Clerks Taking Questions Forum

[flashdril]

There's a box of 80 sheets of resume paper for $5.47 on the Walmart website.

But, you know, never give up your "principles."

[GoneSouth]

There's a box of 80 sheets of resume paper for $5.47 on the Walmart website.

But, you know, never give up your "principles."

Seriously. Using resume paper is not expensive, never going to hurt you, and could help you. Why would you not do it?

[Mr. Blackacre]

There's a box of 80 sheets of resume paper for $5.47 on the Walmart website.

But, you know, never give up your "principles."

Seriously. Using resume paper is not expensive, never going to hurt you, and could help you. Why would you not do it?

Personally, I've always thought that using resume paper is pretentious. Probably because I'm young enough to not have been around when everyone used it, and I just don't understand the point when people use copier paper for everything nowadays. Like someone else said, I certainly wouldn't want to work for someone who rejects applicants based on the paper they use for their resume anyway. I know it sounds dumb (it is dumb, really), but I never used it and I didn't stop me from getting BL + clerkship either. YMMV.

[lolwat]

I certainly wouldn't want to work for someone who rejects applicants based on the paper they use for their resume anyway.

I don't think it's so much that judges reject applicants based on the paper they use versus applicants trying to get that 0.01% edge over the other 200 equally qualified applications that the judge looks at. If you've clerked and done hiring before you know that even after you cut all of the obviously unqualified people, there's still a gigantic mass of applications from qualified people. The stats are what they are, so other than getting calls in from professors, previous clerks, or other connections to the judge, all of these tiny little "marginal benefits" are the only ways people can try to stand out from the rest. Whether that's worth the time and 20 cents per paper is for every individual to determine for themselves, but I'd recommend it to anyone asking for advice around here.

[lavarman84]

There's a box of 80 sheets of resume paper for $5.47 on the Walmart website.

But, you know, never give up your "principles."

Seriously. Using resume paper is not expensive, never going to hurt you, and could help you. Why would you not do it?

A combination of stubbornness + cheapness + a lot of copier paper.

[Anonymous User]

I have a d ct. clerkship lined up for 17-18 that I want to flip into another clerkship for 18-19 or 18-20. Some of the openings require three recommendation letters and I don't even have a personal relationship with three profs. What is better to do in this situation: Ask a prof. I don't really know who's class I did well in, or get a letter from someone other than a prof. i.e. an attorney I worked for during law school that is very familiar with me and my work?

[Anonymous User]

I have a d ct. clerkship lined up for 17-18 that I want to flip into another clerkship for 18-19 or 18-20. Some of the openings require three recommendation letters and I don't even have a personal relationship with three profs. What is better to do in this situation: Ask a prof. I don't really know who's class I did well in, or get a letter from someone other than a prof. i.e. an attorney I worked for during law school that is very familiar with me and my work?

How did you get a district court clerkship without knowing professors?

[lolwat]

I have a d ct. clerkship lined up for 17-18 that I want to flip into another clerkship for 18-19 or 18-20. Some of the openings require three recommendation letters and I don't even have a personal relationship with three profs. What is better to do in this situation: Ask a prof. I don't really know who's class I did well in, or get a letter from someone other than a prof. i.e. an attorney I worked for during law school that is very familiar with me and my work?

Rec from atty. But if you're a student, try to get at least one prof rec. It looks really weird for a current student not to have one at all.

[Anonymous User]

My goals are unicorn public interest jobs. Top 5-10% at lower T-14, and slated for SSC and D. Ct. clerkships. I'm thinking of applying to some feeder CoA's -- is that clerkship overkill?

[mjb447]

Yeah, someone who has a personal relationship with you (and can speak about your work) > someone who can't.

[rpupkin]

My goals are unicorn public interest jobs. Top 5-10% at lower T-14, and slated for SSC and D. Ct. clerkships. I'm thinking of applying to some feeder CoA's -- is that clerkship overkill?

You aren't getting a feeder clerkship with just top 5 - 10% grades at a lower T14. The only thing that would give you any sort of shot is a well-connected prof who really wants to go to bat for you, but you apparently don't have that.

[Mr. Blackacre]

My goals are unicorn public interest jobs. Top 5-10% at lower T-14, and slated for SSC and D. Ct. clerkships. I'm thinking of applying to some feeder CoA's -- is that clerkship overkill?

You aren't getting a feeder clerkship with just top 5 - 10% grades at a lower T14. The only thing that would give you any sort of shot is a well-connected prof who really wants to go to bat for you, but you apparently don't have that.

At least with top 5% from lower T14, a feeder isn't out of the realm of possibilities. I also think OP is a different anon from the guy who doesn't have any personal connections, so it's very possible that he knows a well-connected professor.

I'd be intrigued to know the answer to this question. I'd lean towards thinking a third clerkship is overkill, but I wonder how much better the exit opportunities are after clerking for a top feeder.

[rpupkin]

My goals are unicorn public interest jobs. Top 5-10% at lower T-14, and slated for SSC and D. Ct. clerkships. I'm thinking of applying to some feeder CoA's -- is that clerkship overkill?

You aren't getting a feeder clerkship with just top 5 - 10% grades at a lower T14. The only thing that would give you any sort of shot is a well-connected prof who really wants to go to bat for you, but you apparently don't have that.

