When to tell firm?
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:19 am
2014 grad, clerking now at SSC, returning to firm in the fall. have secured 2016 clerkship. do I tell firm now, or wait til I get there?
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yessundance95 wrote:Is the firm biglaw?
why?the answer is always "now"
Even if firm is a regional firm with few juniors that might decide that having someone around for just a year isn't worth the 170K?seizmaar wrote:the answer is always "now"
Yeah I second this q. Some firms might shitcan you if they don't think you want to be there long term.sundance95 wrote:Even if firm is a regional firm with few juniors that might decide that having someone around for just a year isn't worth the 170K?seizmaar wrote:the answer is always "now"
This is poor advice. Unless you're eager to completely close the door on returning to your firm, you should not wait until March of 2016 (or later) to tell the firm about a clerkship you've had in hand for over a year. You also run the risk of irking your judge if he or she finds out that you kept your clerkship from your firm.JohannDeMann wrote:there is no benefit to telling them now. if you tell them later, even if they can you, at least you got some experience.
the anser is actually always as late as possible. i wouldnt even consider this at least until this time 2016.
I agree with this completely. I have clerked on the CoA and will clerk on D.Ct. level, and I have had to navigate this recently. In terms of self-interest, in most cases, there is no substantial benefit in notifying a Big Law firm with more than a year's notice. As JohannDeMann mentioned, the potential for negative consequences significantly outweigh the benefits (which, again, I'm not sure what that would be). Even if the firm is cool with it, you will risk getting staffed on more short-term, less substantive projects for the entire year. Instead, if you give them say 6 months' notice, then that's more than enough time for them to hire a new associate and ample time to phase you out on long-term projects (which will happen no matter when you notify them of your intent to leave).JohannDeMann wrote:I wouldn't agree with that either. I just don't think it's necessary. The thing is if it irks them that you're leaving to go back and do a clerkship, it's going to irk regardless of if yo ugive them 6 months notice or 1.5 years. The only difference is in one situation you give them a nice 6 month opportunity to replace you and the other it's easier for them to have you keep coming in every day than find someone else. So it basically guarantees you 1 year of private firm pracitce work which should be enough to bounce back and get a job if you get fired.
OP could be fucked if tells firm now and gets canned and then has trouble finding a job for a year because firms dont want to hire temp help. There is no good that can come from telling them now that won't come from telling them in one year time.
No big law firm wants the following conversation to occur:JohannDeMann wrote:OP could be fucked if tells firm now and gets canned and then has trouble finding a job for a year because firms dont want to hire temp help.
I agree with you insofar as there is no affirmative "substantial benefit" in notifying the firm a year out. You're right that it can change the work you get and the matters you get staffed on. But this isn't about improving your temporary life at the firm; it's about avoiding an awkward situation that unnecessarily harms your reputation with both the firm and the judge.elipad wrote: I agree with this completely. I have clerked on the CoA and will clerk on D.Ct. level, and I have had to navigate this recently. In terms of self-interest, in most cases, there is no substantial benefit in notifying a Big Law firm with more than a year's notice.
I suppose this is just as idiosyncratic as everything else then. Aside from this seeming like a really weird notion, one of the first things my judge asked me was if I was informing the firm. When I said I had yet to he noted it was probably a good idea to wait (I accepted 18 months out). Similarly, a partner who spoke to the judge for me asked if I had told people at the firm that I accepted and I said not yet. He also replied "I wouldn't. You'll likely have some staffing problems and when people are slow you'll be last in line."rpupkin wrote:I agree with you insofar as there is no affirmative "substantial benefit" in notifying the firm a year out. You're right that it can change the work you get and the matters you get staffed on. But this isn't about improving your temporary life at the firm; it's about avoiding an awkward situation that unnecessarily harms your reputation with both the firm and the judge.elipad wrote: I agree with this completely. I have clerked on the CoA and will clerk on D.Ct. level, and I have had to navigate this recently. In terms of self-interest, in most cases, there is no substantial benefit in notifying a Big Law firm with more than a year's notice.
I was a COA clerk as well. My judge socialized with many who worked in big law, and he often spoke at conferences and events. If I started working at a big law firm in the year before my clerkship without telling anyone at the firm about my clerkship, and if my judge found that out, he would wonder what the fuck I was thinking. It's just weird.
This story doesn't surprise me. But the thing is, you talked to your judge about it. And you talked to a partner at your firm about it. There's no issue here if the judge knows about (and is fine with) a "I'm not going to tell anyone till the last minute about my clerkship" approach.Anonymous User wrote:I suppose this is just as idiosyncratic as everything else then. Aside from this seeming like a really weird notion, one of the first things my judge asked me was if I was informing the firm. When I said I had yet to he noted it was probably a good idea to wait (I accepted 18 months out). Similarly, a partner who spoke to the judge for me asked if I had told people at the firm that I accepted and I said not yet. He also replied "I wouldn't. You'll likely have some staffing problems and when people are slow you'll be last in line."
So you're summering in 2015 and then clerking in 2016-17? It's fine to wait until this summer.Anonymous User wrote:Slightly different but related question - What about when to tell your SA firm? Should I wait until I get there this summer, or email/ call now?
What, hold the phone, we're supposed to give a firm 6 months notice before we jump ship for another gig?? They can and do Latham us to the curb all the time, and at a moment's notice, with or without a severance package. My impression was that we owe the amoral biglaw machine absolutely no duty outside of maybe a two weeks notice--is that not true? Or is this advice solely geared at someone who's leaving the firm temporarily and is interested in returning to the grind after their temp gig is up.elipad wrote:I agree with this completely. I have clerked on the CoA and will clerk on D.Ct. level, and I have had to navigate this recently. In terms of self-interest, in most cases, there is no substantial benefit in notifying a Big Law firm with more than a year's notice. As JohannDeMann mentioned, the potential for negative consequences significantly outweigh the benefits (which, again, I'm not sure what that would be). Even if the firm is cool with it, you will risk getting staffed on more short-term, less substantive projects for the entire year. Instead, if you give them say 6 months' notice, then that's more than enough time for them to hire a new associate and ample time to phase you out on long-term projects (which will happen no matter when you notify them of your intent to leave).JohannDeMann wrote:I wouldn't agree with that either. I just don't think it's necessary. The thing is if it irks them that you're leaving to go back and do a clerkship, it's going to irk regardless of if yo ugive them 6 months notice or 1.5 years. The only difference is in one situation you give them a nice 6 month opportunity to replace you and the other it's easier for them to have you keep coming in every day than find someone else. So it basically guarantees you 1 year of private firm pracitce work which should be enough to bounce back and get a job if you get fired.
OP could be fucked if tells firm now and gets canned and then has trouble finding a job for a year because firms dont want to hire temp help. There is no good that can come from telling them now that won't come from telling them in one year time.
Moreover, in what other context would this ever be okay? If you were lateraling to another firm or government service, it would be preposterous to tell them a year in advance that you were planning on leaving. Big Law firms are run by adults and they treat their associates as such (mostly). You don't "owe" them (contractually or otherwise) a year's notice.
Lastly, I actually don't think most Big Law firms would actually care that much. Mine encouraged me to pursue an additional clerkship. Nonetheless, I didn't tell them my specific plans so far in advance (in fact, my Hiring Manager said to just give us a few month's heads up). Moreover, you don't know what can happen in between that time (e.g., my co-worker's future judge suddenly resigned).