, Stevoman hahah
I've heard they try to get a diverse mix of students in both sections. It's not by name or anything mechanical that I'm aware of.

Don't worry. Almost nothing that happens in the classroom matters. Your peers will forget your dumb answer within 30 seconds (because they're too worried about themselves), and your professor will not adjust your grade unless you are 100% unprepared (and are dumb enough to admit it).

The only thing that matters is your final exam. Prepare for the exam, not for class.

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:04 pm
by kenzo
I was recently waitlisted. Any suggestions on how to get off since it's not by rank? Was thinking about flying out there and setting up a tour and trying to meet with a current student.

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:05 pm
by bound
kenzo wrote:I was recently waitlisted. Any suggestions on how to get off since it's not by rank? Was thinking about flying out there and setting up a tour and trying to meet with a current student.

Retaking the LSAT gives you the most liklihood of getting off.

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:31 pm
by bound
TheJanitor6203 wrote:Posting this here as well.

Actual "Biglaw" Firm Offices in Dallas that Start at $160,000 (probably not all-inclusive):

Baker Botts
Vinson Elkins
Fulbright
Weil
Gibson Dunn
Jones Day
Baker & McKenzie
Hunton & Williams
DLA Piper
Fish & Richardson
Haynes & Boone
K&L Gates
Morgan Lewis
Patton Boggs
Locke Lord
Thompson & Knight
Bracewell & Giuliani
Akin Gump
Sidley Austin
Alston & Bird
Bryan Cave
Andrews Kurth
Jackson Walker
Gardere
Winstead

Does anyone know the grade cutoffs for these?

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:31 pm
by Attax
bound wrote:
Does anyone know the grade cutoffs for these?
Not sure, but you can use NALP. For example:

http://employers.nalpdirectory.org/empl ... mith%22%7D

Doesn't give an exact amount, but seems to be implying top 15-20%

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:55 pm
by Stevoman
bound wrote:Does anyone know the grade cutoffs for these?
You're in law school now, so get used to this answer: "it depends."

I'm in IP and had no trouble finding a SA around the top 25-33%. I know others well in the top 25% that fought quite an uphill battle finding a job. The NALP directory helps but there's still a lot of wiggle room. Not to bash on my peers, but if you're a K-JD who majored in literature you're going to be facing a much higher cutoff than the accountant who's back in school after 8 years of professional work.

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:00 pm
by downinDtown
bound wrote:
TheJanitor6203 wrote:Posting this here as well.

Actual "Biglaw" Firm Offices in Dallas that Start at $160,000 (probably not all-inclusive):

Baker Botts
Vinson Elkins
Fulbright
Weil
Gibson Dunn
Jones Day
Baker & McKenzie
Hunton & Williams
DLA Piper
Fish & Richardson
Haynes & Boone
K&L Gates
Morgan Lewis
Patton Boggs
Locke Lord
Thompson & Knight
Bracewell & Giuliani
Akin Gump
Sidley Austin
Alston & Bird
Bryan Cave
Andrews Kurth
Jackson Walker
Gardere
Winstead

Does anyone know the grade cutoffs for these?
All are market-paying firms unless otherwise noted

