Clerks Taking Questions Forum

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:27 pm

Yes. Judge's chambers are often slow to respond to this kind of thing. The JA is probably just trying to find a date and time that works for the judge. Relax and don't worry.
Could be any of those things or lots of others. No way to know, but it's completely normal, it almost certainly doesn't say anything about your application, and there's not much else you should do at this point.
Thanks, much appreciated. Still haven't heard anything, but I will trust the process.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:35 pm

Will judges give you a hard rejection at some point if you've interviewed?

I interviewed with a district court judge some time ago but haven't heard anything back (a month ish). Wondering if I'll ever get a hard no.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by mjb447 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Will judges give you a hard rejection at some point if you've interviewed?

I interviewed with a district court judge some time ago but haven't heard anything back (a month ish). Wondering if I'll ever get a hard no.
A "hard rejection" is the norm if you've interviewed, and a month's passing doesn't mean that you're out of contention yet. Of course, sometimes things do fall through the cracks. I have a friend who waited several months for a response post-interview and, when he eventually called chambers, they told him the position was filled a long time ago. (They acknowledged that they should've gotten back to him, but they also told him he should've "gotten the hint." :? ) I think that's very, very unusual for people who have been interviewed, though, and I don't think you're in that position yet.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:08 pm

mjb447 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Will judges give you a hard rejection at some point if you've interviewed?

I interviewed with a district court judge some time ago but haven't heard anything back (a month ish). Wondering if I'll ever get a hard no.
A "hard rejection" is the norm if you've interviewed, and a month's passing doesn't mean that you're out of contention yet. Of course, sometimes things do fall through the cracks. I have a friend who waited several months for a response post-interview and, when he eventually called chambers, they told him the position was filled a long time ago. (They acknowledged that they should've gotten back to him, but they also told him he should've "gotten the hint." :? ) I think that's very, very unusual for people who have been interviewed, though, and I don't think you're in that position yet.
Quoted poster here. Thanks for your insight on this.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by lavarman84 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:37 pm

mjb447 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Will judges give you a hard rejection at some point if you've interviewed?

I interviewed with a district court judge some time ago but haven't heard anything back (a month ish). Wondering if I'll ever get a hard no.
A "hard rejection" is the norm if you've interviewed, and a month's passing doesn't mean that you're out of contention yet. Of course, sometimes things do fall through the cracks. I have a friend who waited several months for a response post-interview and, when he eventually called chambers, they told him the position was filled a long time ago. (They acknowledged that they should've gotten back to him, but they also told him he should've "gotten the hint." :? ) I think that's very, very unusual for people who have been interviewed, though, and I don't think you're in that position yet.
That's a dickish response.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by mjb447 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:43 pm

lawman84 wrote:
mjb447 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Will judges give you a hard rejection at some point if you've interviewed?

I interviewed with a district court judge some time ago but haven't heard anything back (a month ish). Wondering if I'll ever get a hard no.
A "hard rejection" is the norm if you've interviewed, and a month's passing doesn't mean that you're out of contention yet. Of course, sometimes things do fall through the cracks. I have a friend who waited several months for a response post-interview and, when he eventually called chambers, they told him the position was filled a long time ago. (They acknowledged that they should've gotten back to him, but they also told him he should've "gotten the hint." :? ) I think that's very, very unusual for people who have been interviewed, though, and I don't think you're in that position yet.
That's a dickish response.
I hope you mean by chambers to that applicant and not by me to the anon!

If that's the case, I agree. May have dodged a bullet if the judge runs chambers that way in general.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:33 pm

Curious (for legit application advice): As someone with a non-DC/9/2 clerkship already, should I pursue Wilkinson (4th), or Henderson, J.R. Brown, and Griffith (DC)? Relevant info: will be working for a "well-respected" litigation shop in DC and plan on staying in DC for a long time; school has indicated support for a potential SCOTUS application down the road.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by lavarman84 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:54 pm

mjb447 wrote:
lawman84 wrote:
mjb447 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Will judges give you a hard rejection at some point if you've interviewed?

I interviewed with a district court judge some time ago but haven't heard anything back (a month ish). Wondering if I'll ever get a hard no.
A "hard rejection" is the norm if you've interviewed, and a month's passing doesn't mean that you're out of contention yet. Of course, sometimes things do fall through the cracks. I have a friend who waited several months for a response post-interview and, when he eventually called chambers, they told him the position was filled a long time ago. (They acknowledged that they should've gotten back to him, but they also told him he should've "gotten the hint." :? ) I think that's very, very unusual for people who have been interviewed, though, and I don't think you're in that position yet.
That's a dickish response.
I hope you mean by chambers to that applicant and not by me to the anon!

