Two Clerkship Interviews on the Same Day Forum

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Two Clerkship Interviews on the Same Day

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:01 pm

I have two clerkship interviews on the same court on the same day. I prefer the judge I am interviewing with second to the first. However, I have heard that the second judge will allow the first to offer me first (if he wants) since he was the first to offer me an interview at all. The chambers are in contact about my interview schedule and they both know they are both interviewing me. I also only got the second interview because I landed the first.

If given an offer from the first judge, is it reasonable to ask if I may have some time since he knows I interviewed with his colleagues and I would like to consider both options to make a fully informed decision? Obviously, then, the second judge can offer me or not, but is that a no-no to do to the first judge?

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Re: Two Clerkship Interviews on the Same Day

Post by objctnyrhnr » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:37 pm

A buddy of mine went through something similar. In that scenario, the judges conferred and my sense is that they both liked him but the more junior judge gave senior judge first crack. Then common wisdom of course if you get a clerkship offer you accept, period.

So I would assume that the judges have it handled and I wouldn’t try to mess with their process. If you get an offer, I would just take the first offer. This isn’t law form lateraling—I’m just not sure this is something you want to mess with tbh.

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Re: Two Clerkship Interviews on the Same Day

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:46 pm

I forgot to mention that the second judge is being appointed to a more desirable city and a higher court. He would likely be confirmed before my clerkship begins.

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Re: Two Clerkship Interviews on the Same Day

Post by nixy » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:53 pm

objctnyrhnr wrote:A buddy of mine went through something similar. In that scenario, the judges conferred and my sense is that they both liked him but the more junior judge gave senior judge first crack. Then common wisdom of course if you get a clerkship offer you accept, period.

So I would assume that the judges have it handled and I wouldn’t try to mess with their process. If you get an offer, I would just take the first offer. This isn’t law form lateraling—I’m just not sure this is something you want to mess with tbh.
Yeah, I've heard of a similar thing. It's possible that since the two judges have already discussed this and know both are interviewing you, they may want to discuss it after the interviews and decide then who (if either) makes an offer after you interview with both. But that's speculation, obviously.

I actually had judges offer me time to make the decision, and I think a lot of judges actually do take some time to think about it/compare candidates. But I think if a judge is going to do that they will make a point of telling you so, so not sure how asking would go over.

I did want to add, though, that I don't quite agree with "you accept, period." If after the interview you feel you couldn't actually work with the judge I think it's fair to turn it down - I don't think you're obligated to accept if you see red flags or serious problems in the interview. (If the match is that bad you're not likely to get an offer, but you never know, hiring is weird.)

However, I agree to the extent that you should accept rather than play for time to hear from someone else/play offers against each other, that kind of thing. And frankly the second judge here sounds less invested in interviewing you, so if the first judge offers (and you don't see red flags other than wanting the other judge), I think you should take it. If they've already agreed that the first judge will get first crack at you, and that judge makes you an offer, you won't know whether the second judge wanted to hire you but deferred, or just didn't want to hire you at all, and you don't know if the second judge would be offended that you turned down the first judge and not hire you for that reason. So you definitely run the risk of getting nothing.

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Re: Two Clerkship Interviews on the Same Day

Post by objctnyrhnr » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:22 pm

nixy wrote:
objctnyrhnr wrote:A buddy of mine went through something similar. In that scenario, the judges conferred and my sense is that they both liked him but the more junior judge gave senior judge first crack. Then common wisdom of course if you get a clerkship offer you accept, period.

So I would assume that the judges have it handled and I wouldn’t try to mess with their process. If you get an offer, I would just take the first offer. This isn’t law form lateraling—I’m just not sure this is something you want to mess with tbh.
Yeah, I've heard of a similar thing. It's possible that since the two judges have already discussed this and know both are interviewing you, they may want to discuss it after the interviews and decide then who (if either) makes an offer after you interview with both. But that's speculation, obviously.

I actually had judges offer me time to make the decision, and I think a lot of judges actually do take some time to think about it/compare candidates. But I think if a judge is going to do that they will make a point of telling you so, so not sure how asking would go over.

I did want to add, though, that I don't quite agree with "you accept, period." If after the interview you feel you couldn't actually work with the judge I think it's fair to turn it down - I don't think you're obligated to accept if you see red flags or serious problems in the interview. (If the match is that bad you're not likely to get an offer, but you never know, hiring is weird.)

