Movement Today Forum

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know the typical number of callbacks judges give per open position? Do most keep it at closer to a 2:1 ratio? Or is it a lot higher?

Entirely judge dependent. In one chambers where I worked, the judge brought in 8 people for 2 spots every year and didn’t call anyone to make an offer until s/he had met with all 8. In the other, the judge only brought in people s/he wanted to hire—getting the clerkship was by no means a gimme if you got the interview, but if you didn’t get it, it meant you didn’t interview as well as we had hoped.

Rumor has it one district court judge interviewed 22 candidates for 2 spots.

I interviewed with a senior circuit judge who interviewed 20 candidates for 2 spots...

[Anonymous User]

Any ND/CD Cal updates? Carter, Chhabria, Chen, Phillips? Or anyone, really?

[Anonymous User]

Any ND/CD Cal updates? Carter, Chhabria, Chen, Phillips? Or anyone, really?

Carter, Tigar, Kronstadt, and Donato have interviewed. I believe Chhabria has as well but not positive.

[Anonymous User]

Any ND/CD Cal updates? Carter, Chhabria, Chen, Phillips? Or anyone, really?

Carter, Tigar, Kronstadt, and Donato have interviewed. I believe Chhabria has as well but not positive.

Chhabria's filled at least one slot.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know the typical number of callbacks judges give per open position? Do most keep it at closer to a 2:1 ratio? Or is it a lot higher?

Entirely judge dependent. In one chambers where I worked, the judge brought in 8 people for 2 spots every year and didn’t call anyone to make an offer until s/he had met with all 8. In the other, the judge only brought in people s/he wanted to hire—getting the clerkship was by no means a gimme if you got the interview, but if you didn’t get it, it meant you didn’t interview as well as we had hoped.

Rumor has it one district court judge interviewed 22 candidates for 2 spots.

I interviewed with a senior circuit judge who interviewed 20 candidates for 2 spots...

This is what makes me feel so disheartened by this process. Spending tons of money to fly around the country for interviews, only to be asked the same 3-4 generic questions by the judge as they are asking everyone else. I know it’s bratty to complain when many aren’t getting interviews at all, but contrary to what you hear, it doesn’t necessarily get easier at the interview stage. It feels really tough to differentiate oneself.

[Anonymous User]

Any ND/CD Cal updates? Carter, Chhabria, Chen, Phillips? Or anyone, really?

Carter, Tigar, Kronstadt, and Donato have interviewed. I believe Chhabria has as well but not positive.

Oh and Selna has interviewed as well.

[Yehar]

Any movement amongst SDNY senior judges?

[Anonymous User]

Any ND/CD Cal updates? Carter, Chhabria, Chen, Phillips? Or anyone, really?

Carter, Tigar, Kronstadt, and Donato have interviewed. I believe Chhabria has as well but not positive.

Chhabria's filled at least one slot.

Tigar is full.

[Anonymous User]

Any word on DC Circuit? Wilkins?

[Anonymous User]

Any news on the new CA2 judges (Bianco and Park)?

[Anonymous User]

Any news on D. Mass judges? I know Saris is filled, and Gorton/Sorokin/Saylor/Young have moved. Are they filled? Any word on Talwani, Young, Woodlock, O' Toole, Hillman?

[Anonymous User]

Any word on DC Circuit? Wilkins?

Randolph has hired. Confirmed.

[Anonymous User]

Any movement amongst SDNY senior judges?

Marrero is currently interviewing.

[Anonymous User]

If you received an email/voicemail asking for an interview and days you were available, and you respond via email with those days, how long would you wait before following up to confirm receipt of your email, if you don't receive a response?

[Anonymous User]

Any ND/CD Cal updates? Carter, Chhabria, Chen, Phillips? Or anyone, really?

Koh filled her slots for 2020 last year. No idea on movement for 2021.

[Anonymous User]

Is it crazy to just keep sending out applications until I get an interview? To date, I have sent out ~125 applications (100 OSCAR + 25 email/paper) indiscriminately to district courts across the country. I have good but not great stats (T30 top 5% + LR), faculty connections are largely ambivalent to me getting a clerkship, and my clerkship office is useless, so I haven't had much success thus far. My internship this summer is likely not going to turn into full time employment and I was really hoping to get a clerkship to help with my long term career goals of becoming an AUSA. At what point should I give up and refocus my efforts on securing post-graduate employment? 300 applications... 400? It will be paper applications from here on out as I've reached my OSCAR limit, if that makes a difference. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated, as I have been struggling to get any actual advice.

