Clerks Taking Questions Forum

[jrf12886]

I have a district court clerkship for 2018-2019. How much easier does that make it in finding a circuit court clerkship for 2019-2020? When I applied for circuit court clerkships throughout the country for 2018-2019, I only got one interview invite (no offer) in a flyover circuit.

Edit: I'm graduating in 2018 if that's any help.

it varies from judge to judge, but generally speaking, I think it helps quite a bit, especially with the circuit judges in the circuit where your district clerkship is. Some circuit judges even require a prior district court clerkship, although that is probably the minority of circuit judges.

My personal view is that this is less about circuit judges valuing the prior district court experience and more about the fact that having a district court clerkship signals that you have certain credentials and that another judged liked you during an interview.

[Goldie]

Curious (for legit application advice): As someone with a non-DC/9/2 clerkship already, should I pursue Wilkinson (4th), or Henderson, J.R. Brown, and Griffith (DC)? Relevant info: will be working for a "well-respected" litigation shop in DC and plan on staying in DC for a long time; school has indicated support for a potential SCOTUS application down the road.

Also, why no Silberman, Sentelle, Randolph, Williams, or Ginsburg? They also still send clerks to the Court, and a bunch of them (Silberman, Sentelle come to mind) definitely have taken people who have already done COA clerkships

Thanks for the feedback so far, particularly on the tip about how Griffith is nearly full . Sentelle was an accidental omission on my part. It doesn't look like Silberman has sent anyone to SCOTUS since at least OT 2009. And I'd like to maximize my chances if I do another COA clerkship, which explains the omission of the last three (although since OT 2010 Ginsburg's sent 3, Randolph 4, and Williams 2 -- but each of them are now on senior status).

Besides, Silberman only has a clerk a year and he has already hired his clerks for the 2018 and 2019 terms (at least 2016-2019 clerks were all HLS people).

[clerk1251]

I realize this probably #DependsOnTheFirm, but does anyone have any data points regarding when your post-clerkship biglaw firm reimbursed you for bar expenses (assuming that you incurred these expenses, and that you did not have a summer firm reimburse you for them).

Upon accepting a post-clerkship offer at a V20 firm, the email said that I will get X% of my $50K clerkship bonus when my clerkship ends, and the rest will be paid during my first week at the firm. The email also said that I can be reimbursed for any bar expenses (which is a sizable chunk of change for me, around $3,500), but didn't say when this would happen.

tl;dr: Can I anticipate getting reimbursed for my bar expenses at the same time as I get the advance on my clerkship bonus? (giving me more financial flexibility on a post-clerkship trip I am planning)

I realize I could just email someone at the firm, but I don't want to seem needy/gauche.

I've never heard of a firm reimbursing for bar expenses post clerkship. Typically the signing bonus would encompass any bar fees. There could be some out there that will cover bar expenses on top of this, as is evident from the sounds of the firm you are going to, but I don't believe it is common practice.

EDIT: This is assuming you took the bar right after law school and went to clerk right away for one - two years. If you had any other job between the bar and clerkship, no firm will reimburse. If you need to take a new bar during or post clerkship, for the firm you will be going to, then obviously they will reimburse that.

[Anonymous User]

W&C tells summers who are clerking that they will reimburse all bar expenses if/once the students return to the firm. I assume they'd also do that for their non-summer, post-clerkship hires?

[Anonymous User]

W&C tells summers who are clerking that they will reimburse all bar expenses if/once the students return to the firm. I assume they'd also do that for their non-summer, post-clerkship hires?

GDC does the same thing for people who summered there (unsure if they do it for people who haven't summered, but join after clerking). They'll reimburse all expenses (MPRE fees, bar exam fees, bar review course, etc.) when you join the firm after clerkship(s). Just keep your receipts.

[Anonymous User]

Have a clerkship lined up with a magistrate in SDNY / DDC, and I'm now trying to find a good balance in applying for DC / CoA judges for the following term. Essentially, I'm wondering to what extent the magistrate position improves my application. I'd like to target CoA's a little more heavily, but I don't want to run the risk of applying for jobs I definitely can't get and then not ending up with a second year of clerking (which I would like to have). General thoughts on how judges look at magistrate positions from these districts? Am a pretty run-of-the-mill candidate otherwise (10% at a t-14, journal, interned at 2d, 9th, or DDC).

Avoid quoting, if you could be so kind.