However, I agree to the extent that you should accept rather than play for time to hear from someone else/play offers against each other, that kind of thing. And frankly the second judge here sounds less invested in interviewing you, so if the first judge offers (and you don't see red flags other than wanting the other judge), I think you should take it. If they've already agreed that the first judge will get first crack at you, and that judge makes you an offer, you won't know whether the second judge wanted to hire you but deferred, or just didn't want to hire you at all, and you don't know if the second judge would be offended that you turned down the first judge and not hire you for that reason. So you definitely run the risk of getting nothing.
Agree 100%. good point. My initial statement there was a tad too strong. I second nixys take here.

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nixy

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Re: Two Clerkship Interviews on the Same Day

Post by nixy » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:55 am

I should have said, too, I didn't think you actually meant that, but mentioned it just to be clear.

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Re: Two Clerkship Interviews on the Same Day

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:15 pm

This is all super helpful. What if to the second judge, at the end of the interview, I left him know that he is my first choice and ask if he would like for me to let him know if I receive offers from any other judges?

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Re: Two Clerkship Interviews on the Same Day

Post by nixy » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:40 pm

Again, I suspect the judges themselves will have worked out a system and will tell you what they expect, and you won't need to actually bring this up. But I don't think you need to ask if he'd like you to tell him if you get other offers. Either

1) he will give you an offer at the end of the interview or before you get another offer, and this will all be moot;

2) he will reject you before you get another offer and it's all moot; or

3) you will get another offer before he either offers you or rejects you. That offer may require you to respond right away, in which case this is again all moot (if you accept, Favorite Judge's interest is moot; if you turn it down in the hopes that Favorite Judge will hire you, calling up Favorite Judge to say you rejected another judge isn't going to look good). Or the offer may include time to think about it, in which case, if you're still more interested in Favorite judge, it's just assumed that you would call him to update him on the offer; I don't think you need to ask his permission to do so.

I also don't think there's a way to say "you're my first choice" without sounding kind of weird, but if you can work out a way to do so, feel free. The problem here is that it sounds like he's your first choice because he's going to a fancier court in a better city, but he's been at the less-fancy court/less good city himself for a while, so it's a little hard to say you really really want to be at the other court/city without dissing his current court/city (plus he could tell the other judge that you don't really want to be in the less good court/city, which might offend the other judge).

Mostly, I just don't think saying that a particular judge is your first choice really moves the needle on what they think of you - I'm just not sure what it adds. I think judges pretty much assume that if you're applying and interviewing you want the position. If they like you enough to be that concerned about your preferences, they already want to make you an offer.

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Re: Two Clerkship Interviews on the Same Day

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:51 pm

I had a similar situation when I interviewed, although not quite as extreme: interviews with judges on neighboring courts on back-to-back days. The judges each knew the other was interviewing me, and my first interview was with the judge who contacted me first. S/he made me an offer on the spot to get ahead of the second judge, but encouraged me to meet with the second judge and pick whoever was a better fit for me with a promise there would be no hard feelings. The first judge had been my preferred choice all along and my experience during the interview had been positive enough that I accepted on the spot and cancelled the second interview.

I think my judge might be an outlier in how accommodating s/he was, but because your judges sit on the same court and have spoken to one another about you I'd really like to think that neither would make you an exploding offer or would be too upset if you chose the other judge. There's a norm of professional courtesy on the bench and neither of these two will want to irritate a colleague over this. So I'd encourage you to interview with both, even if you get an offer on the spot from the first judge.

Also: your judge's potential promotion is a huge issue here. You'll want to clarify that the judge is interested in hiring you regardless of whether the promotion goes through or not. I'd say that if the promotion is state supreme/appellate court to federal COA, you'll almost automatically want to take federal COA (over the other judge who is remaining on state court). If it's federal district to COA, or state supreme/appellate to federal district, that's more of a question of which type of clerkship you'd rather have---a trial and appellate court clerkship are very different beasts and you shouldn't pick one over the other because of "prestige."

You should also consider the possibility that the judges are thinking about offering you a "package deal" clerkship where you clerk for them in back-to-back years (on the court you're interviewing for and then the court that the judge is going to be promoted to).

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Re: Two Clerkship Interviews on the Same Day

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:03 pm

This is amazing. These responses are so detailed and you all are great. I think I will just accept the first offer I get. However, a back-to-back package (if either will defer me a year if I am lucky enough to get both) would be awesome.

Thank you all so much.

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