[nixy]

Some of this is personal preference (? endurance?), but given that you're in the position you're in, I don't think it's crazy to keep applying at all. As long as they're clerkships you'd genuinely be interested in taking, the only limit is your time. I can't say if 300 or 400 or whatever is the right/magic number - it's more up to you and the energy you have.

That said, you should probably also be focusing on post-grad employment, at the same time. Re: clerking for AUSA, you can certainly clerk after working for a bit and that will provide the background you want. Plus applying with work experience can make you a stronger clerkship candidate, so you want to make sure that you're covered on that end of things. (I realize you're probably going the OCI route and there's still plenty of time for that and all, just wanted to throw that out there.)

[geedelman]

Is it crazy to just keep sending out applications until I get an interview? To date, I have sent out ~125 applications (100 OSCAR + 25 email/paper) indiscriminately to district courts across the country. I have good but not great stats (T30 top 5% + LR), faculty connections are largely ambivalent to me getting a clerkship, and my clerkship office is useless, so I haven't had much success thus far. My internship this summer is likely not going to turn into full time employment and I was really hoping to get a clerkship to help with my long term career goals of becoming an AUSA. At what point should I give up and refocus my efforts on securing post-graduate employment? 300 applications... 400? It will be paper applications from here on out as I've reached my OSCAR limit, if that makes a difference. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated, as I have been struggling to get any actual advice.

Don't forget you can withdraw applications from clerkships that you have applied to and are now filled, opening up more spots on OSCAR!

[mjb447]

Is it crazy to just keep sending out applications until I get an interview? To date, I have sent out ~125 applications (100 OSCAR + 25 email/paper) indiscriminately to district courts across the country. I have good but not great stats (T30 top 5% + LR), faculty connections are largely ambivalent to me getting a clerkship, and my clerkship office is useless, so I haven't had much success thus far. My internship this summer is likely not going to turn into full time employment and I was really hoping to get a clerkship to help with my long term career goals of becoming an AUSA. At what point should I give up and refocus my efforts on securing post-graduate employment? 300 applications... 400? It will be paper applications from here on out as I've reached my OSCAR limit, if that makes a difference. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated, as I have been struggling to get any actual advice.

Not crazy at all if you're clerkship-or-bust, although sometime before 300 or 400 applications I'd get someone with knowledge in this area to look at your materials again just to make sure there aren't any big red flags or see if anything can be improved upon. Filling your OSCAR spots + some paper apps is not uncommon, though - given how easy it is to apply on OSCAR and how many tools for filtering OSCAR apps there are, 100 apps doesn't get most people as far as you'd think. (Agree that it's a good idea to stay on top of filled spots and swap them out.)

I also agree with nixy - you don't really have to "give up" on your clerkship search to start also looking for post-grad employment. Clerking will still be there if you land another job first, and all you really need to be doing right now (for other jobs) is submitting your materials.

[Anonymous User]

If you're at the point where you're sending 300-400 apps, I'd maybe take a small step back and think about how to more effectively target a smaller number of judges. You absolutely should apply broad-based, but with your stats, I'm guessing you'll have higher chances of success if you do something that will affirmatively get your app pulled out of the pile. Make a smaller list-- say 20-30 judges-- that you're competitive for and would like working for based on their background. Have you actually asked professors to call for you and had them turn you down? If not, start by doing that-- or even seeing if they'll email. Then, find former clerks and hit them up to chat (esp alums of your school)-- sometimes, they'll offer to pass on your application. Finally, spend a *tiny* bit more time on the cover letters and emphasizing what in their backgrounds you find most compelling. There's a lot of other great advice in this thread about targeting apps, and based on my own clerkship search, I got interviews with the 4 judges I really hustled for, and got radio silence from the other +100 apps I sent out. Good luck!

[Anonymous User]

Seeking updates on Tallman (9th) and Kelly (8th)

Also wondering about Kelly.

[Anonymous User]

I interviewed with a Judge for a previous term, but didn't get it (though, I think the interview went well and the Judge and I seemed to get along). A few months ago their chambers emailed me, and asked me to apply if I was interested in the next vacancy. When we were emailing, I asked what their hiring timeline was, and I got a sense of the interview dates (which are coming up in the next week). I also thanked them for contacting me, and let them know that I was still interested and submitted my application on OSCAR. I haven't heard back from the chambers since. Would it be inappropriate for me to reach out to the person who contacted me and see where they are in the process?