If that's the case, I agree. May have dodged a bullet if the judge runs chambers that way in general.
Yes. The "he should've gotten the hint" comment is a dickish response by chambers.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:Curious (for legit application advice): As someone with a non-DC/9/2 clerkship already, should I pursue Wilkinson (4th), or Henderson, J.R. Brown, and Griffith (DC)? Relevant info: will be working for a "well-respected" litigation shop in DC and plan on staying in DC for a long time; school has indicated support for a potential SCOTUS application down the road.
I'd certainly say yes. If your school thinks you're SCOTUS-applicant material and you already have a COA clerkship, then you're probably a competitive candidate for judges of that caliber. I know Griffith has made a pattern recently of hiring SCOTUS-caliber clerks who are coming off a previous COA clerkship; can't speak to the hiring habits of the other three.

The reasons not to apply would be: you have no interest in clerking for SCOTUS; you aren't going into a field where a Wilkinson or DC Circuit clerkship would be helpful above and beyond a COA clerkship; you can't afford a second year at clerking salary instead of biglaw salary. I can't address the last one for you, but if you're doing litigation in DC this type of opportunity would absolutely help you.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Goldie » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Curious (for legit application advice): As someone with a non-DC/9/2 clerkship already, should I pursue Wilkinson (4th), or Henderson, J.R. Brown, and Griffith (DC)? Relevant info: will be working for a "well-respected" litigation shop in DC and plan on staying in DC for a long time; school has indicated support for a potential SCOTUS application down the road.
I'd certainly say yes. If your school thinks you're SCOTUS-applicant material and you already have a COA clerkship, then you're probably a competitive candidate for judges of that caliber. I know Griffith has made a pattern recently of hiring SCOTUS-caliber clerks who are coming off a previous COA clerkship; can't speak to the hiring habits of the other three.

The reasons not to apply would be: you have no interest in clerking for SCOTUS; you aren't going into a field where a Wilkinson or DC Circuit clerkship would be helpful above and beyond a COA clerkship; you can't afford a second year at clerking salary instead of biglaw salary. I can't address the last one for you, but if you're doing litigation in DC this type of opportunity would absolutely help you.
I'm not sure if Wilkinson hires people for second-COA clerkships, although I know of at least one of his clerks that was hired for a second-COA clerkship by Griffith. Henderson has hired non-SCOTUS-quality second-COA clerks. JRB's hiring is late and a bit opaque, but I know of at least one clerk awhile ago who did their second-COA clerkship with her. Griffith does do this some, but he's already hired 3 of his 2019 spots, so you might be looking at a bit of a gap.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:57 pm

Serious but maybe dumb q: for those clerking who took out lots in loans (like $150k+) is it hard to live on like $60k?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by anon sequitur » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:07 pm

Not if you're on income based repayment. It's definitely a significant chunk of change, I think you'd pay around $400/month? If you're actually making $60k, it means you're not clerking a very high COL area, you'll be fine. Think of it like you're actually making $50k, and lots of people do that fine.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Serious but maybe dumb q: for those clerking who took out lots in loans (like $150k+) is it hard to live on like $60k?
It definitely isn't easy. It really depends on where you are living and what your situation looks like. I wasn't thinking and I refinanced right out of school, with a private lender. So, I am not locked into paying $1200 a month, every month, no matter what. I'm not left with much money for fun things, travel, or going out to eat. I make it work though.

If you do interest based repayment, you won't have much to pay your first year of clerking because I believe it is calculated off your previous years income. So, you'll essentially just be deferring the problem until next year when you make much more money. If I had done that, I'd probably be living quite comfortably this year - but alas, I'm still making do. Make a budget for yourself, live within your means and you'll be fine.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by lolwat » Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Serious but maybe dumb q: for those clerking who took out lots in loans (like $150k+) is it hard to live on like $60k?
It definitely isn't easy. It really depends on where you are living and what your situation looks like. I wasn't thinking and I refinanced right out of school, with a private lender. So, I am not locked into paying $1200 a month, every month, no matter what. I'm not left with much money for fun things, travel, or going out to eat. I make it work though.

