Volunteer Law Clerks Not Law Clerks Forum

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Volunteer Law Clerks Not Law Clerks

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:02 pm

I know that there has been some discussion on these forums regarding whether volunteer law clerks are/should be treated the same as term or permanent law clerks, including whether they should be listing their official title as "law clerk" or "volunteer law clerk" on their resumes. So, I thought this might be helpful for future reference.

Our circuit received an email recently in which Judges were informed that individuals who work for chambers on a volunteer (i.e., non-paid) basis, including volunteer law clerks, are prohibited from listing their official title as "law clerk," volunteer law clerk," or any derivation thereof on resumes (or similar employment documents). The email cited to the Guide to Judiciary Policy as the basis for the rule. Judges were also instructed to warn any applicable individuals that HR has and will continue to refuse to verify the employment of someone as a law clerk who describes him or herself as having served as a volunteer law clerk, even if that individual had responsibilities co-extensive with those of permanent and/or term law clerks. The email warns that failure to abide by the Judiciary Policy constitutes a violation of the policy and misrepresentation.

Interesting.

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axel.foley

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Re: Volunteer Law Clerks Not Law Clerks

Post by axel.foley » Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:51 pm

More evidence that the idea of a volunteer law clerk is ridiculous. The only situation where it makes sense is for non-US citizens who really want to clerk.
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Skool

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Re: Volunteer Law Clerks Not Law Clerks

Post by Skool » Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:07 pm

It’s not ridiculous with the right judge, supervision, and assignments when you can’t get a paying job in your jurisdiction.

It’s kind of shitty that the judiciary is giving volunteers a hard time over a fucking title. The only thing this accomplishes is maintain the prestige of clerkships. People who land paid A3 clerkships are going to be ok even with a little credential inflation caused by “volunteers” law clerks”
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Wild Card

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Re: Volunteer Law Clerks Not Law Clerks

Post by Wild Card » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:37 pm

Thank you for sharing this important information with us.

Some judges have insisted that "volunteer" law clerks are treated exactly the same as law clerks.

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Re: Volunteer Law Clerks Not Law Clerks

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:25 pm

Who sent the email? That's a pretty shitty way of handling it. As an A3 law clerk, I think it's silly to try and take away the law clerk title from volunteers. For some courts, they give the paid clerks a decent QoL by helping better spread the caseload. If they're doing the same work, they deserve the title. At the end of the day, though, that's the judge's call.

If this is an HR email, I have to laugh. I can't imagine that many A3 judges give a single crap about what HR thinks on that topic. HR can refuse to verify, but I have no doubt the judge would. And the judge's opinion is the one that actually matters. I'm not the sort of person who looks down on HR or anyone else who works at the courts. I appreciate what they do. However, that is a craptastic, petty, and insulting policy. If that is an HR policy, I think they might be regretting that approach soon. I can't imagine that the judges who value their volunteer clerks took that email too well. And if there's one thing you don't want to do while working for the court, it's piss off the guys with life tenure.

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esther0123

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Re: Volunteer Law Clerks Not Law Clerks

Post by esther0123 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:13 pm

Could you disclose which circuit this was?
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minnbills

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Re: Volunteer Law Clerks Not Law Clerks

Post by minnbills » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:38 pm

Wow that's a really awful thing for this circuit to do.

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Re: Volunteer Law Clerks Not Law Clerks

Post by esther0123 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Who sent the email? That's a pretty shitty way of handling it. As an A3 law clerk, I think it's silly to try and take away the law clerk title from volunteers. For some courts, they give the paid clerks a decent QoL by helping better spread the caseload. If they're doing the same work, they deserve the title. At the end of the day, though, that's the judge's call.

If this is an HR email, I have to laugh. I can't imagine that many A3 judges give a single crap about what HR thinks on that topic. HR can refuse to verify, but I have no doubt the judge would. And the judge's opinion is the one that actually matters. I'm not the sort of person who looks down on HR or anyone else who works at the courts. I appreciate what they do. However, that is a craptastic, petty, and insulting policy. If that is an HR policy, I think they might be regretting that approach soon. I can't imagine that the judges who value their volunteer clerks took that email too well. And if there's one thing you don't want to do while working for the court, it's piss off the guys with life tenure.
I agree with this. I can't see a federal judge giving much thought about an administrative policy and the judge has discretion in how he/she wants to run his/her chambers. If the judge has hired the individual as a clerk, volunteer or not, and is fine with that individual representing himself/herself as a law clerk, I can't see a reason why there should be any problem.

Person1111

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Re: Volunteer Law Clerks Not Law Clerks

Post by Person1111 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:16 pm

In addition to being a shitty and unnecessary rule, it also appears to be unsupported by the Guide to Judiciary Policy, which expressly recognizes that volunteer employees are nonetheless employees subject to the same employment restrictions as compensated employees:
It is also important to stress that the application of the Employees’ Code to interns, externs, or other volunteer court employees affects other aspects of their conduct, and affects the conduct of the judges who use their services. In particular, volunteer employees are subject to the ethical rules on conflicts of interest set forth at Canon 3F of the Employees’ Code. Under those rules, for instance, these volunteers, like law clerks, may not work on cases involving future employers (Advisory Opinion No. 74), may not work on cases in which a party is represented by a volunteer court employee’s spouse’s law firm (Advisory Opinion No. 51), are bound by the prohibition against engaging in certain political activities (Advisory Opinion No. 92), and are limited in their conduct and representations on social media outlets (Advisory Opinion No. 112). Likewise, because interns, externs, or other volunteer court employees are now expressly treated the same as compensated employees, they are implicated in provisions of the Judges’ Code that address staff employment matters. For example, these volunteer employees are covered by the judges’ restraints against employing the child of another federal judge. See Advisory Opinion No. 64. This is not an exhaustive list of the application of the Employees’ Code or the Judges’ Code to interns, externs, or other volunteer court employees, but merely an illustration of the reach of those Codes to provide some guidance for the future.