Akin Gump - Outstanding academic credentials (top 15-20 anecdotally unless URM)
Alston & Bird - Top 25%; journal preferred
Andrews Kurth - Top 15% required
Baker & McKenzie - Proven academic success (?? but hired 4 SMU SAs, I think)
Baker Botts - Top 10% / some flexibility
Bell Nunnally & Martin - Nothing Listed grade wise; had reception for SMU LRA (pay $140,000)
Bickel & Brewer - Top 10% required ($185,000 but bill floor is 2400 hours)
Bracewell Giuliani - Nothing Listed, but around 10-15% (pay is 135 for their San Antonio office)
Brown & Fortunato (Amarillo) - Top 25%; LR
Bryan Cave - Nothing Listed. Didn't go to OCI (pay is $145,000)
Cantey & Hanger - Dallas (), Ft. Worth, & Southlake - Top 25%
Carrington, Coleman, Sloman, & Blumenthal - didn't have SA program in 2013; Top 15% required; LR / journal preferred (pay is $135,000)
Carstens & Cahoon - IP boutique, requires hard science or engineering undergrad
Chamberlain, Hrdlicka, White, Williams & Martin - nothing listed
Cox Smith Matthews Inc. - San Antonio & Dallas - Top 33% required, journal / moot or mock preferred (pay= $120,000 (Firmwide))
Dykema Gossett - nothing listed (pay = $135,000)
Exxon Mobil - D.C. & Houston - Requires whole summer; Top 40%; journal pref.
Figari & Davenport -IP - Top 25%; LR (pay = $110,000)
Fish & Richardson - Top 25%; strong writing; patent prosecution requires tech background.also has commercial lit group
Fulbright & Jaworski- only say Journal preferred but not required
Gardere - Nothing listed
Gibson, Dunn, & Crutcher - Outstanding academics (basically top 10%); Evidence of teamwork
Graves Dougherty Hearon & Moody - nothing listed ($130,000)
Greenburg Traurig - Top 15%-20% preferred ($140,400 (Austin) and $150,000 (Dallas))
Harris, Finley, & Bogle - Ft. Worth - Top 25%
Hartline Dacus Barger Dreyer - Dallas & Corpus Christi - Top 33%; Law Review; moot / mock
Haynes & Boone - Top 15% required; Law Review pref.
Hunton & Williams- says Top 5% but goes lower, Law Review preferred
Jackson Walker - Top 25%
Jones Day - Top 15%
K&L Gates - Prefer top 15% w/ Top 25% cut-off; Law Review / journal / moot/mock preferred
Kelly, Hart, & Hallman - Ft. Worth - Nothing listed
Latham & Watkins - top 10%
Locke, Lorde, Bissell, & Liddell - Top 15%; extracurriculars highly recommended
Looper Reed McGraw - Top 30% ($120,000)
mckool smith - Top 25%; LR preferred; engineering undergrad pref.
Morgan Lewis & Bockius - nothing listed; Dallas office is labor & employment only
Munsch, Hart - Prefer top 33% ($145,000)
Orgain, Bell, & Tucker - Beaumont - Nothing listed
Patton Boggs - Top 15%; Law Review preferred
Perkins Coie - first time at SMU OCI last year (listed as paying $120,000, not sure if correct?)
Sidley Austin - with the exodus of Weil folks, will be interviewing not just for IP anymore; likely similar cut offs as Weil
Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom -nothing listed, but likely top 5-10%
Slater & Matsil -IP - Nothing listed
Dentons - nothing listed
Strasburger & Price - nothing listed, but around 20-25%. ($120,000)
Thompson & Knight - Prefer top 10%-15%, Law Review
Thompson, Coe, Cousins, & Irons - nothing listed, but lower than top firms (only pay 80 or 90)
FTC (US Gov’t) - Excellent research & writing skills
Vinson & Elkins - not listed but 10-15%
Weil, Gotshal - not listed but basically top 10% unless URM
Winstead - Top 25% required, LR preferred
Winston & Strawn LLP - Not at SMU OCI – Strong academics and on Law Review or Journal; strong literacy and oral advocacy skills
Zelle, Hoffman, Voelbel, & Mason - hire 1 diversity and 1 non-diversity out of SMU, UT, and Baylor (pay was 120 or 130)

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:13 pm
by bound
downinDtown wrote:
bound wrote:
TheJanitor6203 wrote:Posting this here as well.

Actual "Biglaw" Firm Offices in Dallas that Start at $160,000 (probably not all-inclusive):

Baker Botts
Vinson Elkins
Fulbright
Weil
Gibson Dunn
Jones Day
Baker & McKenzie
Hunton & Williams
DLA Piper
Fish & Richardson
Haynes & Boone
K&L Gates
Morgan Lewis
Patton Boggs
Locke Lord
Thompson & Knight
Bracewell & Giuliani
Akin Gump
Sidley Austin
Alston & Bird
Bryan Cave
Andrews Kurth
Jackson Walker
Gardere
Winstead

Does anyone know the grade cutoffs for these?
All are market-paying firms unless otherwise noted