[lolwat]

I don't know how much a magistrate clerkship helps your chances, but aren't those stats pretty competitive for a COA even without a magistrate clerkship? I don't think you're running into a "definitely can't get" problem other than feeders

[mjb447]

Yeah, for both this anon and the earlier one who wanted to know how much a DJ clerkship would help his CoA apps (and had previously obtained one CoA interview), in the absence of other info I'd say def worth applying broadly to non-feeders, particularly in less competitive locations if they're willing. Few people are shoo-ins - CoAs are inundated with qualified people and, like most judges, weird things can attract their attention - but applying would be far from futile in both cases. Also, the downside is virtually nil if they already have all their clerkship application materials together.

[Anonymous User]

W&C tells summers who are clerking that they will reimburse all bar expenses if/once the students return to the firm. I assume they'd also do that for their non-summer, post-clerkship hires?

GDC does the same thing for people who summered there (unsure if they do it for people who haven't summered, but join after clerking). They'll reimburse all expenses (MPRE fees, bar exam fees, bar review course, etc.) when you join the firm after clerkship(s). Just keep your receipts.

So GDC pays it upon actually starting at the firm, not upon signing on the dotted line right after the clerkship ends?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone see any utility in a circuit clerkship prior to a district court clerkship?

Was planning on shooting for a district clerkship then circuit court, but a professor writing a rec letter recommended considering the reverse instead. Currently top 5% at MVP (with one semester of grades)

[FloridaCoastalorbust]

Does anyone see any utility in a circuit clerkship prior to a district court clerkship?

Was planning on shooting for a district clerkship then circuit court, but a professor writing a rec letter recommended considering the reverse instead. Currently top 5% at MVP (with one semester of grades)

There's utility in whichever order you pick -- people do both. If you think you're more interested in appellate work, I'd recommend going for a COA first.

[rpupkin]

Does anyone see any utility in a circuit clerkship prior to a district court clerkship?

Was planning on shooting for a district clerkship then circuit court, but a professor writing a rec letter recommended considering the reverse instead. Currently top 5% at MVP (with one semester of grades)

Your professor has a good point. A COA clerkship is much more like law school than a district-court clerkship. It's relatively slow paced, with reading long briefs and drafting longish memos/opinions. Most district-court clerkships are faster paced with more quickly-written orders and memos. It's closer to the pace and work of a law firm.

If you're going to do two clerkships, I think the easiest transition is: Law school ---> COA ---> District Ct.--->Law Firm/Gov't/PI

[quiver]

Does anyone see any utility in a circuit clerkship prior to a district court clerkship?

Was planning on shooting for a district clerkship then circuit court, but a professor writing a rec letter recommended considering the reverse instead. Currently top 5% at MVP (with one semester of grades)

Your professor has a good point. A COA clerkship is much more like law school than a district-court clerkship. It's relatively slow paced, with reading long briefs and drafting longish memos/opinions. Most district-court clerkships are faster paced with more quickly-written orders and memos. It's closer to the pace and work of a law firm.

If you're going to do two clerkships, I think the easiest transition is: Law school ---> COA ---> District Ct.--->Law Firm/Gov't/PI

100% agree.

[OutCold]

Serious but maybe dumb q: for those clerking who took out lots in loans (like $150k+) is it hard to live on like $60k?

I clerked out of school with 275k in loans. Rather than IBR I stretched them out to 25 year repayment so I was paying the interest and a small amount of principle. Worked out to about $1200 a month, which was doable even though I was in a major city. I was splitting my apartment with my fiance at the time and we were living in a not so desirable area to keep costs down though. IBR would be less, obviously, but you will be reverse amortizing. I also clerked again after a year at a firm and have been fine even with my $3000/month payments on the ~85k salary.

[Anonymous User]

Serious but maybe dumb q: for those clerking who took out lots in loans (like $150k+) is it hard to live on like $60k?

I clerked out of school with 275k in loans. Rather than IBR I stretched them out to 25 year repayment so I was paying the interest and a small amount of principle. Worked out to about $1200 a month, which was doable even though I was in a major city. I was splitting my apartment with my fiance at the time and we were living in a not so desirable area to keep costs down though. IBR would be less, obviously, but you will be reverse amortizing. I also clerked again after a year at a firm and have been fine even with my $3000/month payments on the ~85k salary.

I will also be doing clerk --> year at a firm --> clerk. Do you have any advice on those transitions? When did you tell your firm that you were leaving, and how did that go? (I'm nearing the end of a d.ct. clerkship and have the gap firm and second COA clerkship lined up).

