Clerks Taking Questions Forum

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue May 09, 2017 1:13 pm

BVest wrote:That listing may have been a mistake, but I'm pretty sure he does hire a half-time term clerk as well.
Is it one of those half-clerk half-JA gigs? When I was on that court he definitely had 2 full time clerks but he might split his JA to get more clerk labor.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by BVest » Tue May 09, 2017 1:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
BVest wrote:That listing may have been a mistake, but I'm pretty sure he does hire a half-time term clerk as well.
Is it one of those half-clerk half-JA gigs? When I was on that court he definitely had 2 full time clerks but he might split his JA to get more clerk labor.
When I've seen it advertised in the past, it was just the clerk half.

Other DC chambers I've seen that do half clerk/half JA have done it with their career clerk rather than a term position. That said, I know of a SSC judge who did it with a term clerk (but doubled the length of the normal term for the position).
Last edited by BVest on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Thu May 11, 2017 9:30 pm

What is the general wisdom on re-applying to judges with whom you have interviewed for a past term? I interviewed with a judge whom I loved in a somewhat prestigious district. I didn't get the clerkship, but I ended up getting one elsewhere for 2017. I would consider doing a second clerkship in order to clerk in his chambers. Would it be frowned upon to re-apply for a clerkship in his chambers for 2018-2019? What about a different judge in the same district?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by mjb447 » Thu May 11, 2017 9:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What is the general wisdom on re-applying to judges with whom you have interviewed for a past term? I interviewed with a judge whom I loved in a somewhat prestigious district. I didn't get the clerkship, but I ended up getting one elsewhere for 2017. I would consider doing a second clerkship in order to clerk in his chambers. Would it be frowned upon to re-apply for a clerkship in his chambers for 2018-2019? What about a different judge in the same district?
Different judge in the same district is fine. If you hadn't interviewed, I'd also say definitely apply to the same judge again because you wouldn't know if your application was even looked at, and some judges will think you're a much stronger candidate with a clerkship under your belt already. It's a little tougher because you interviewed - for a lot of judges (probably most?) it's about fit at that stage, and if the judge decided that you just weren't a good fit, that probably won't change a second time around. That said, it's also possible that he would have hired you but for a few applicants who he liked better who won't be in the pool this time around. I'd probably still apply again because I don't think you really have anything to lose; there's just a decent chance that you won't land the interview this time.

(I assume that doing a second clerkship is consistent with what you want to do with your career.)

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri May 12, 2017 3:28 pm

I recently accepted a district court clerkship for the 18-19 term. Before I got the position, I applied to a few circuit court judges as well for the 18-19 term and I now want to apply to those same circuit court judges for the 19-20 term. How do I update my application? Do I apply for the 19-20 term and not mention my previous application? Do I just submit a new cover letter?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by mjb447 » Fri May 12, 2017 3:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I recently accepted a district court clerkship for the 18-19 term. Before I got the position, I applied to a few circuit court judges as well for the 18-19 term and I now want to apply to those same circuit court judges for the 19-20 term. How do I update my application? Do I apply for the 19-20 term and not mention my previous application? Do I just submit a new cover letter?
Via OSCAR or in hard copy?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by lawlorbust » Fri May 12, 2017 4:06 pm

anon sequitur wrote:
lawman84 wrote:I just saw Judge Browning from New Mexico hires a full-time half-pay law clerk. How? Why would someone do that? Why would he do that to someone?
He's probably splitting one of his staff positions into two, maybe a part-time judicial assistant and a full-time half-pay clerk. Pretty mercenary, but I doubt there's much of a shortage of people who didn't have a shot at a clerkship and willing to swallow their pride. $30k for the year is livable in that part of the country, though not comfortable, and at the end you get the same line on your resume as everyone else. Still, I would feel like shit working with two other clerks doing the same job but literally making double than me.
It'd be pretty awesome if he got to keep the change!

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by lolwat » Fri May 12, 2017 4:18 pm

mjb447 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I recently accepted a district court clerkship for the 18-19 term. Before I got the position, I applied to a few circuit court judges as well for the 18-19 term and I now want to apply to those same circuit court judges for the 19-20 term. How do I update my application? Do I apply for the 19-20 term and not mention my previous application? Do I just submit a new cover letter?
Via OSCAR or in hard copy?
If the position is clearly still open, if OSCAR I would update cover letter (ALSO, important, note that you have a district court clerkship for 2018-2019!!) and if hard copy, I would submit a new cover letter informing the circuit judge that you accepted a district court clerkship for 2018-2019 but would like to be considered for 2019-2020

There are many nuances to this advice depending on if the position is open, if the judge is considering apps for 19-20, etc. etc...tho