Akin Gump - Outstanding academic credentials (top 15-20 anecdotally unless URM)
Alston & Bird - Top 25%; journal preferred
Andrews Kurth - Top 15% required
Baker & McKenzie - Proven academic success (?? but hired 4 SMU SAs, I think)
Baker Botts - Top 10% / some flexibility
Bell Nunnally & Martin - Nothing Listed grade wise; had reception for SMU LRA (pay $140,000)
Bickel & Brewer - Top 10% required ($185,000 but bill floor is 2400 hours)
Bracewell Giuliani - Nothing Listed, but around 10-15% (pay is 135 for their San Antonio office)
Brown & Fortunato (Amarillo) - Top 25%; LR
Bryan Cave - Nothing Listed. Didn't go to OCI (pay is $145,000)
Cantey & Hanger - Dallas (), Ft. Worth, & Southlake - Top 25%
Carrington, Coleman, Sloman, & Blumenthal - didn't have SA program in 2013; Top 15% required; LR / journal preferred (pay is $135,000)
Carstens & Cahoon - IP boutique, requires hard science or engineering undergrad
Chamberlain, Hrdlicka, White, Williams & Martin - nothing listed
Cox Smith Matthews Inc. - San Antonio & Dallas - Top 33% required, journal / moot or mock preferred (pay= $120,000 (Firmwide))
Dykema Gossett - nothing listed (pay = $135,000)
Exxon Mobil - D.C. & Houston - Requires whole summer; Top 40%; journal pref.
Figari & Davenport -IP - Top 25%; LR (pay = $110,000)
Fish & Richardson - Top 25%; strong writing; patent prosecution requires tech background.also has commercial lit group
Fulbright & Jaworski- only say Journal preferred but not required
Gardere - Nothing listed
Gibson, Dunn, & Crutcher - Outstanding academics (basically top 10%); Evidence of teamwork
Graves Dougherty Hearon & Moody - nothing listed ($130,000)
Greenburg Traurig - Top 15%-20% preferred ($140,400 (Austin) and $150,000 (Dallas))
Harris, Finley, & Bogle - Ft. Worth - Top 25%
Hartline Dacus Barger Dreyer - Dallas & Corpus Christi - Top 33%; Law Review; moot / mock
Haynes & Boone - Top 15% required; Law Review pref.
Hunton & Williams- says Top 5% but goes lower, Law Review preferred
Jackson Walker - Top 25%
Jones Day - Top 15%
K&L Gates - Prefer top 15% w/ Top 25% cut-off; Law Review / journal / moot/mock preferred
Kelly, Hart, & Hallman - Ft. Worth - Nothing listed
Latham & Watkins - top 10%
Locke, Lorde, Bissell, & Liddell - Top 15%; extracurriculars highly recommended
Looper Reed McGraw - Top 30% ($120,000)
McKool Smith - Top 25%; LR preferred; engineering undergrad pref.
Morgan Lewis & Bockius - nothing listed; Dallas office is labor & employment only
Munsch, Hart - Prefer top 33% ($145,000)
Orgain, Bell, & Tucker - Beaumont - Nothing listed
Patton Boggs - Top 15%; Law Review preferred
Perkins Coie - first time at SMU OCI last year (listed as paying $120,000, not sure if correct?)
Sidley Austin - with the exodus of Weil folks, will be interviewing not just for IP anymore; likely similar cut offs as Weil
Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom -nothing listed, but likely top 5-10%
Slater & Matsil -IP - Nothing listed
Dentons - nothing listed
Strasburger & Price - nothing listed, but around 20-25%. ($120,000)
Thompson & Knight - Prefer top 10%-15%, Law Review
Thompson, Coe, Cousins, & Irons - nothing listed, but lower than top firms (only pay 80 or 90)
FTC (US Gov’t) - Excellent research & writing skills
Vinson & Elkins - not listed but 10-15%
Weil, Gotshal - not listed but basically top 10% unless URM
Winstead - Top 25% required, LR preferred
Winston & Strawn LLP - Not at SMU OCI – Strong academics and on Law Review or Journal; strong literacy and oral advocacy skills
Zelle, Hoffman, Voelbel, & Mason - hire 1 diversity and 1 non-diversity out of SMU, UT, and Baylor (pay was 120 or 130)

Holy shit you're awesome!! This was exactly what I was looking for.

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:33 pm
by downinDtown
No prob. For you and others that have questions about firms as that time gets closer, let me know if I can help.

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:55 pm
by Afterparty
Wondering if anyone could provide some insight! In general, how often does the firm you become a SA for offer a full time position for post grad?

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:09 am
by downinDtown
Afterparty wrote:Wondering if anyone could provide some insight! In general, how often does the firm you become a SA for offer a full time position for post grad?
For large firms (100+ attorneys, most of which are NALP firms), you can search on nalpdirectory.com and find their offer rates by firm and office location. For example, Baker Botts organizational snapshot (available here: http://nalpdirectory.com/content/Organi ... t_3809.pdf) says that they offered 11 out of 11 2L SAs last year. You can find this organizational snapshot for each office location of every NALP firm. Some firms have a reputation of no-offering students, and that definitely can affect your decision if you're holding multiple offers. You'll consistently see the firms with a track record of 90%+ offer rates do well at OCI. Some people hedge this by trying to do split summers (first and second half SAs with different firms), but more and more firms are either 1) not doing second-half programs (I can think of only 4 or 5 large firms that still do in Dallas which makes them very competitive with all the students trying to snag one, but some go to smaller/mid-size firms 2nd half), or 2) have longer summer programs (8- to 10- to 12-week programs). The firms with longer summer programs tend to have higher offer rates generally.

