SSC Clerk Taking Questions Forum
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SSC Clerk Taking Questions
Current SSC clerk taking questions if anyone has any.
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
Are you in a smaller or bigger market state? Either way, how important are state ties in the application process. I'm coming from a lower T14 and have a clearly demonstrable intent to practice in the state (smaller market), at least for a while. I've interviewed with this SSC before but didn't get it and have re-applied for the year after a fellowship in that state, so I'm curious if that will significantly improve my chances.
Thanks for doing this!
Thanks for doing this!
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
In my chambers ties are marginally helpful but not crucial by any means. (I’m in a smaller market). If you meet our bring criteria otherwise you’ll get an interview even without any ties to the state. Conversely, if you don’t meet the criteria, ties won’t help. That being said, 80% of the clerks on the court come from local schools. But that may just be self selection.
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
Did you interview en banc or with an individual Justice/Judge?Anonymous User wrote:In my chambers ties are marginally helpful but not crucial by any means. (I’m in a smaller market). If you meet our bring criteria otherwise you’ll get an interview even without any ties to the state. Conversely, if you don’t meet the criteria, ties won’t help. That being said, 80% of the clerks on the court come from local schools. But that may just be self selection.
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
What is your criteria? Does it differ from say, a federal district court?Anonymous User wrote:In my chambers ties are marginally helpful but not crucial by any means. (I’m in a smaller market). If you meet our bring criteria otherwise you’ll get an interview even without any ties to the state. Conversely, if you don’t meet the criteria, ties won’t help. That being said, 80% of the clerks on the court come from local schools. But that may just be self selection.
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
Interviewed with the individual justice.
Generally we are looking for people who are competitive for federal CoA clerkships. So whatever the standard resume is for those is also what’s standard for us.
Generally we are looking for people who are competitive for federal CoA clerkships. So whatever the standard resume is for those is also what’s standard for us.
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
Also a current SSC, I figured I'd throw answers out too.
My state most judges don't care about ties at all, most don't stay in the state afterwards anyways. Ties might be beneficial, but definitely not required. Interest in corporate law is a big plus (at least for most of the judges).
You apply and interview for individual justices.
Most of the judges see themselves as equal to CoA for clerkship applicants. Journal/above median/upper T13 I think is the median.
My state most judges don't care about ties at all, most don't stay in the state afterwards anyways. Ties might be beneficial, but definitely not required. Interest in corporate law is a big plus (at least for most of the judges).
You apply and interview for individual justices.
Most of the judges see themselves as equal to CoA for clerkship applicants. Journal/above median/upper T13 I think is the median.
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
1) Does salary go up with experience, or a flat rate for all clerks?
2) For state SG's office attorneys who argue before the court, what backgrounds do most attorneys have?
2) For state SG's office attorneys who argue before the court, what backgrounds do most attorneys have?
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
Pay goes up with experience, up to a point.
The SG is a former SCOTUS clerk. Others kntnje office are a mix of older lifers and younger CoA clerk types.
The SG is a former SCOTUS clerk. Others kntnje office are a mix of older lifers and younger CoA clerk types.
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
Second SCC here. My state pays a flat rate of around 50k regardless of experience.
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
Thanks to the OP for doing this. are you planning to (or have already done) a federal clerkship? what's the pros and cons of doing multiple clerkships if one is a SSC?
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
I’m clerking ok the federal CoA next term.
In terms of substantive writing skill and mentorship the SSC itself is more than enough. But the federal appellate clerkship is a major resume boost.
In terms of substantive writing skill and mentorship the SSC itself is more than enough. But the federal appellate clerkship is a major resume boost.