If you do interest based repayment, you won't have much to pay your first year of clerking because I believe it is calculated off your previous years income. So, you'll essentially just be deferring the problem until next year when you make much more money. If I had done that, I'd probably be living quite comfortably this year - but alas, I'm still making do. Make a budget for yourself, live within your means and you'll be fine.
I think I had about 100k in loans so your payments would be higher than mine. But I clerked at a very low COL area where a clerkship paid like $60k and I don't think I did income based repayment, and everything was more than fine. In general, I'd imagine nearly everyone graduating from law school can find places to cut some costs and save some money if they have to, without having to live on cheap ramen noodles (not the awesome $10 per bowl kind) for a year. It'd be more difficult if you've got a family, but hopefully that means your spouse has some income, too.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:13 pm

Goldie wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Curious (for legit application advice): As someone with a non-DC/9/2 clerkship already, should I pursue Wilkinson (4th), or Henderson, J.R. Brown, and Griffith (DC)? Relevant info: will be working for a "well-respected" litigation shop in DC and plan on staying in DC for a long time; school has indicated support for a potential SCOTUS application down the road.
I'd certainly say yes. If your school thinks you're SCOTUS-applicant material and you already have a COA clerkship, then you're probably a competitive candidate for judges of that caliber. I know Griffith has made a pattern recently of hiring SCOTUS-caliber clerks who are coming off a previous COA clerkship; can't speak to the hiring habits of the other three.

The reasons not to apply would be: you have no interest in clerking for SCOTUS; you aren't going into a field where a Wilkinson or DC Circuit clerkship would be helpful above and beyond a COA clerkship; you can't afford a second year at clerking salary instead of biglaw salary. I can't address the last one for you, but if you're doing litigation in DC this type of opportunity would absolutely help you.
I'm not sure if Wilkinson hires people for second-COA clerkships, although I know of at least one of his clerks that was hired for a second-COA clerkship by Griffith. Henderson has hired non-SCOTUS-quality second-COA clerks. JRB's hiring is late and a bit opaque, but I know of at least one clerk awhile ago who did their second-COA clerkship with her. Griffith does do this some, but he's already hired 3 of his 2019 spots, so you might be looking at a bit of a gap.
Also, why no Silberman, Sentelle, Randolph, Williams, or Ginsburg? They also still send clerks to the Court, and a bunch of them (Silberman, Sentelle come to mind) definitely have taken people who have already done COA clerkships

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by jrf12886 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:15 pm

When I started clerking I had about 95k in loans. Since I had a year experience my salary was about 75k after the NY COL adjustment. I was able to live fairly comfortably in NYC (had a roommate, though). I didn't save anything that year.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Goldie wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Curious (for legit application advice): As someone with a non-DC/9/2 clerkship already, should I pursue Wilkinson (4th), or Henderson, J.R. Brown, and Griffith (DC)? Relevant info: will be working for a "well-respected" litigation shop in DC and plan on staying in DC for a long time; school has indicated support for a potential SCOTUS application down the road.

Also, why no Silberman, Sentelle, Randolph, Williams, or Ginsburg? They also still send clerks to the Court, and a bunch of them (Silberman, Sentelle come to mind) definitely have taken people who have already done COA clerkships
Thanks for the feedback so far, particularly on the tip about how Griffith is nearly full :cry: . Sentelle was an accidental omission on my part. It doesn't look like Silberman has sent anyone to SCOTUS since at least OT 2009. And I'd like to maximize my chances if I do another COA clerkship, which explains the omission of the last three (although since OT 2010 Ginsburg's sent 3, Randolph 4, and Williams 2 -- but each of them are now on senior status).

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:03 pm

JR Brown doesn't actually send up that often, and may also be taking senior soon.

Randolph is a great judge but I'd be surprised if he sends any more upstairs.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:32 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Goldie wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Curious (for legit application advice): As someone with a non-DC/9/2 clerkship already, should I pursue Wilkinson (4th), or Henderson, J.R. Brown, and Griffith (DC)? Relevant info: will be working for a "well-respected" litigation shop in DC and plan on staying in DC for a long time; school has indicated support for a potential SCOTUS application down the road.
I'd certainly say yes. If your school thinks you're SCOTUS-applicant material and you already have a COA clerkship, then you're probably a competitive candidate for judges of that caliber. I know Griffith has made a pattern recently of hiring SCOTUS-caliber clerks who are coming off a previous COA clerkship; can't speak to the hiring habits of the other three.