For smaller or mid-size firms that are not on NALP, you'd have to either hear it from other students or talk to the school's OCS, since they keep records of every summer internship students have gotten and whether they got an offer or not. Generally, smaller firms do not have a formal hiring program and their hiring is need based, and they can't predict hiring needs of the firm over a year out like a large firm can.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:52 am
by kalvano
Be aware that some of the regional Biglaw firms may say they pay $160K, but it's really not a true $160K salary. They will count things like parking and whatnot towards the $160K, or make part of it contingent on hitting a certain number of hours.

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 11:18 pm
by squee116
Does anyone have experience with on-campus housing? Experiences, costs, etc. On paper, grad housing seems to be cheaper than an apartment, but I don't know if that's how it plays out in reality, or what might be given up for that.

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 10:32 am
by fourtyacslaw
squee116 wrote:Does anyone have experience with on-campus housing? Experiences, costs, etc. On paper, grad housing seems to be cheaper than an apartment, but I don't know if that's how it plays out in reality, or what might be given up for that.
I'm a 1L at SMU (Section 1), and know one person in my class who opted to live on campus in grad housing. From our talks about it, the place itself seemed pretty nice and had anything you would need (living room, small kitchen, etc.) and he really enjoyed the fact that he could walk five minutes to class. Admittedly I've never looked at the numbers myself, but on multiple occasions he talked about how the price wasn't all that great and he certainly wasn't getting a discount relative to off-campus options he could have taken. Also, he had issues where he had to orchestrate living in his place over Christmas break, and having to move back their move-out deadline after the spring semester since they wanted him to be out the day after finals ended (sounds nearly impossible to me). I'm good friends with him, and could ask him any questions you might have if you want to PM me.

To all the other admitted students, congratulations. I've really enjoyed my time so far at SMU and the people and faculty at the school made my first year a lot more pleasurable than that of many of my peers at other schools, from what I can tell. Like I said, I just finished my first year and was in section 1. I'd be happy to answer any questions anyone has generally, or about specific professors. In particular, I had Mayo (Torts), Gaba (Property), Palacios (Crim), Crespi (Contracts), and Martinez (Civ Pro). As for general living arrangements, I have a couple friends that live in the Village and it's probably the cheapest option you will find so close to SMU, and although not luxurious or in the middle of nightlife, it's more than adequate for law students. Many people also live in Uptown, which I personally would not do first year, but they like it. The commute is about 10-15 mins in the morning, there's plenty of restaurants and nightlife within walking distance, but on the downside is probably the priciest option. Personally, I live in a townhouse a couple blocks from campus, and I would recommend scouring Craigslist for any rooms in that area. Being close to school your first year is a pretty big deal in my opinion with everything going on, and some good places occasionally pop up. Finally, there's a Gable's apartment complex on Mockingbird near Mockingbird Station (I-75) where one of my friends lives, and it's a good middle of the road option.

Finally, not to turn this into Craigslist, but I have the casebooks for the above professors (minus Prop & Crim), and supplements for every class as well (multiple for most). I don't highlight in my books, so they are minimally used and any used books I purchased were minimally marked, if not new (like the other 1L recommended, I also suggest you purchase your books minimally marked to avoid confusion.) I planned to list them all individually on Amazon--where I recommend everyone buy/rent your books--but would be happy to sell them as a package deal for a good price if anyone is interested.

Anyways, I hope this was helpful and don't hesitate to shoot me a PM if you have any questions. TLS users, like kalvano above, were incredibly helpful and instrumental to getting through my first year, so I'd be happy to help anyone here in any way I can.

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 5:46 pm
by emmy463
Hey guys, I'm in town from Baton Rouge this week looking for apartments. So far I've only looked at the Standard, the BLVD, and Elan at Bluffview. I really liked the BLVD, however, I've heard from the financial aid advisor that it is heavily leased by undergraduates. I'm worried about there being too much noise there. Has anyone on here heard anything about the BLVD, the Standard, or Bluffview?

The financial aid advisor also mentioned the Village as a popular place for law students, but I have a Basset Hound and a lot of the buildings there won't accept dogs. I still plan on looking at a good bit of places in the next few days as well.

