Clerks Taking Questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

Kinda a niche question, but does anyone have experience re: getting a second clerkship bonus when going to a different firm after a firm gap and then a second clerkship? (i.e., Law school --> clerk --> firm #1 (bonus: $50K) --> clerk --> firm #2 (second bonus:$50-70K(?)))

Basically I am wondering if anybody has heard of this happening, and could indicate the general likelihood of my pulling this off. (Specific data points/firm experiences would be greatly appreciated). Assume both clerkship are AIII (COA + D.ct), competitive, and in markets relevant to the firms I'm applying, if it matters.

[quiver]

Kinda a niche question, but does anyone have experience re: getting a second clerkship bonus when going to a different firm after a firm gap and then a second clerkship? (i.e., Law school --> clerk --> firm #1 (bonus: $50K) --> clerk --> firm #2 (second bonus:$50-70K(?)))

Basically I am wondering if anybody has heard of this happening, and could indicate the general likelihood of my pulling this off. (Specific data points/firm experiences would be greatly appreciated). Assume both clerkship are AIII (COA + D.ct), competitive, and in markets relevant to the firms I'm applying, if it matters.

You may need to push the second firm a little, but I know several people who did this in various major markets (NYC, LA, etc.). Not sure if it's common, but it's certainly not unheard of. Obviously much tougher if you return to the same firm; I've never heard of that happening.

[rpupkin]

Kinda a niche question, but does anyone have experience re: getting a second clerkship bonus when going to a different firm after a firm gap and then a second clerkship? (i.e., Law school --> clerk --> firm #1 (bonus: $50K) --> clerk --> firm #2 (second bonus:$50-70K(?)))

Basically I am wondering if anybody has heard of this happening, and could indicate the general likelihood of my pulling this off.

Sure, it happens. Often the second firms dings you a class year, which ends up costing you more money than the second bonus. All this stuff is negotiable.

[Anonymous User]

What's the protocol for trying to parlay an interview into other interviews with judges in the same courthouse? I got offered an interview with a circuit judge that I will have to fly across the country to do, and there's another judge in the same courthouse who is one of my top choices. Is it ok to call the second judge's chambers and ask if he wants to interview me while I'm there? Should I have a recommender do this for me instead? Should I avoid this altogether?

[grand inquisitor]

there's really no downside to letting them know you will be interviewing at another chambers and you are interested in clerking for the 2d judge as well if he is interested

[Anonymous User]

Anon to protect source:

I was told by a past chambers that they were contacted by a New Chambers to find out about my work and what I'm like. Should I be expecting a call or is this relatively routine?

[rpupkin]

I was told by a past chambers that they were contacted by a new chambers to find out about my work and what I'm like. Should I be expecting a call or is this relatively routine?

Huh? What do you mean by "past chambers?" Do you mean that you used to clerk for another judge and someone contacted him or her about another clerkship application?

[Anonymous User]

I was told by a past chambers that they were contacted by a new chambers to find out about my work and what I'm like. Should I be expecting a call or is this relatively routine?

Huh? What do you mean by "past chambers?" Do you mean that you used to clerk for another judge and someone contacted him or her about another clerkship application?

Basically that, yeah

[rpupkin]

I was told by a past chambers that they were contacted by a new chambers to find out about my work and what I'm like. Should I be expecting a call or is this relatively routine?

Huh? What do you mean by "past chambers?" Do you mean that you used to clerk for another judge and someone contacted him or her about another clerkship application?

Basically that, yeah

What do you mean by "basically?" I understand why you're posting anon, but I honestly don't understand what you're talking about or what you're asking. Sorry.

[mjb447]

Anon to protect source:

I was told by a past chambers that they were contacted by a new chambers to find out about my work and what I'm like. Should I be expecting a call or is this relatively routine?