[OutCold]

I will also be doing clerk --> year at a firm --> clerk. Do you have any advice on those transitions? When did you tell your firm that you were leaving, and how did that go? (I'm nearing the end of a d.ct. clerkship and have the gap firm and second COA clerkship lined up).

It's a pretty painless transition. I was at a large NY firm where people routinely leave to clerk, so I wasn't difficult to replace. I told my case teams I was leaving with about three months of lead time so that they could pull in other people to start getting a handle on the case and so they could plan for developments down the road. I didn't formally tell the firm administration until closer to my departure, but they don't really care. All that matters is that the case teams can smoothly transition your roles to someone else. I intended to change markets after clerking, so I wasn't concerned about burning bridges, but no large firm will bat an eye at a junior associate going to clerk. Some firms have policies that they do not extend an offer to return until you reapply at the end of your clerkship, but there was a wink and nod exit review in which they made it pretty clear that we would be extended an offer when we reapplied.

I would wait as long as you are comfortable to tell anyone other than your close friends, since teams will be hesitant to involve you in important roles that might extend past your departure.

[Anonymous User]

I am traveling home next month for a week. 1) Should I contact the judges that I applied to to let them know I'll be in the area? 2) I am applying to a few more judges in the area. Should I mention the dates that I will be home in the cover letter?

[clerk1251]

I am traveling home next month for a week. 1) Should I contact the judges that I applied to to let them know I'll be in the area? 2) I am applying to a few more judges in the area. Should I mention the dates that I will be home in the cover letter?

I see no harm in doing this.

[jrf12886]

I am traveling home next month for a week. 1) Should I contact the judges that I applied to to let them know I'll be in the area? 2) I am applying to a few more judges in the area. Should I mention the dates that I will be home in the cover letter?

Yes, that's fine.

[Anonymous User]

I've got a 18-19 clerkship and will be applying shortly for a 19-20 clerkship. Do I need to tell my judge about applying to other judges for 19-20 either before or after I apply (or neither)?

[Pure Applesauce]

I've got a 18-19 clerkship and will be applying shortly for a 19-20 clerkship. Do I need to tell my judge about applying to other judges for 19-20 either before or after I apply (or neither)?

These were answers I previously received

as long as there's no date conflict you should be fine. you could coord just to be nice but its such a longshot there's little need to involve the judge unless you want his recommendation, which really can't come til you've worked for him (thus likely pushing the COA clerkship further into the future).

The biggest way this would affect your d. ct. judge is probably the timing of your departure, but that's an easier subject to talk about when you're a little farther along in the process, like after you've been invited to interview with a COA judge who's posted a rough start date on OSCAR (although that could be different if you're applying for COA positions that will cut into your d. ct. clerkship time significantly). I talked to my d. ct. judge before applying for positions just because judges like being in the loop, but I don't know that you need to.

[mjb447]

I've got a 18-19 clerkship and will be applying shortly for a 19-20 clerkship. Do I need to tell my judge about applying to other judges for 19-20 either before or after I apply (or neither)?

I might give the 18-19 judge a heads up if you get an interview for a position that's likely going to affect the length of your 18-19 term (e.g. your anticipated term with 18-19 judge is October - October and you get an interview for a position that starts in late August or early September). Otherwise, I can't think of why you'd "need to," although you'd probably be alright mentioning it too.

ETA scooped, but clearly I agree. (I might be the quoted anon.)

[rpupkin]

I've got a 18-19 clerkship and will be applying shortly for a 19-20 clerkship. Do I need to tell my judge about applying to other judges for 19-20 either before or after I apply (or neither)?

If you have an occasion to see your judge--like you're visiting the city in which the judge works and he invites you to chambers for lunch--I'd mention that you're applying to judges for 19-20. But you definitely don't need to go out of your way to tell the judge about your plans. The other advice you've received here is solid.

[Anonymous User]

I applied to a last minute opening for a 2017 D. Court clerkship. Judge only accepted paper apps and I mailed my app in about a week before the interview date. Didn't hear anything but it was probably too late so I didn't think much of it.

I just noticed a 2018 opening for the same judge on OSCAR. Should I send in another paper app? My cover letter for the first app said I was looking for a 2017 clerkship.

[quiver]

I applied to a last minute opening for a 2017 D. Court clerkship. Judge only accepted paper apps and I mailed my app in about a week before the interview date. Didn't hear anything but it was probably too late so I didn't think much of it.

I just noticed a 2018 opening for the same judge on OSCAR. Should I send in another paper app? My cover letter for the first app said I was looking for a 2017 clerkship.

Sure, doesn't hurt.