Movement Today

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Movement Today

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:40 am

Could anyone who was around for the last Plan speak to the process for today? I understand that judges get access to 2L students applications today. Should we expect interviews to be given today or later this week? Obviously, it will vary by chambers, but I guess I'm curious what the process was last time. I imagine (at least), the 9th Circuit judges will want to extend interviews before their big powwow in SF later this month.

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Re: Movement Today

Postby nixy » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:03 am

I was around for the previous plan (though I didn't apply on it, personally), but the descriptions I saw did include judges calling up on the first day the applications opened, in a pretty stressful way - candidates worrying about missing calls, or trying to strategically let calls go to voicemail so they could speak to their preferred judges first, and trying to schedule interviews so that they could meet with their preferred judges as soon as possible.

I have no idea if that will be the case today, though. I suppose in part it will depend on 1) what a chambers has going on (if a court is in trial today they're probably not going to drop everything and review applications?) and 2) how thoroughly they want to review applications (if OSCAR literally doesn't let them look at apps until today, they're going to need some time to develop a pool, although I suppose they may do quite a lot of filtering of apps based on things like school/GPA that don't require close review?). But I would imagine there will be calls today/this week. My experience has been that a judge who's looking to hire will move on an app quickly once they've seen it, and it seems reasonable that many judges who've signed on to the Plan are organizing their hiring around the Plan dates.

But really, who knows? I'm curious to see how it turns out.

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Re: Movement Today

Postby HillandHollow » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:40 am

We were able to review all non-2Ls this whole time, so for most of those people, the initial cull has already occurred.
2L apps will become available for all chambers who received any at noon (EDT).
It's pretty impossible to answer your timeline question. Some judges will have a ton of 2L apps to go through, some won't. Some judges will be very interested in moving as quickly as possible, some will not. I'd expect that most judges who are abiding by the Plan are going to start making calls within the next week or two, but I don't have any actual data to support that expectation.

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Re: Movement Today

Postby kiwi50 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:09 pm

I didn't realize apps didn't go live until noon today. I haven't received any contact yet, so this is super helpful - thank you!

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Re: Movement Today

Postby HillandHollow » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:16 pm

follow-up: we got WAY more than we expected--like hundreds more. OSCAR doesn't give you any sense of how many 2Ls have been applying, so when they released the actual apps, it was a complete shock. We were intending to basically go through all the 2L apps and merge them into our short lists from non-2L apps within a day or two, but I'm not sure it's possible now. Be patient on your end with any chambers you applied to.

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Re: Movement Today

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Could anyone who was around for the last Plan speak to the process for today? I understand that judges get access to 2L students applications today. Should we expect interviews to be given today or later this week? Obviously, it will vary by chambers, but I guess I'm curious what the process was last time. I imagine (at least), the 9th Circuit judges will want to extend interviews before their big powwow in SF later this month.


(Note to Mods: Posting this anon for obvious reasons.) At least some CA2 chambers are churning through the apps released today and scheduling interviews for this week, with the intention of finalizing offers by end of this week. Calls are going out now; I would be very attentive in responding to calls/emails ASAP if you're interested in clerking on CA2, esp. in Manhattan.

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Re: Movement Today

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Could anyone who was around for the last Plan speak to the process for today? I understand that judges get access to 2L students applications today. Should we expect interviews to be given today or later this week? Obviously, it will vary by chambers, but I guess I'm curious what the process was last time. I imagine (at least), the 9th Circuit judges will want to extend interviews before their big powwow in SF later this month.


(Note to Mods: Posting this anon for obvious reasons.) At least some CA2 chambers are churning through the apps released today and scheduling interviews for this week, with the intention of finalizing offers by end of this week. Calls are going out now; I would be very attentive in responding to calls/emails ASAP if you're interested in clerking on CA2, esp. in Manhattan.

My non-2/9/DC COA chambers is also churning through apps today and will be making calls imminently.

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Re: Movement Today

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Could anyone who was around for the last Plan speak to the process for today? I understand that judges get access to 2L students applications today. Should we expect interviews to be given today or later this week? Obviously, it will vary by chambers, but I guess I'm curious what the process was last time. I imagine (at least), the 9th Circuit judges will want to extend interviews before their big powwow in SF later this month.


(Note to Mods: Posting this anon for obvious reasons.) At least some CA2 chambers are churning through the apps released today and scheduling interviews for this week, with the intention of finalizing offers by end of this week. Calls are going out now; I would be very attentive in responding to calls/emails ASAP if you're interested in clerking on CA2, esp. in Manhattan.

