Clerks Taking Questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

Thank you both for your responses. While all of the former clerks I spoke to mentioned that they learned a lot, some mentioned that the judge wasn't very organized in giving feedback on their written product.

I'm just worried that I may be boxing myself into an opportunity that I may later come to regret. This was my first COA interview. I already have a district court clerkship lined up. I would like to see what other interviews I can get, but, at the same time, I don't want to throw away any opportunity that might come my way.

[rpupkin]

Thank you both for your responses. While all of the former clerks I spoke to mentioned that they learned a lot, some mentioned that the judge wasn't very organized in giving feedback on their written product.

Many judges—probably most judges—provide no feedback on your written work, aside from instructions for you to fix or revise something. It's the rare judge who gives organized feedback about a clerk's writing.

[mjb447]

Thank you both for your responses. While all of the former clerks I spoke to mentioned that they learned a lot, some mentioned that the judge wasn't very organized in giving feedback on their written product.

Many judges—probably most judges—provide no feedback on your written work, aside from instructions for you to fix or revise something. It's the rare judge who gives organized feedback about a clerk's writing.

+1. I've almost never received feedback on my writing that wasn't directed at fixing specific issues with a specific draft. This wouldn't cause me any hesitation. (It's fine if that kind of mentoring is really important to you - there just aren't as many judges who do it as you might think based on all the clerking hype.)

[jd20132013]

Thank you both for your responses. While all of the former clerks I spoke to mentioned that they learned a lot, some mentioned that the judge wasn't very organized in giving feedback on their written product.

I'm just worried that I may be boxing myself into an opportunity that I may later come to regret. This was my first COA interview. I already have a district court clerkship lined up. I would like to see what other interviews I can get, but, at the same time, I don't want to throw away any opportunity that might come my way.

Oh. If that's what you mean by organized no one gives "feedback" in that way at any level. Hyperbole but the chance of you stumbling into one is pretty small.

Your feedback is what they tell you to cut and add.

[grand inquisitor]

the only non-editing advice my judge gave me was telling me to brief cases exactly as the curmudgeon's guide dictates

[A. Nony Mouse]

I had one judge who teaches appellate writing and taught me a TON about writing and one who...not so much. (I learned plenty from the second one, just not about writing.)

[Anonymous User]

Bit of a strange question, but the people in this thread have been super helpful in the past: does anyone have any information about post-clerking firm positions overseas? I'll be clerking starting in 2 months and hope to have another clerkship for 2018 (both D. Ct. flyover). My grades were good, law journal + moot court, 2L biglaw SA, but my school was T3. I also would know the language of where I would want to go and have some connection there (Asia).

I did see on NALP that a few firms like MOFO hire post-clerkship directly for their foreign offices, but they haven't hired anyone from a clerkship in the past few years. From my understanding, it's much more common to work a few years in a US office before transferring over.

[rpupkin]

Bit of a strange question, but the people in this thread have been super helpful in the past: does anyone have any information about post-clerking firm positions overseas?

Most overseas positions are transactional, where your clerkship is of little value. There are also some international arbitration groups in overseas firms but, again, a clerkship isn't going to help much for any open positions in those groups.

I had a friend who—for various personal reasons—wanted a job in Asia after his clerkship, and he found that his clerkship was actually a detriment. He had more than one interviewer ask why he wasn't working at a firm instead of clerking.

[Anonymous User]

Bit of a strange question, but the people in this thread have been super helpful in the past: does anyone have any information about post-clerking firm positions overseas?

Most overseas positions are transactional, where your clerkship is of little value. There are also some international arbitration groups in overseas firms but, again, a clerkship isn't going to help much for any open positions in those groups.

I had a friend who—for various personal reasons—wanted a job in Asia after his clerkship, and he found that his clerkship was actually a detriment. He had more than one interviewer ask why he wasn't working at a firm instead of clerking.

Yeah, I would be specifically targeting firms with litigation groups abroad, like MOFO, and I know those positions aren't very numerous compared to all the transactional positions available. I figured that a clerkship going into a litigation position would be seen as positive even if it was overseas

[Anonymous User]

Curious about the process for updating through OSCAR.

We just got LR results / I landed a good externship and I want to include both on an update resume.

On OSCAR you can just go in to a finalized application, click edit, and change any attached document, then save, and it tells you that you've updated your application.

But, for example, in Judge Pillard's position instructions, it includes the line: "If you wish to update any part of your existing application, send an email with the word "update" in the subject line and your first and last name in the body of the email to [EMAIL]. After we receive your email, we will modify your access so that you can update other portions of your application."

I'm able to update my application for her just like every other application. What does this mean?

Also do chambers get emails/notifications when an app is updated through OSCAR?

[Lavitz]

Curious about the process for updating through OSCAR.

We just got LR results / I landed a good externship and I want to include both on an update resume.