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Re: Volunteer Law Clerks Not Law Clerks

Post by FeelingTerritorial » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:42 pm

hlsperson1111 wrote:In addition to being a shitty and unnecessary rule, it also appears to be unsupported by the Guide to Judiciary Policy, which expressly recognizes that volunteer employees are nonetheless employees subject to the same employment restrictions as compensated employees: . . .
It seems like this circuit is aggressively enforcing the rule, but the circuit is correct about the policy. Guide to Judiciary Policy, Volume 12: Human Resources, Chapter 5: Employment, Section 550.35(e) (1) provides that "For chambers volunteers, in addition to the policies provided above [which address volunteer employment generally] . . . Duty titles may not include any derivation of the term 'law clerk.'" The rule was adopted by the Judicial Conference in 2014.

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Re: Volunteer Law Clerks Not Law Clerks

Post by TheProsecutor » Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:53 pm

Volunteer clerks should ignore this and just put law clerk or volunteer law clerk on their resume. If they do the work and the judges hired them as a volunteer law clerk, then who cares what the judiciary says? Lol at any body having the authority to restrict what you can put on your resume if it is accurate.
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Re: Volunteer Law Clerks Not Law Clerks

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:34 pm

What is the latest guidance on this? I've seen some postings on OSCAR about volunteer clerkships and I'm just curious if whether or not you can list your title as "law clerk" has been definitively hashed out.

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Re: Volunteer Law Clerks Not Law Clerks

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:59 pm

Future employers don't call HR, they call chambers. So if the judge/JA confirms your title, I don't see why/how HR is involved.

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Re: Volunteer Law Clerks Not Law Clerks

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:34 pm
What is the latest guidance on this? I've seen some postings on OSCAR about volunteer clerkships and I'm just curious if whether or not you can list your title as "law clerk" has been definitively hashed out.
Unfortunately there is no clear guidance and it depends on the judge. In my district, volunteer law clerks were officially "judicial fellows" but my judge allowed them to call themselves whatever they wanted while job hunting. Other judges were pretty strict on sticking to the judicial fellow title.

Then of course there was the judicial fellow that got fired from our chambers, then got hired as a volunteer clerk by another judge and fired again, and has "judicial law clerk" listed on their linkedin profile.

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Re: Volunteer Law Clerks Not Law Clerks

Post by ExpOriental » Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:03 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:34 pm
What is the latest guidance on this? I've seen some postings on OSCAR about volunteer clerkships and I'm just curious if whether or not you can list your title as "law clerk" has been definitively hashed out.
Unfortunately there is no clear guidance and it depends on the judge. In my district, volunteer law clerks were officially "judicial fellows" but my judge allowed them to call themselves whatever they wanted while job hunting. Other judges were pretty strict on sticking to the judicial fellow title.

Then of course there was the judicial fellow that got fired from our chambers, then got hired as a volunteer clerk by another judge and fired again, and has "judicial law clerk" listed on their linkedin profile.
Story time

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Re: Volunteer Law Clerks Not Law Clerks

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:34 pm
What is the latest guidance on this? I've seen some postings on OSCAR about volunteer clerkships and I'm just curious if whether or not you can list your title as "law clerk" has been definitively hashed out.
It probably varies by judge, but I know several non-citizens (who can’t get paid by fed gov) doing clerkships that are technically volunteer, but are allowed to refer to themselves as regular “law clerk”

edit: sorry, I meant who are doing or have done* ie. not all this year lol

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Re: Volunteer Law Clerks Not Law Clerks

Post by nixy » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:09 am

I think it varies by judge. I also think I heard that some funding sources require you to say volunteer? Like if you’re funded by a school fellowship, the school can require you to describe it as “volunteer” (not sure if this is true and if it is how widespread it is).

But honestly if I were hiring and the resume said “volunteer” or “fellow” or whatever designation other than plain old “law clerk,” I’d assume you just did the same work as any other clerk, and I’d already see all your other qualifications (like school and GPA or rank, if available), so whether you got hired through the “real” process or by showing up and volunteering to work for free wouldn’t make any difference. For me, the value in someone having a clerkship is that they did that work. I don’t have to use “getting hired as a clerk” as a proxy for intelligence or law school success or work ethic because I’ll have basically the same info about that stuff that a judge would have when hiring you anyway.

(So say you clerked for SDNY and got hired through the traditional process. That suggests you went to a great school, had great grades, and probably had someone who could advocate for you. But if you’re applying for a job, I know those things already because that info is on your resume and in your references. If you got a volunteer clerkship, I’m still going to be able to see your school and grades and so on. If you somehow got a clerkship you didn’t “deserve” grades/school wise because you could waltz in unpaid, I’ll see that too in your materials. At that point what I’ll want to know is what you did in the clerkship and what the judge thinks if you. To be clear, I think there are WAY more people who deserve/are qualified to clerk than there are clerkships, so I’m not going to hold listing a clerkship as volunteer or unpaid against someone.)

I suppose the worst thing a volunteer/unpaid designation does is that it does suggest that you didn’t get another job lined up by graduation. But there are a lot of possible reasons for that, and again, I’m going to rely on the rest of your application materials to figure out whether that’s because you’re a weak candidate overall, or whether it’s just a function of circumstance. (And if someone is international and can’t get paid by the feds it’s an entirely different circumstance anyway.)

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