Obviously, it was a pretty noncommittal email, and there are a lot of different factors that could lead to the Judge changing their mind or even just being delayed in the hiring process. But, I had a pretty decent recommender-connection to the Judge, so I also think it would be strange for them to reach out, but then be like jk, especially after having already rejected me once. Also, because they reached out to me, I feel like it wouldn't be totally inappropriate, and worst case scenario, they just confirm that they moved on to other candidates.

[Anonymous User]

If you're at the point where you're sending 300-400 apps, I'd maybe take a small step back and think about how to more effectively target a smaller number of judges. You absolutely should apply broad-based, but with your stats, I'm guessing you'll have higher chances of success if you do something that will affirmatively get your app pulled out of the pile. Make a smaller list-- say 20-30 judges-- that you're competitive for and would like working for based on their background. Have you actually asked professors to call for you and had them turn you down? If not, start by doing that-- or even seeing if they'll email. Then, find former clerks and hit them up to chat (esp alums of your school)-- sometimes, they'll offer to pass on your application. Finally, spend a *tiny* bit more time on the cover letters and emphasizing what in their backgrounds you find most compelling. There's a lot of other great advice in this thread about targeting apps, and based on my own clerkship search, I got interviews with the 4 judges I really hustled for, and got radio silence from the other +100 apps I sent out. Good luck!

I've asked all my reccomenders and most of my past professors to reach out to judges. Most didn't respond or responded and just ignored the request. 2 of my reccomenders stated they would reach out to a couple judges, but haven't heard anything from them since. I don't want to be annoying so I haven't really been pushy on the subject. My reccomenders have all been nice and cordial, their just not the type of faculty that are going to put in a ton of effort to help me get a clerkship. Maybe something will come of this, but probably not as I am pretty sure that the judges they had connections with are all actively interviewing/hiring.

I'll try reaching out to former clerks, that's a good idea. Was there anything else you did that you think helped get you interviews? I've been tailoring cover letters for the judges I am more interested in, but not sure if it's made much of a difference thus far. I'll probably just keep applying until I get really burnt out and then put it on hold for a while so I can try to get a job lined up for after graduation.

[Anonymous User]

If you're at the point where you're sending 300-400 apps, I'd maybe take a small step back and think about how to more effectively target a smaller number of judges. You absolutely should apply broad-based, but with your stats, I'm guessing you'll have higher chances of success if you do something that will affirmatively get your app pulled out of the pile. Make a smaller list-- say 20-30 judges-- that you're competitive for and would like working for based on their background. Have you actually asked professors to call for you and had them turn you down? If not, start by doing that-- or even seeing if they'll email. Then, find former clerks and hit them up to chat (esp alums of your school)-- sometimes, they'll offer to pass on your application. Finally, spend a *tiny* bit more time on the cover letters and emphasizing what in their backgrounds you find most compelling. There's a lot of other great advice in this thread about targeting apps, and based on my own clerkship search, I got interviews with the 4 judges I really hustled for, and got radio silence from the other +100 apps I sent out. Good luck!

I've asked all my reccomenders and most of my past professors to reach out to judges. Most didn't respond or responded and just ignored the request. 2 of my reccomenders stated they would reach out to a couple judges, but haven't heard anything from them since. I don't want to be annoying so I haven't really been pushy on the subject. My reccomenders have all been nice and cordial, but their just not the type of faculty that are going to put in a ton of effort to help me get a clerkship. Maybe something will come of this, but probably not as I am pretty sure that the judges they had connections with are all actively interviewing/hiring.

I'll try reaching out to former clerks, that's a good idea. Was there anything else you did that you think helped get you interviews? I've been tailoring cover letters for the judges I am more interested in, but not sure if it's made much of a difference thus far. I'll probably just keep applying until I get really burnt out and then put it on hold for a while so I can try to get a job lined up for after graduation.

Okay, so I'm going to say that now is the time to get at least a little pushy. If two of your recommenders said they'd do it, reach out to them again. Give them each like ~5 judges (in an email with chambers contact info, what you like about the judge and what you want the recommender to highlight). Ask if you can take them up on the offer and to please let you know when they've made the call. For people who didn't reply, if there's people you have good relationships with, reach out in person, tell them you're struggling and really want a clerkship and would appreciate any help they could give you. Based on my limited understanding of this process, unless you're at a T-3, your app won't get automatically read unless your credentials are stellar, so you could continue applying into the void, or you could now focus your efforts on getting people to really pull for you so that your app gets to the top of the pile. Obviously don't be obnoxious about it but I really do think that ultimately the clerkship process comes down to connections rather than merit for most people, and so this is really the time to make as much use of your connections as you can. This goes double when your recommenders have connections to judges. I got an interview with a judge I was absolutely not in the ballpark for gradeswise because one of my recommenders clerked with his wife and flagged my app for him.