On OSCAR you can just go in to a finalized application, click edit, and change any attached document, then save, and it tells you that you've updated your application.

But, for example, in Judge Pillard's position instructions, it includes the line: "If you wish to update any part of your existing application, send an email with the word "update" in the subject line and your first and last name in the body of the email to [EMAIL]. After we receive your email, we will modify your access so that you can update other portions of your application."

I'm able to update my application for her just like every other application. What does this mean?

Also do chambers get emails/notifications when an app is updated through OSCAR?

It's probably just an outdated part of her instructions they didn't bother to change after OSCAR started allowing people to update finalized apps.

I know they can choose to receive daily or weekly e-mails about new and withdrawn applications, but I'm not sure whether the e-mails include updates. If they look at your name on the applicants list, they'll see that it's been updated though.

[Anonymous User]

When do my ethical obligations as a clerk terminate? LIke is it 5:00 p.m. on my last day? With my last paycheck? When my benefits terminate?

[mjb447]

When do my ethical obligations as a clerk terminate? LIke is it 5:00 p.m. on my last day? With my last paycheck? When my benefits terminate?

Which obligations?

[rpupkin]

When do my ethical obligations as a clerk terminate? LIke is it 5:00 p.m. on my last day? With my last paycheck? When my benefits terminate?

These are excellent questions to ask a judge during an interview.

[Mr. Blackacre]

When do my ethical obligations as a clerk terminate? LIke is it 5:00 p.m. on my last day? With my last paycheck? When my benefits terminate?

These are excellent terrible questions to ask a judge during an interview.

I'm sure every judge will be more than happy to answer that kind of question in an interview and not at all wonder whether it's weird that the applicant can't wait to be discharged of the ethical obligations they'll be under. I don't see why you can't ask that kind of question after you're hired, and as you're planning your exit options.

[rpupkin]

When do my ethical obligations as a clerk terminate? LIke is it 5:00 p.m. on my last day? With my last paycheck? When my benefits terminate?

These are excellent terrible questions to ask a judge during an interview.

I'm sure every judge will be more than happy to answer that kind of question in an interview and not at all wonder whether it's weird that the applicant can't wait to be discharged of the ethical obligations they'll be under. I don't see why you can't ask that kind of question after you're hired, and as you're planning your exit options.

Dude, it was a joke. Of course it's a terrible question to ask during an interview. It's actually not a great question to ask during your clerkship either, as any clerk should understand that certain ethical obligations don't end with the clerkship. As mjb's response gets at, the anon's question is too broad. Anon should tell us what his/her question is really about.

[Anonymous User]

You guys went ballistic, jeezus. I'm finishing my term in a month here. I just want to know when can go back to posting my garbage political views on facebook.

I should have been more specific. The obligation I mean is to not engage in matters of public controversy. Think Canon 5 of federal clerk handbook

[jrf12886]

You guys went ballistic, jeezus. I'm finishing my term in a month here. I just want to know when can go back to posting my garbage political views on facebook.

I should have been more specific. The obligation I mean is to not engage in matters of public controversy. Think Canon 5 of federal clerk handbook

When you walk out the door on your last day.

[Lincoln]

PSA: When asking professors for LORs in support of clerkship applications, make sure you know the letters will be good ones. Your clerkship office or former students who are now clerking should be able to give you advice on this. We recently received a LOR from a CCN prof that contained exactly three sentences about the applicant's qualifications, and one of them was "I am afraid I don't have much more to say."

[BVest]

That is cold.

[Gray]

.

[mjb447]

PSA: When asking professors for LORs in support of clerkship applications, make sure you know the letters will be good ones. Your clerkship office or former students who are now clerking should be able to give you advice on this. We recently received a LOR from a CCN prof that contained exactly three sentences about the applicant's qualifications, and one of them was "I am afraid I don't have much more to say."

Damn you'd think the prof would just decline to write the letter.

Yeah, that's almost like the prof going out of his way to ensure that this person wastes their clerkship apps (which isn't great for the school either). Yikes.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

PSA: When asking professors for LORs in support of clerkship applications, make sure you know the letters will be good ones. Your clerkship office or former students who are now clerking should be able to give you advice on this. We recently received a LOR from a CCN prof that contained exactly three sentences about the applicant's qualifications, and one of them was "I am afraid I don't have much more to say."

Seriously. I recently read a rec that said, "X is not brilliant, but s/he is hard-working and attractive."

[Anonymous User]

I am starting my fed clerkship in a week. Besides mailing in my HR forms, I haven't received really any information about compensation or benefits. I am supposed to attend a wedding the third week of september and I haven't been able to provide the couple a firm RSVP because I still don't have information on whether I'll be able to take vacation (and if so, whether I could take several days six weeks in). Any advice? Obviously not reaching out to the judge about this but I did ask HR about pto policy and received no response. I sort of can't put it off any longer.