My non-2/9/DC COA chambers is also churning through apps today and will be making calls imminently.


Any word on District Courts anywhere? Our career office told us to be ready for anything, but so far it seems like no one has heard anything

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Re: Movement Today

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Could anyone who was around for the last Plan speak to the process for today? I understand that judges get access to 2L students applications today. Should we expect interviews to be given today or later this week? Obviously, it will vary by chambers, but I guess I'm curious what the process was last time. I imagine (at least), the 9th Circuit judges will want to extend interviews before their big powwow in SF later this month.


(Note to Mods: Posting this anon for obvious reasons.) At least some CA2 chambers are churning through the apps released today and scheduling interviews for this week, with the intention of finalizing offers by end of this week. Calls are going out now; I would be very attentive in responding to calls/emails ASAP if you're interested in clerking on CA2, esp. in Manhattan.

My non-2/9/DC COA chambers is also churning through apps today and will be making calls imminently.


Any word on District Courts anywhere? Our career office told us to be ready for anything, but so far it seems like no one has heard anything


SDNY and DDC judges are making calls.

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Re: Movement Today

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:11 pm

all of them, or only some?

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Re: Movement Today

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:20 pm

Should one take a lack of/low levels of contact today as a cue to send more applications out?

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Re: Movement Today

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:23 pm

I think today was spent organizing the apps received. I'm sure calls will be going out by Wednesday. The judges have supposedly only had access to the apps for just over 5 hours at this point.

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Re: Movement Today

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I think today was spent organizing the apps received. I'm sure calls will be going out by Wednesday. The judges have supposedly only had access to the apps for just over 5 hours at this point.


Calls have been going out today in at least some chambers in New York.

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Re: Movement Today

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:20 pm

Is most of the rapid movement today just for 2020 hiring or are judges also moving quickly with 2021 hiring?

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Re: Movement Today

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:28 pm

2021 as well

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Re: Movement Today

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:35 pm

CA9 clerk here, we spent all day on this and are going to be making calls today or early tomorrow.

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Re: Movement Today

Postby Wild Card » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:CA9 clerk here, we spent all day on this and are going to be making calls today or early tomorrow.


Just curious: how many applications did you receive and how many invitations will you extend?

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Re: Movement Today

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:37 pm

Have heard of people getting calls today from DDC, 2d Cir, and multiple non-2/9/DC CoAs.

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Re: Movement Today

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:02 pm

Calls went out in the Fifth. Cuts were clinical with the vast majority of apps not getting read which apparently is the norm and, quite honestly, deflating for applicants who put in the time to craft an OSCAR package. Sorted by school and grades before cover letters etc. were looked at.

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Re: Movement Today

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:12 pm

As current clerks, what tips do you have for the applicants seeing how the process is actually turning out?

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Re: Movement Today

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Could anyone who was around for the last Plan speak to the process for today? I understand that judges get access to 2L students applications today. Should we expect interviews to be given today or later this week? Obviously, it will vary by chambers, but I guess I'm curious what the process was last time. I imagine (at least), the 9th Circuit judges will want to extend interviews before their big powwow in SF later this month.


The 9th Circuit is actually in SF together right now, and I've heard at least some judges are planning to hold interviews there this week (presumably to make it easier for people who are traveling and have interviews with multiple judges).

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Re: Movement Today

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Calls went out in the Fifth. Cuts were clinical with the vast majority of apps not getting read which apparently is the norm and, quite honestly, deflating for applicants who put in the time to craft an OSCAR package. Sorted by school and grades before cover letters etc. were looked at.


Anonymous User wrote:As current clerks, what tips do you have for the applicants seeing how the process is actually turning out?


No real tips to impart aside from the ones you've probably already heard, but I'll offer some observations.

1. You have a moderately higher chance of securing an interview as an alum with work experience (if the other factors are there) than as a law school student. Apps that trickle in on OSCAR or email got a closer read just because it was a more manageable workflow. I think CSO/clerkship committees are doing students a disservice by characterizing these jobs as ones primarily geared towards law school students. Alumni (whether from a firm or other clerkship (doesn't matter what level or whether it was state etc.)) have a distinct edge from a comfort (ie. we don't have to train you from the ground up and you've had at least one boss before coming to us) and application standpoint. I think the new hiring plan will end up benefitting alums more with judges who aren't dead-set on hiring a full crew of law school graduates because of the way applications trickle in.