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 5:58 pm
by katkatkat12
emmy463 wrote:Hey guys, I'm in town from Baton Rouge this week looking for apartments. So far I've only looked at the Standard, the BLVD, and Elan at Bluffview. I really liked the BLVD, however, I've heard from the financial aid advisor that it is heavily leased by undergraduates. I'm worried about there being too much noise there. Has anyone on here heard anything about the BLVD, the Standard, or Bluffview?

The financial aid advisor also mentioned the Village as a popular place for law students, but I have a Basset Hound and a lot of the buildings there won't accept dogs. I still plan on looking at a good bit of places in the next few days as well.
I'm currently living in Dallas...soo maybe I can help you out. Personally, I would stay away from the Standard and the BLVD. The location is convenient, but the financial aid adviser is right. Too many undergrads live there, and I wouldn't want to risk living in a noisy apartment. I am not familiar with Bluffview, so I don't want to say anything incorrect about those apartments. I see they are located near Lovefield. Northwest Highway can be kind of a pain during rush hours and I really don't know what how convenient of a location that is in terms of grocery stores, study places, etc.

The villages are nice. I know they just built Landmark on Lover's right across from the villages. Pretty sure they allow pets. I'm planning on living in Deep Ellum when I start law school even though it's not by SMU, the prices are pretty decent.

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 10:58 am
by fourtyacslaw
emmy463 wrote:Hey guys, I'm in town from Baton Rouge this week looking for apartments. So far I've only looked at the Standard, the BLVD, and Elan at Bluffview. I really liked the BLVD, however, I've heard from the financial aid advisor that it is heavily leased by undergraduates. I'm worried about there being too much noise there. Has anyone on here heard anything about the BLVD, the Standard, or Bluffview?

The financial aid advisor also mentioned the Village as a popular place for law students, but I have a Basset Hound and a lot of the buildings there won't accept dogs. I still plan on looking at a good bit of places in the next few days as well.
I subleased a place in the BLVD the summer before starting law school, and I wouldn't recommend it. Even then it was loud, and it is definitely heavily leased by undergrads. The apartment area itself and the surrounding area is anything but quiet, and if by some terrible luck you end up with a room near the pool then it's even worse.

The Village is reasonably priced and a straight-shot to campus. I would look there and maybe the Phoenix Midtown on Mockingbird. I believe they allow pets. I'm not familiar with the Standard or Bluffview.

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 12:22 pm
by emmy463
Awesome! Thank you guys for all of your help. I visited the Village apartments this morning. Some of them do allow pets but then some of the places within the Village don't so I guess it just depends on the unit you're looking at. I've really liked the area so far. I also looked at Lincoln on University this morning,which is owned by the same people who own the Villages, and it's really nice as well.

Definitely scratching the BLVD off of my list though, haha.

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 3:00 pm
by thisiswater
emmy463 wrote:Awesome! Thank you guys for all of your help. I visited the Village apartments this morning. Some of them do allow pets but then some of the places within the Village don't so I guess it just depends on the unit you're looking at. I've really liked the area so far. I also looked at Lincoln on University this morning,which is owned by the same people who own the Villages, and it's really nice as well.

Definitely scratching the BLVD off of my list though, haha.

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:43 pm
by Afterparty
Not sure if anyone has looked into this or not; or maybe someone who has experienced it could provide some insight, but does anyone have suggestions for or already have OR have previously used a first year study schedule? This would be a schedule for someone who wants to do very well but still wants some sort of social life (go out maybe once a week).

I was hoping someone who has gone thru their first year and did well could provide some feedback for their 7 day/1 week study schedule. Just curious as to how much time we should spend actually studying and do LS related stuff. Thanks in advance!!

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:07 pm
by fourtyacslaw
Edited so my long response doesn't take over thread.

Re: SMU C/O 2017

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:23 pm
by emmy463
thisiswater wrote:
emmy463 wrote:Awesome! Thank you guys for all of your help. I visited the Village apartments this morning. Some of them do allow pets but then some of the places within the Village don't so I guess it just depends on the unit you're looking at. I've really liked the area so far. I also looked at Lincoln on University this morning,which is owned by the same people who own the Villages, and it's really nice as well.

Definitely scratching the BLVD off of my list though, haha.
I toured Standard and liked it a lot but ended up in Upper East Side in the Village (one of the village apartments that allows pets). There are lots of undergrads still, but I've had no noise issues and lots of the residents are professionals. If your price point is flexible, I highly recommend it.
Upper East Side was awesome! Unfortunately the girl at the office said she wouldn't know what rooms she would have available for August until next month and I didn't feel comfortable waiting that long to find a place. I ended up signing a lease at Lincoln on University, which I think will be nice also.