Honestly, for me, I don't think I got interviews unless a professor called (which happened three times) or a clerk forwarded my app to the judge (which happened once). Talking to former clerks helped me both tailor my cover letter ("I talked to your former clerk, Joe Schmoe, who said what a stellar experience clerking for you was because XYZ and that really resonates w my own clerkship experience") and tell my recommenders what to flag in their calls (i.e. some judges love PI-heavy students, some judges want to know you'll do admin work willingly, some judges want people who are super independent, so on). Ideally, you would reach out to former clerks first for specifics, then send in a tailored app, then send out requests to your recommenders to make calls. It sucks that this process is so relationship-driven, but it is what it is. You'll get something in the end though! Don't give up in the meantime.

[Anonymous User]

If you're at the point where you're sending 300-400 apps, I'd maybe take a small step back and think about how to more effectively target a smaller number of judges. You absolutely should apply broad-based, but with your stats, I'm guessing you'll have higher chances of success if you do something that will affirmatively get your app pulled out of the pile. Make a smaller list-- say 20-30 judges-- that you're competitive for and would like working for based on their background. Have you actually asked professors to call for you and had them turn you down? If not, start by doing that-- or even seeing if they'll email. Then, find former clerks and hit them up to chat (esp alums of your school)-- sometimes, they'll offer to pass on your application. Finally, spend a *tiny* bit more time on the cover letters and emphasizing what in their backgrounds you find most compelling. There's a lot of other great advice in this thread about targeting apps, and based on my own clerkship search, I got interviews with the 4 judges I really hustled for, and got radio silence from the other +100 apps I sent out. Good luck!

I've asked all my reccomenders and most of my past professors to reach out to judges. Most didn't respond or responded and just ignored the request. 2 of my reccomenders stated they would reach out to a couple judges, but haven't heard anything from them since. I don't want to be annoying so I haven't really been pushy on the subject. My reccomenders have all been nice and cordial, but their just not the type of faculty that are going to put in a ton of effort to help me get a clerkship. Maybe something will come of this, but probably not as I am pretty sure that the judges they had connections with are all actively interviewing/hiring.

I'll try reaching out to former clerks, that's a good idea. Was there anything else you did that you think helped get you interviews? I've been tailoring cover letters for the judges I am more interested in, but not sure if it's made much of a difference thus far. I'll probably just keep applying until I get really burnt out and then put it on hold for a while so I can try to get a job lined up for after graduation.

Okay, so I'm going to say that now is the time to get at least a little pushy. If two of your recommenders said they'd do it, reach out to them again. Give them each like ~5 judges (in an email with chambers contact info, what you like about the judge and what you want the recommender to highlight). Ask if you can take them up on the offer and to please let you know when they've made the call. For people who didn't reply, if there's people you have good relationships with, reach out in person, tell them you're struggling and really want a clerkship and would appreciate any help they could give you. Based on my limited understanding of this process, unless you're at a T-3, your app won't get automatically read unless your credentials are stellar, so you could continue applying into the void, or you could now focus your efforts on getting people to really pull for you so that your app gets to the top of the pile. Obviously don't be obnoxious about it but I really do think that ultimately the clerkship process comes down to connections rather than merit for most people, and so this is really the time to make as much use of your connections as you can. This goes double when your recommenders have connections to judges. I got an interview with a judge I was absolutely not in the ballpark for gradeswise because one of my recommenders clerked with his wife and flagged my app for him.

Honestly, for me, I don't think I got interviews unless a professor called (which happened three times) or a clerk forwarded my app to the judge (which happened once). Talking to former clerks helped me both tailor my cover letter ("I talked to your former clerk, Joe Schmoe, who said what a stellar experience clerking for you was because XYZ and that really resonates w my own clerkship experience") and tell my recommenders what to flag in their calls (i.e. some judges love PI-heavy students, some judges want to know you'll do admin work willingly, some judges want people who are super independent, so on). Ideally, you would reach out to former clerks first for specifics, then send in a tailored app, then send out requests to your recommenders to make calls. It sucks that this process is so relationship-driven, but it is what it is. You'll get something in the end though! Don't give up in the meantime.

Thanks for the advice, best of luck with the rest of your applications/interviews!