2. If you want cold comfort if you don't get any interest this cycle, look at the OSCAR hiring statistics per circuit and then per district. They are sobering. Being offered an interview is an honor. Being offered the job is an even bigger one considering the sheer volume of applications and the fact that honestly your application is not getting the attention it deserves.

3. It's an insider's game. Between professors and others making calls, e-mails, etc. the average applicant who does not have someone advocating for them is at a distinct disadvantage of being shut out because the application never gets read. Same with the never-ending obsession with prestige. It's true that some great candidates fell through the cracks because they were screened out based on their school. Same goes for those not on law review. And, in my view, that's not fair to applicants from outside the T-14, decided to pursue moot court instead of a journal/secondary journal vs. law review, or just had a bad 1L year.

4. I do think the process should be more drawn out somehow to make hiring more equitable so applications actually get read. Maybe eliminate OSCAR altogether and return to a paper app system to reduce overall numbers (thinking out loud here). And this is clearly a personal preference that I've thought about most of the day...but I don't believe term clerks should be tasked with culling the pile(s). Career clerks/judges should be hands-on in assessing applications with their preferences in hand rather than running initial assessment decisions through clerks who aren't seasoned at doing so.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Movement Today

Postby timmyd » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Calls went out in the Fifth. Cuts were clinical with the vast majority of apps not getting read which apparently is the norm and, quite honestly, deflating for applicants who put in the time to craft an OSCAR package. Sorted by school and grades before cover letters etc. were looked at.


Anonymous User wrote:As current clerks, what tips do you have for the applicants seeing how the process is actually turning out?


No real tips to impart aside from the ones you've probably already heard, but I'll offer some observations.

1. You have a moderately higher chance of securing an interview as an alum with work experience (if the other factors are there) than as a law school student. Apps that trickle in on OSCAR or email got a closer read just because it was a more manageable workflow. I think CSO/clerkship committees are doing students a disservice by characterizing these jobs as ones primarily geared towards law school students. Alumni (whether from a firm or other clerkship (doesn't matter what level or whether it was state etc.)) have a distinct edge from a comfort (ie. we don't have to train you from the ground up and you've had at least one boss before coming to us) and application standpoint. I think the new hiring plan will end up benefitting alums more with judges who aren't dead-set on hiring a full crew of law school graduates because of the way applications trickle in.

2. If you want cold comfort if you don't get any interest this cycle, look at the OSCAR hiring statistics per circuit and then per district. They are sobering. Being offered an interview is an honor. Being offered the job is an even bigger one considering the sheer volume of applications and the fact that honestly your application is not getting the attention it deserves.

3. It's an insider's game. Between professors and others making calls, e-mails, etc. the average applicant who does not have someone advocating for them is at a distinct disadvantage of being shut out because the application never gets read. Same with the never-ending obsession with prestige. It's true that some great candidates fell through the cracks because they were screened out based on their school. Same goes for those not on law review.

4. I do think the process should be more drawn out somehow to make hiring more equitable so applications actually get read. Maybe eliminate OSCAR altogether and return to a paper app system to reduce overall numbers (thinking out loud here). And this is clearly a personal preference that I've thought about most of the day...but I don't believe term clerks should be tasked with culling the pile(s). Career clerks/judges should be hands-on in assessing applications with their preferences in hand rather than running initial assessment decision through clerks who aren't seasoned at doing so.

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Re: Movement Today

Postby timmyd » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Calls went out in the Fifth. Cuts were clinical with the vast majority of apps not getting read which apparently is the norm and, quite honestly, deflating for applicants who put in the time to craft an OSCAR package. Sorted by school and grades before cover letters etc. were looked at.


Anonymous User wrote:As current clerks, what tips do you have for the applicants seeing how the process is actually turning out?


No real tips to impart aside from the ones you've probably already heard, but I'll offer some observations.

1. You have a moderately higher chance of securing an interview as an alum with work experience (if the other factors are there) than as a law school student. Apps that trickle in on OSCAR or email got a closer read just because it was a more manageable workflow. I think CSO/clerkship committees are doing students a disservice by characterizing these jobs as ones primarily geared towards law school students. Alumni (whether from a firm or other clerkship (doesn't matter what level or whether it was state etc.)) have a distinct edge from a comfort (ie. we don't have to train you from the ground up and you've had at least one boss before coming to us) and application standpoint. I think the new hiring plan will end up benefitting alums more with judges who aren't dead-set on hiring a full crew of law school graduates because of the way applications trickle in.