... regarding all the questions about Judge Browning, everything credible I have heard is that he's a really, really nice person all around. So while his full-time half-pay clerk position might seem odd and in some ways terrible for that clerk, my sense is as someone posted before that he is trying to be generous in opening as many opportunities as he can. I'm sure he's limited by federal funds as to how much he can pay. I've also heard of at least one judge who doesn't have a judicial assistant and just hire a full-time law clerk who spends half of their time doing all the admin stuff that a JA would be doing. That's probably the other way to do it but I'm sure it's much better for a judge to have a permanent JA who knows how he likes things done etc. rather than rotate a new law clerk every year or two to take care of admin stuff.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri May 12, 2017 4:39 pm

I will agree that from everything I've heard, Judge Browning is extremely nice and extremely smart. His clerks work way harder than I think is necessary, but he doesn't make them do anything he doesn't do himself and my impression is that clerks generally have a good relationship with him.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by mjb447 » Fri May 12, 2017 5:34 pm

lolwat wrote:
mjb447 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I recently accepted a district court clerkship for the 18-19 term. Before I got the position, I applied to a few circuit court judges as well for the 18-19 term and I now want to apply to those same circuit court judges for the 19-20 term. How do I update my application? Do I apply for the 19-20 term and not mention my previous application? Do I just submit a new cover letter?
Via OSCAR or in hard copy?
If the position is clearly still open, if OSCAR I would update cover letter (ALSO, important, note that you have a district court clerkship for 2018-2019!!) and if hard copy, I would submit a new cover letter informing the circuit judge that you accepted a district court clerkship for 2018-2019 but would like to be considered for 2019-2020

There are many nuances to this advice depending on if the position is open, if the judge is considering apps for 19-20, etc. etc...tho


... regarding all the questions about Judge Browning, everything credible I have heard is that he's a really, really nice person all around. So while his full-time half-pay clerk position might seem odd and in some ways terrible for that clerk, my sense is as someone posted before that he is trying to be generous in opening as many opportunities as he can. I'm sure he's limited by federal funds as to how much he can pay. I've also heard of at least one judge who doesn't have a judicial assistant and just hire a full-time law clerk who spends half of their time doing all the admin stuff that a JA would be doing. That's probably the other way to do it but I'm sure it's much better for a judge to have a permanent JA who knows how he likes things done etc. rather than rotate a new law clerk every year or two to take care of admin stuff.
Yeah, I was going to try to figure our some of those nuances depending what OP said (OSCAR is much easier because you theoretically know if a position is open or not, and updating is pretty simple), but I basically agree with that. (Might update the resume too just to make sure your d. ct. clerkship is front and center - statements in a cover letter can get overlooked, and it's okay to put an anticipated clerkship on a resume.)

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by clerk1251 » Mon May 15, 2017 10:14 am

.
Last edited by clerk1251 on Mon May 15, 2017 12:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by mjb447 » Mon May 15, 2017 11:37 am

clerk1251 wrote:
mjb447 wrote:
lolwat wrote:
mjb447 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I recently accepted a district court clerkship for the 18-19 term. Before I got the position, I applied to a few circuit court judges as well for the 18-19 term and I now want to apply to those same circuit court judges for the 19-20 term. How do I update my application? Do I apply for the 19-20 term and not mention my previous application? Do I just submit a new cover letter?
Via OSCAR or in hard copy?
If the position is clearly still open, if OSCAR I would update cover letter (ALSO, important, note that you have a district court clerkship for 2018-2019!!) and if hard copy, I would submit a new cover letter informing the circuit judge that you accepted a district court clerkship for 2018-2019 but would like to be considered for 2019-2020

There are many nuances to this advice depending on if the position is open, if the judge is considering apps for 19-20, etc. etc...tho


... regarding all the questions about Judge Browning, everything credible I have heard is that he's a really, really nice person all around. So while his full-time half-pay clerk position might seem odd and in some ways terrible for that clerk, my sense is as someone posted before that he is trying to be generous in opening as many opportunities as he can. I'm sure he's limited by federal funds as to how much he can pay. I've also heard of at least one judge who doesn't have a judicial assistant and just hire a full-time law clerk who spends half of their time doing all the admin stuff that a JA would be doing. That's probably the other way to do it but I'm sure it's much better for a judge to have a permanent JA who knows how he likes things done etc. rather than rotate a new law clerk every year or two to take care of admin stuff.
Yeah, I was going to try to figure our some of those nuances depending what OP said (OSCAR is much easier because you theoretically know if a position is open or not, and updating is pretty simple), but I basically agree with that. (Might update the resume too just to make sure your d. ct. clerkship is front and center - statements in a cover letter can get overlooked, and it's okay to put an anticipated clerkship on a resume.)
A caveat to both of your advice seems to be that OP hasn't secured any clerkship yet. Re-read his post. He seems to just be planning ahead and wants to apply to everything, in the event he secures 2018. Or at least that's how I read it.