Are you just asking if it's a good sign that a judge you'd like to work with contacted a past employer (in this case, a judge)? I don't think a judge would waste time contacting references/past employers if he weren't considering advancing you to the next phase, whatever that is. OTOH, reference checks sometimes derail people, and you don't know who else you're up against, so I also don't know that you should be "expecting a call." So somewhere in the middle of the two choices you proposed, if I'm understanding your question correctly?

[Anonymous User]

My bad. I worked for a judge in a legal capacity. I then applied for clerkships. A clerk for one judge I applied to called my old judge's clerk. I can connect the dots that this means my app got out of the pile, but I'm looking for perspectives from people who've hired or had this happen about how optimistic I ought to be. Sorry for the confusion.

[rpupkin]

I worked for a judge in a legal capacity.

This is ridiculous. Why can't you write a normal sentence?

[GoneSouth]

I worked for a judge in a legal capacity.

This is ridiculous. Why can't you write a normal sentence?

+1

[Anonymous User]

I worked for a judge in a legal capacity.

This is ridiculous. Why can't you write a normal sentence?

Hmm, good question. Why can't you just answer a question or say nothing like a polite human being?

I mean, I'm not speaking to you. If you feel you can't answer the question then how about you move along?

[BVest]

Do you even TLS bro?

[rpupkin]

Do you even TLS bro?

He's been basically involved in past internet activity in a TLS capacity.

[GoneSouth]

I worked for a judge in a legal capacity.

This is ridiculous. Why can't you write a normal sentence?

Hmm, good question. Why can't you just answer a question or say nothing like a polite human being?

I mean, I'm not speaking to you. If you feel you can't answer the question then how about you move along?

Because nobody knows what you mean dude. Did you clerk for the first job? Extern? JA? What?

[mjb447]

My bad. I worked for a judge in a legal capacity. I then applied for clerkships. A clerk for one judge I applied to called my old judge's clerk. I can connect the dots that this means my app got out of the pile, but I'm looking for perspectives from people who've hired or had this happen about how optimistic I ought to be. Sorry for the confusion.

So are you mostly looking for answers in the style of "one time I knew this guy in your situation and he did/didn't receive an offer to interview?"

[beepboopbeep]

My bad. I worked for a judge in a legal capacity. I then applied for clerkships. A clerk for one judge I applied to called my old judge's clerk. I can connect the dots that this means my app got out of the pile, but I'm looking for perspectives from people who've hired or had this happen about how optimistic I ought to be. Sorry for the confusion.

So are you mostly looking for answers in the style of "one time I knew this guy in your situation and he did/didn't receive an offer to interview?"

I mean you guys could be a little charitable. I thought the clear question was toward clerks who do hiring along the lines of "if you're contacting someone's previous judge, does that mean you're seriously looking at them or it is just routine." You can also guess from context that he externed rather than clerked since he doesn't know the answer himself, but just a guess.

That said, it seems that a) the answer is probably serious look, and b) pupkin's jab re: language is pretty well-deserved, op you these aren't discovery responses or some shit

[runinthefront]

I mean you guys could be a little charitable. I thought the clear question was toward clerks who do hiring along the lines of "if you're contacting someone's previous judge, does that mean you're seriously looking at them or it is just routine."

I think what's really underlying all the snark is the fact that OP asked a pretty dumb question to begin with. No one, not even former law clerks, can tell OP whether he's going to be receiving a phone call any day now. Every chambers is idiosyncratic. But it should also be obvious to OP that every chambers is not calling references of every applicant, which suggests that OP's application is at least being seriously considered for an interview.

Mjb447's post was a good one:

So are you mostly looking for answers in the style of "one time I knew this guy in your situation and he did/didn't receive an offer to interview?"

[Anonymous User]

What's the protocol for trying to parlay an interview into other interviews with judges in the same courthouse? I got offered an interview with a circuit judge that I will have to fly across the country to do, and there's another judge in the same courthouse who is one of my top choices. Is it ok to call the second judge's chambers and ask if he wants to interview me while I'm there? Should I have a recommender do this for me instead? Should I avoid this altogether?