The reasons not to apply would be: you have no interest in clerking for SCOTUS; you aren't going into a field where a Wilkinson or DC Circuit clerkship would be helpful above and beyond a COA clerkship; you can't afford a second year at clerking salary instead of biglaw salary. I can't address the last one for you, but if you're doing litigation in DC this type of opportunity would absolutely help you.
I'm not sure if Wilkinson hires people for second-COA clerkships, although I know of at least one of his clerks that was hired for a second-COA clerkship by Griffith. Henderson has hired non-SCOTUS-quality second-COA clerks. JRB's hiring is late and a bit opaque, but I know of at least one clerk awhile ago who did their second-COA clerkship with her. Griffith does do this some, but he's already hired 3 of his 2019 spots, so you might be looking at a bit of a gap.
Also, why no Silberman, Sentelle, Randolph, Williams, or Ginsburg? They also still send clerks to the Court, and a bunch of them (Silberman, Sentelle come to mind) definitely have taken people who have already done COA clerkships
Original responding anon here--I agree that all of these judges are good ideas. Even if some of them don't really feed anymore, if your goal is appellate work in DC, any DC Circuit clerkship will be helpful above and beyond a clerkship on another circuit.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:54 pm

This is totally subjective obviously but what do people think a reasonable commute is?

Opportunity for a clerkship in the middle of nowhere and a cool city (relatively) is about an hour away. Has anyone done this before or is it not worth it?

Cant move to the clerkship city because spouse/family

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by jrf12886 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This is totally subjective obviously but what do people think a reasonable commute is?

Opportunity for a clerkship in the middle of nowhere and a cool city (relatively) is about an hour away. Has anyone done this before or is it not worth it?

Cant move to the clerkship city because spouse/family
For me, an hour is the absolute max I would do. I had about an hour commute (on the subway) to my first clerkship, but then moved closer to the courthouse and had a 25 minute commute.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by mjb447 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This is totally subjective obviously but what do people think a reasonable commute is?

Opportunity for a clerkship in the middle of nowhere and a cool city (relatively) is about an hour away. Has anyone done this before or is it not worth it?

Cant move to the clerkship city because spouse/family
Any idea what your workday is going to be like? For me, an hour-long commute would be very doable for a year if it was usually something like 8 - 9 AM and 5 - 6 PM, but less so if I was regularly expected to be there earlier and stay later.

(It would also probably depend on how heavy traffic typically was - light and medium traffic aren't a problem, but I don't think I'd deal well with regular bumper-to-bumper.)

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:22 pm

I realize this probably #DependsOnTheFirm, but does anyone have any data points regarding when your post-clerkship biglaw firm reimbursed you for bar expenses (assuming that you incurred these expenses, and that you did not have a summer firm reimburse you for them).

Upon accepting a post-clerkship offer at a V20 firm, the email said that I will get X% of my $50K clerkship bonus when my clerkship ends, and the rest will be paid during my first week at the firm. The email also said that I can be reimbursed for any bar expenses (which is a sizable chunk of change for me, around $3,500), but didn't say when this would happen.

tl;dr: Can I anticipate getting reimbursed for my bar expenses at the same time as I get the advance on my clerkship bonus? (giving me more financial flexibility on a post-clerkship trip I am planning)

I realize I could just email someone at the firm, but I don't want to seem needy/gauche.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by lolwat » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This is totally subjective obviously but what do people think a reasonable commute is?

Opportunity for a clerkship in the middle of nowhere and a cool city (relatively) is about an hour away. Has anyone done this before or is it not worth it?

Cant move to the clerkship city because spouse/family
1-1.5 hour commute is the most I could handle doing for a year, and that's assuming hours are pretty reasonable so you don't have to get up at 5 in the morning or leave at 10 at night and have to drive for an hour. Better if you could take a train or something so you can work/nap/chill during the commute, but I doubt that's an option for a clerkship in the middle of nowhere.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:45 pm

I have a district court clerkship for 2018-2019. How much easier does that make it in finding a circuit court clerkship for 2019-2020? When I applied for circuit court clerkships throughout the country for 2018-2019, I only got one interview invite (no offer) in a flyover circuit.

Edit: I'm graduating in 2018 if that's any help.

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