I think very simply, you can just update your cover letter for all OSCAR apps to say that you'd like to be considered for either the 2018 or 2019 term.
What does the bolded and underlined part mean to you?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by clerk1251 » Mon May 15, 2017 12:24 pm

mjb447 wrote:
clerk1251 wrote:
mjb447 wrote:
lolwat wrote:
mjb447 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I recently accepted a district court clerkship for the 18-19 term. Before I got the position, I applied to a few circuit court judges as well for the 18-19 term and I now want to apply to those same circuit court judges for the 19-20 term. How do I update my application? Do I apply for the 19-20 term and not mention my previous application? Do I just submit a new cover letter?
Via OSCAR or in hard copy?
If the position is clearly still open, if OSCAR I would update cover letter (ALSO, important, note that you have a district court clerkship for 2018-2019!!) and if hard copy, I would submit a new cover letter informing the circuit judge that you accepted a district court clerkship for 2018-2019 but would like to be considered for 2019-2020

There are many nuances to this advice depending on if the position is open, if the judge is considering apps for 19-20, etc. etc...tho


... regarding all the questions about Judge Browning, everything credible I have heard is that he's a really, really nice person all around. So while his full-time half-pay clerk position might seem odd and in some ways terrible for that clerk, my sense is as someone posted before that he is trying to be generous in opening as many opportunities as he can. I'm sure he's limited by federal funds as to how much he can pay. I've also heard of at least one judge who doesn't have a judicial assistant and just hire a full-time law clerk who spends half of their time doing all the admin stuff that a JA would be doing. That's probably the other way to do it but I'm sure it's much better for a judge to have a permanent JA who knows how he likes things done etc. rather than rotate a new law clerk every year or two to take care of admin stuff.
Yeah, I was going to try to figure our some of those nuances depending what OP said (OSCAR is much easier because you theoretically know if a position is open or not, and updating is pretty simple), but I basically agree with that. (Might update the resume too just to make sure your d. ct. clerkship is front and center - statements in a cover letter can get overlooked, and it's okay to put an anticipated clerkship on a resume.)
A caveat to both of your advice seems to be that OP hasn't secured any clerkship yet. Re-read his post. He seems to just be planning ahead and wants to apply to everything, in the event he secures 2018. Or at least that's how I read it.

I think very simply, you can just update your cover letter for all OSCAR apps to say that you'd like to be considered for either the 2018 or 2019 term.
What does the bolded and underlined part mean to you?
Touche - I must have missed that part. I'll just blame it on Monday morning, ha.

In that case, I think the advice given is spot on. Edit resume and cover letters. I might even go as far as to call the chambers that you applied to for 2018, that currently list openings for 2019 and tell them you've gotten a clerkship for 2018 and is it possible for you to be considered for 2019 instead. It's certainly a way to get you noticed. Some of them may even suggest withdrawing your application and reapplying for the 2019 slot, in the event they are not actively reviewing those candidates yet.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed May 17, 2017 5:59 am

Looking for some affirmation/advice. 2L at CCN probably around top 15-20%, have three solid recommenders lined up, and a COA judge willing to make calls. But I don't think I want to clerk.

Straight PD gunner and that's pretty much all I do in law school. I like school, but I was never quite good at sitting down doing research and churning out memos. I just kind of hate those tasks. I don't think I'd enjoy clerking after the first month, and for what I want to do I don't think clerking will help.

My fear is that I'm throwing away some golden opportunity that I'll never get the chance at again and I'll regret it. One professor I'm close with heavily pressures me to clerk.

Kind of just looking for someone to say that clerking isn't some magic prestige I need. Just some real FOMO swirling around.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by A. Nony Mouse » Wed May 17, 2017 6:59 am

No, you absolutely don't need to clerk to be a PD. If you wanted to, I don't think it would hurt you or anything, but since you don't want to, there isn't any pressing need that I'm aware of.

Also, if you change your mind in a year or two you still have the option of doing it then - there is probably a window that shuts, but it's not immediate.

(I do know FPDs who have done clerkships, so if you want to go that route, it's something to consider. But I also know FPDs who haven't - it's by no means required.)

I'm sure your professor means well, but unless they were originally a PD and did a clerkship and can speak directly to why it's really worth it to do, I wouldn't worry about their opinion. (I suspect some profs really like being able to place students in clerkships/being able to say they've placed students/maintaining those connections by sending good clerks to people they know, but that's to their benefit, not yours [although I'm sure they also believe it would benefit you].)