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
are there tiers to SSC clerkships -- whether by state or by judge? e.g. Goodwin Liu on Cal SSC is obviously top tier, but how "prestigious" is a good judge in a smaller state -- especially if you don't plan on working in state? i'm thinking here certain judges on the Utah and Alaska SSCs
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
Anonymous User wrote:are there tiers to SSC clerkships -- whether by state or by judge? e.g. Goodwin Liu on Cal SSC is obviously top tier, but how "prestigious" is a good judge in a smaller state -- especially if you don't plan on working in state? i'm thinking here certain judges on the Utah and Alaska SSCs
There's definitely tiers to states. CA/NY/DE are probably alone in the top tier with national recognition. A bunch of other larger states are decent but will get much more traction within the state. and then probably about half are almost useless outside their state.
There are also tiers for specific judges, Liu you mentioned, Strine (well, used to be) in Delaware, and others. But I think mostly that will again be intra-state value.
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
does a SSC hurt one's chances at (1) working at an elite litigation boutique (kellogg, susman, wilkinson walsh), or (2) clerking on scotus? I'm competitive for SCOTUS, but interested in applying to a few select SSC justices who have ties. would the SSC in any way help those goals? or am i just treading water?
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
Non-OP SSC. I'm just coming off a clerkship at a top tier SSC, cum laude from a mid T13. I'm honestly a terrible interviewer, I still got callbacks at Kellogg, Selendy, MTO, Keker, and screeners with Bartlitt, Boies, among others. I definitely think it was seen as basically equivalent to a CoA.Anonymous User wrote:does a SSC hurt one's chances at (1) working at an elite litigation boutique (kellogg, susman, wilkinson walsh), or (2) clerking on scotus? I'm competitive for SCOTUS, but interested in applying to a few select SSC justices who have ties. would the SSC in any way help those goals? or am i just treading water?
Susman is an important distinction because they *only* hire from federal clerkships. Period. A SSC won't hurt you, but they won't even look at your resume if you don't also have a federal one.
I can't speak to SCOTUS, but I imagine a top tier SSC would be beneficial, although you'll still need a CoA (except maybe Liu).
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
With the caveat that my knowledge about clerking for SCOTUS is NOT from any personal experience, at all - I think if you’re actually competitive for SCOTUS (kudos!) you aren’t going to be less competitive if you do a SSC - you still have the qualifications you have. As the above poster suggests, you’ll probably still have to do the other required steps. (There was a recent-ish SCOTUS clerk who clerked for Eid when she was on the Colorado SC and then Gorsuch - I think it was Thomas she went on to clerk for but I can’t remember. There are a few SCOTUS SSC justices and I’m sure clerking for one of them would help you.)
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
OP, thanks for the thread and for the insight on tiers, that's really useful. My only concern is that I went to an event where a SSC justice spoke and a few people i spoke to were basically, "uhhh, no thanks." they just didn't think state court clerkships were worth the year i guess. If you (or others) had to do it all over again, would you clerk on the SSC vs say a really TTT district court (e.g, D. Kan. or N.D. West Va.)? For some reasons federal courts have a special gloss to them even, the TTTT ones. on the same note how would you evaluate a SSC vs. a flyover TTT CoA (CA3, CA8 etc.)?
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
Non-OP SSC again (and it was actually me who gave tiers, sorry forgot to disclaim that). I think my year was worth it, but I also (1) am at a "top tier" one and (2) am foreign, so can't do federal anyways. With the exceptions I noted above, I think generally a tier list might be (very generic and will also depend on practice, a heavy state law practice group will value more):Anonymous User wrote:OP, thanks for the thread and for the insight on tiers, that's really useful. My only concern is that I went to an event where a SSC justice spoke and a few people i spoke to were basically, "uhhh, no thanks." they just didn't think state court clerkships were worth the year i guess. If you (or others) had to do it all over again, would you clerk on the SSC vs say a really TTT district court (e.g, D. Kan. or N.D. West Va.)? For some reasons federal courts have a special gloss to them even, the TTTT ones. on the same note how would you evaluate a SSC vs. a flyover TTT CoA (CA3, CA8 etc.)?
Top tier CoA > top tier SSC = middle ground CoA > TTT CoA = Top tier District > SSC inside State > District inside state > District outside state > SSC outside state.
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
OP here. I graduated top 5 % from an upper T14 so my decision to do an SSC clerkship was very deliberate.