2. If you want cold comfort if you don't get any interest this cycle, look at the OSCAR hiring statistics per circuit and then per district. They are sobering. Being offered an interview is an honor. Being offered the job is an even bigger one considering the sheer volume of applications and the fact that honestly your application is not getting the attention it deserves.

3. It's an insider's game. Between professors and others making calls, e-mails, etc. the average applicant who does not have someone advocating for them is at a distinct disadvantage of being shut out because the application never gets read. Same with the never-ending obsession with prestige. It's true that some great candidates fell through the cracks because they were screened out based on their school. Same goes for those not on law review.

4. I do think the process should be more drawn out somehow to make hiring more equitable so applications actually get read. Maybe eliminate OSCAR altogether and return to a paper app system to reduce overall numbers (thinking out loud here). And this is clearly a personal preference that I've thought about most of the day...but I don't believe term clerks should be tasked with culling the pile(s). Career clerks/judges should be hands-on in assessing applications with their preferences in hand rather than running initial assessment decision through clerks who aren't seasoned at doing so.


Are you at COA or district level? Im not trying to turn this into a chance me thread, just genuinely don’t want to waste the time making many apps when my app wouldn’t be looked at. I was like top 15% at UT without law review. But I’ve already clerked at the district level and magistrate level with some private practice experience as well...only looking at district.

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Re: Movement Today

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:43 pm

timmyd wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Calls went out in the Fifth. Cuts were clinical with the vast majority of apps not getting read which apparently is the norm and, quite honestly, deflating for applicants who put in the time to craft an OSCAR package. Sorted by school and grades before cover letters etc. were looked at.


Anonymous User wrote:As current clerks, what tips do you have for the applicants seeing how the process is actually turning out?


No real tips to impart aside from the ones you've probably already heard, but I'll offer some observations.

1. You have a moderately higher chance of securing an interview as an alum with work experience (if the other factors are there) than as a law school student. Apps that trickle in on OSCAR or email got a closer read just because it was a more manageable workflow. I think CSO/clerkship committees are doing students a disservice by characterizing these jobs as ones primarily geared towards law school students. Alumni (whether from a firm or other clerkship (doesn't matter what level or whether it was state etc.)) have a distinct edge from a comfort (ie. we don't have to train you from the ground up and you've had at least one boss before coming to us) and application standpoint. I think the new hiring plan will end up benefitting alums more with judges who aren't dead-set on hiring a full crew of law school graduates because of the way applications trickle in.

2. If you want cold comfort if you don't get any interest this cycle, look at the OSCAR hiring statistics per circuit and then per district. They are sobering. Being offered an interview is an honor. Being offered the job is an even bigger one considering the sheer volume of applications and the fact that honestly your application is not getting the attention it deserves.

3. It's an insider's game. Between professors and others making calls, e-mails, etc. the average applicant who does not have someone advocating for them is at a distinct disadvantage of being shut out because the application never gets read. Same with the never-ending obsession with prestige. It's true that some great candidates fell through the cracks because they were screened out based on their school. Same goes for those not on law review.

4. I do think the process should be more drawn out somehow to make hiring more equitable so applications actually get read. Maybe eliminate OSCAR altogether and return to a paper app system to reduce overall numbers (thinking out loud here). And this is clearly a personal preference that I've thought about most of the day...but I don't believe term clerks should be tasked with culling the pile(s). Career clerks/judges should be hands-on in assessing applications with their preferences in hand rather than running initial assessment decision through clerks who aren't seasoned at doing so.


Are you at COA or district level? Im not trying to turn this into a chance me thread, just genuinely don’t want to waste the time making many apps when my app wouldn’t be looked at. I was like top 15% at UT without law review. But I’ve already clerked at the district level and magistrate level with some private practice experience as well...only looking at district.


COA with prior court experience and have seen both sides now. I'm a firm believer that the "chance-me" clerkship threads on here are pointless because it applies a law-firm hiring construct to a more intimate/idiosyncratic hiring process at the interview stage. Having said that, we'd screen out a non law review candidate unless your judge wrote on your behalf on both levels. That might get your file flagged for a closer review. And I'm not intentionally trying to be cold, I wish the process was overhauled.



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