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed May 17, 2017 7:18 am

I know it'll have no impact on my PD hiring (save for being a detriment at some offices), my concern was more that there's some intrinsic benefit that I'll miss.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by mjb447 » Wed May 17, 2017 8:37 am

"Clerking isn't some magic prestige [you] need." If you're satisfied that clerking wouldn't be worth it for where you're trying to go professionally, it's completely reasonable not to clerk. I enjoy clerking and I'm glad I clerk, but it's not for everyone, and I think the "best experience of your legal career" folks go a bit overboard.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by lolwat » Wed May 17, 2017 7:45 pm

mjb447 wrote:"Clerking isn't some magic prestige [you] need." If you're satisfied that clerking wouldn't be worth it for where you're trying to go professionally, it's completely reasonable not to clerk. I enjoy clerking and I'm glad I clerk, but it's not for everyone, and I think the "best experience of your legal career" folks go a bit overboard.
I'd agree with all of this except maybe the last part just because I think it often is true for those who go the more traditional route of clerking into biglaw/lit boutique and onwards. But I would say clerking if you're gunning for (at least state) DA/PD is almost (but not quite) like clerking when you know you want to go into corporate practice. Different work and sets of skills.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by mjb447 » Wed May 17, 2017 8:04 pm

lolwat wrote:
mjb447 wrote:"Clerking isn't some magic prestige [you] need." If you're satisfied that clerking wouldn't be worth it for where you're trying to go professionally, it's completely reasonable not to clerk. I enjoy clerking and I'm glad I clerk, but it's not for everyone, and I think the "best experience of your legal career" folks go a bit overboard.
I'd agree with all of this except maybe the last part just because I think it often is true for those who go the more traditional route of clerking into biglaw/lit boutique and onwards. But I would say clerking if you're gunning for (at least state) DA/PD is almost (but not quite) like clerking when you know you want to go into corporate practice. Different work and sets of skills.
That's fair, and I don't mean to imply that people who feel that way about their own experience are wrong. Some of the real gung-ho folks can't imagine that any lawyer wouldn't want to clerk just to do it, though, and I think that's excessive considering that (as you note) there are lots of career paths where clerking won't make much sense.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by MichelleMichelle » Sat May 20, 2017 12:06 pm

In general, how far in advance do chambers set the new clerks' start date? I have one starting end of July/beginning of August. I don't want to bother chambers, but knowing my start date would make planning the next few months a lot easier. At what point should I reach out to chambers (if at all)?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by mjb447 » Sat May 20, 2017 12:23 pm

MichelleMichelle wrote:In general, how far in advance do chambers set the new clerks' start date? I have one starting end of July/beginning of August. I don't want to bother chambers, but knowing my start date would make planning the next few months a lot easier. At what point should I reach out to chambers (if at all)?
It would be reasonable to start coordinating now, and it's fine if you're the one who gets the ball rolling. Usually it will depend on when your predecessor is leaving and how much of a gap is tolerable (if any), but you're less than three months out, so most of that should be known or knowable by now. You can also say that you need to know in order to start apartment hunting if you're moving.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 20, 2017 3:08 pm

MichelleMichelle wrote:In general, how far in advance do chambers set the new clerks' start date? I have one starting end of July/beginning of August. I don't want to bother chambers, but knowing my start date would make planning the next few months a lot easier. At what point should I reach out to chambers (if at all)?
I called on Wednesday and got one set in stone.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue May 23, 2017 1:01 pm

2 months since interview. No word. Is it over?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Barrred » Tue May 23, 2017 3:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:2 months since interview. No word. Is it over?
It means you weren't a "home run" that the judge thought he had to scoop up right away, but it doesn't mean you are out of consideration totally. In my clerkship hiring experience 1/2 the clerks we hired were "home runs" that were hired on the spot/within a day or two, but the other half were hired only after being compared to 4-5 other applicants, sometimes over the course of a few months.

Its not over until you get the rejection, but keep applying.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by mjb447 » Tue May 23, 2017 3:29 pm

Barrred wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:2 months since interview. No word. Is it over?
It means you weren't a "home run" that the judge thought he had to scoop up right away, but it doesn't mean you are out of consideration totally. In my clerkship hiring experience 1/2 the clerks we hired were "home runs" that were hired on the spot/within a day or two, but the other half were hired only after being compared to 4-5 other applicants, sometimes over the course of a few months.

Its not over until you get the rejection, but keep applying.
Yeah, to the extent that you can read anything into radio silence it's not a great sign, but it's not over, either.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
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