I’m not concerned about hurting my chances at super elite lit firms and many clerks for my justice have gone on to such firms. And as I said I’m going on to clerk for the court of appeals.
I wouldn’t do a flyover district clerkship. It’s unimaginably boring. Mostly small bore diversity cases and random meth criminal charges.
I’m not concerned about hurting my chances at super elite lit firms and many clerks for my justice have gone on to such firms. And as I said I’m going on to clerk for the court of appeals.
I wouldn’t do a flyover district clerkship. It’s unimaginably boring. Mostly small bore diversity cases and random meth criminal charges.
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
Op here again: want to state my strong disagreement with the so called tiers laid out by the other SSC clerk.
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
Whether SSC is better/worse than random DCt is going to depend a lot on your goals. Do you want to get the chance to research and write about undecided legal issues or do you want some exposure to the nitty gritty of litigation? Are you planning to practice in the state/district? Do you have any interest in going AUSA in the future? Would you have to move and do you want to live in that city for a year? How big is the pay difference and what’s your financial situation? Who would you be clerking for and what doors can they open? Are you going to a firm after and what would they prefer?
I think a lot of people will knee-jerk react that federal is always “better” than SSC, and sure, there’s a general federal > state prestige factor. But there are absolutely individual SSC justices who’ll carry a shinier luster than some federal judges, based on either their jurisdiction or personal qualifications. A good mentor is worth way more than a shitty mentor (this isn’t always easy to figure out ahead of time, but if you can). If you know you want to work in city X, a SSC justice in that city is arguably going to be more helpful than a DCt judge half the country away with no connections. If you want to be an AUSA down the line, though, a federal clerkship will be more valuable. If you’re interested in appellate work, the SSC will arguably be more valuable. (I’d even say SSC could be better if you’re looking to teach writing or write about the law in future, though that’s sort of debatable.)
So I think the “uhhhh, no thanks” reaction is short sighted and condescending. But that said, if you’re at a school where a reasonable amount of people get federal COA gigs, maybe it’s not a surprising reaction. Personally my school placed a lot more people in state clerkships than federal ones, so I got trained to appreciate them. And they can be a stepping stone to a better federal clerkship, too.
I think a lot of people will knee-jerk react that federal is always “better” than SSC, and sure, there’s a general federal > state prestige factor. But there are absolutely individual SSC justices who’ll carry a shinier luster than some federal judges, based on either their jurisdiction or personal qualifications. A good mentor is worth way more than a shitty mentor (this isn’t always easy to figure out ahead of time, but if you can). If you know you want to work in city X, a SSC justice in that city is arguably going to be more helpful than a DCt judge half the country away with no connections. If you want to be an AUSA down the line, though, a federal clerkship will be more valuable. If you’re interested in appellate work, the SSC will arguably be more valuable. (I’d even say SSC could be better if you’re looking to teach writing or write about the law in future, though that’s sort of debatable.)
So I think the “uhhhh, no thanks” reaction is short sighted and condescending. But that said, if you’re at a school where a reasonable amount of people get federal COA gigs, maybe it’s not a surprising reaction. Personally my school placed a lot more people in state clerkships than federal ones, so I got trained to appreciate them. And they can be a stepping stone to a better federal clerkship, too.
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
That said, I think flyover federal clerkships are worth it, too. /shrug (May have something to do with that I was *not* top 5% at a T14 though.)
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
OP, would you mind laying out your tiers?Anonymous User wrote:Op here again: want to state my strong disagreement with the so called tiers laid out by the other SSC clerk.
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Re: SSC Clerk Taking Questions
OP here. The hierarchy is entirely judge dependent and also depends on what you want to do post clerkship. For example, my SSC Judge has sent clerks on to SCOTUS before and is extremely well connected politically. So if you want to leverage that clerking for her/him is way better than a random federal CoA judge. But conversely the SSC clerkship carries much less weight with elite lit firms than a random federal CoA would. So know your goals and proceed accordingly.
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