Call or email chambers to let the second judge know you'll be in town to interview with the first judge, and express that you would be interested in meeting with the second judge during X window of time if s/he would be interested in interviewing you. If the second judge is interested they'll probably interview you even if they aren't ready to make hiring decisions yet, both as a courtesy so you don't have to fly out again and to keep the first judge from "scooping" you in the event the second judge ends up really wanting you.

If the second judge isn't interested there's no chance that having made the request will hurt you with the first judge unless you're somehow rude to the second judge's chambers staff in making the request. These sorts of requests happen frequently, and both judges probably assume that you're applying to other judges in the courthouse/circuit anyway.

[beepboopbeep]

I mean you guys could be a little charitable. I thought the clear question was toward clerks who do hiring along the lines of "if you're contacting someone's previous judge, does that mean you're seriously looking at them or it is just routine."

I think what's really underlying all the snark is the fact that OP asked a pretty dumb question to begin with. No one, not even former law clerks, can tell OP whether he's going to be receiving a phone call any day now. Every chambers is idiosyncratic. But it should also be obvious to OP that every chambers is not calling references of every applicant, which suggests that OP's application is at least being seriously considered for an interview.

Mjb447's post was a good one:

So are you mostly looking for answers in the style of "one time I knew this guy in your situation and he did/didn't receive an offer to interview?"

Yea fair enough.

[rpupkin]

I mean you guys could be a little charitable. I thought the clear question was toward clerks who do hiring along the lines of "if you're contacting someone's previous judge, does that mean you're seriously looking at them or it is just routine." You can also guess from context that he externed rather than clerked since he doesn't know the answer himself, but just a guess.

That said, it seems that a) the answer is probably serious look, and b) pupkin's jab re: language is pretty well-deserved, op you these aren't discovery responses or some shit

In defense of my snark, the facts that the OP stubbornly obfuscates are the only facts that matter. Take Scenario 1 and Scenario 2:

Scenario 1: "I just finished an externship with a judge, and I'm applying for clerkships. I just found out that a clerk of one of the judges to whom I'm applying contacted one of the clerks of the judge I externed for."

Scenario 2: "I just finished a district court clerkship with a judge, and I'm applying for a COA clerskhips. I just found out that one of the judges to whom I'm applying called the judge I clerked for."

Scenario 1 could be about anything. Perhaps the clerks texted each other about the OP's horrible writing sample.

Scenario 2, by contrast, is an almost sure sign that the second judge is seriously considering OP for the position.

[GoneSouth]

I mean you guys could be a little charitable. I thought the clear question was toward clerks who do hiring along the lines of "if you're contacting someone's previous judge, does that mean you're seriously looking at them or it is just routine." You can also guess from context that he externed rather than clerked since he doesn't know the answer himself, but just a guess.

That said, it seems that a) the answer is probably serious look, and b) pupkin's jab re: language is pretty well-deserved, op you these aren't discovery responses or some shit

In defense of my snark, the facts that the OP stubbornly obfuscates are the only facts that matter. Take Scenario 1 and Scenario 2:

Scenario 1: "I just finished an externship with a judge, and I'm applying for clerkships. I just found out that a clerk of one of the judges to whom I'm applying contacted one of the clerks of the judge I externed for."

Scenario 2: "I just finished a district court clerkship with a judge, and I'm applying for a COA clerskhips. I just found out that one of the judges to whom I'm applying called the judge I clerked for."

Scenario 1 could be about anything. Perhaps the clerks texted each other about the OP's horrible writing sample.

Scenario 2, by contrast, is an almost sure sign that the second judge is seriously considering OP for the position.

It's also needless obfuscation too. Saying that you learned that a judge reached out to the chambers where you used to be an extern doesn't out you. That stuff happens all the time.

[Anonymous User]

I've accepted an interview with a judge, but after talking to a few of the former clerks, I've heard some not great things about the work environment that make me question whether I want to work there. What do I do?