At least with top 5% from lower T14, a feeder isn't out of the realm of possibilities. I also think OP is a different anon from the guy who doesn't have any personal connections, so it's very possible that he knows a well-connected professor.

I'd be intrigued to know the answer to this question. I'd lean towards thinking a third clerkship is overkill, but I wonder how much better the exit opportunities are after clerking for a top feeder.

It depends on what you want to do and who the feeder's connections are.

Also, the "top feeders" (Garland, Kavanaugh, Katzmann) aren't going to hire the anon poster.

[Mr. Blackacre]

My goals are unicorn public interest jobs. Top 5-10% at lower T-14, and slated for SSC and D. Ct. clerkships. I'm thinking of applying to some feeder CoA's -- is that clerkship overkill?

You aren't getting a feeder clerkship with just top 5 - 10% grades at a lower T14. The only thing that would give you any sort of shot is a well-connected prof who really wants to go to bat for you, but you apparently don't have that.

At least with top 5% from lower T14, a feeder isn't out of the realm of possibilities. I also think OP is a different anon from the guy who doesn't have any personal connections, so it's very possible that he knows a well-connected professor.

I'd be intrigued to know the answer to this question. I'd lean towards thinking a third clerkship is overkill, but I wonder how much better the exit opportunities are after clerking for a top feeder.

It depends on what you want to do and who the feeder's connections are.

Lol that's a very non-committal answer. I guess that this kind of question is very hard to answer in the abstract. I know I'm hijacking OP, but to be a bit clearer with an example, I am wondering how much more value a feeder clerkship can bring you when trying to integrate an agency / USAO in the circuit the feeder is - or even that the feeder judge worked for at some point - when compared to a similar situation coming out of a regular CoA clerkship, or a district court clerkship with a reputed judge in the relevant district.

Feel free to tell me this is still way too broad a question to be answerable.

EDIT: also yes, I assumed when you said you don't get feeder clerkships from top 5% lower T14, you were thinking more Kavanaugh than say, Sentelle.

[rpupkin]

My goals are unicorn public interest jobs. Top 5-10% at lower T-14, and slated for SSC and D. Ct. clerkships. I'm thinking of applying to some feeder CoA's -- is that clerkship overkill?

You aren't getting a feeder clerkship with just top 5 - 10% grades at a lower T14. The only thing that would give you any sort of shot is a well-connected prof who really wants to go to bat for you, but you apparently don't have that.

At least with top 5% from lower T14, a feeder isn't out of the realm of possibilities. I also think OP is a different anon from the guy who doesn't have any personal connections, so it's very possible that he knows a well-connected professor.

I'd be intrigued to know the answer to this question. I'd lean towards thinking a third clerkship is overkill, but I wonder how much better the exit opportunities are after clerking for a top feeder.

It depends on what you want to do and who the feeder's connections are.

Lol that's a very non-committal answer. I guess that this kind of question is very hard to answer in the abstract. I know I'm hijacking OP, but to be a bit clearer with an example, I am wondering how much more value a feeder clerkship can bring you when trying to integrate an agency / USAO in the circuit the feeder is - or even that the feeder judge worked for at some point - when compared to a similar situation coming out of a regular CoA clerkship, or a district court clerkship with a reputed judge in the relevant district.

Feel free to tell me this is still way too broad a question to be answerable.

Yeah, it's too broad. I think you're thinking of a "feeder" clerkship as a signaling mechanism tantamount to going to HYS for law school. It's not quite like that. The USAO is a nice example of where clerking for a "feeder" would be close to meaningless for your chances. Sure, if your "feeder" judge worked in the division of USAO you're targeting, that could help you a lot, but that would have everything to do with your judge's past experience/connections and basically nothing to do with the fact that your judge currently sends lots of clerks to SCOTUS.

Just to use an example, Paul Watford has been sending some clerks to SCOTUS. But even if he had sent zero clerks to SCOTUS since being confirmed, he would still be a great judge to clerk for if you were targeting an AUSA position in CD Cal.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, my experience is not with the most elite USAOs, so they may care more about signaling. Generally, though, unless there is an appellate-specific opening that you're aiming for, no one at a USAO is going to care that you clerked for a COA, let alone with a feeder. Clerking with a judge who has connections to the office, whatever level judge that is, will help, but not because the person is a feeder (so basically, what rpupkin said).

[Mr. Blackacre]

Yeah, it's too broad. I think you're thinking of a "feeder" clerkship as a signaling mechanism tantamount to going to HYS for law school. It's not quite like that. The USAO is a nice example of where clerking for a "feeder" would be close to meaningless for your chances. Yes, if your "feeder" judge worked in the division of USAO you're targeting, that could help you a lot, but that would have everything to do with your judge's past experience and basically nothing to do with the fact that your judge currently sends lots of clerks to SCOTUS.

Yeah, my experience is not with the most elite USAOs, so they may care more about signaling. Generally, though, unless there is an appellate-specific opening that you're aiming for, no one at a USAO is going to care that you clerked for a COA, let alone with a feeder. Clerking with a judge who has connections to the office, whatever level judge that is, will help, but not because the person is a feeder (so basically, what rpupkin said).

Cool. That's more or less how I imagined the clerkship boost would work, but a lot of people on this forum / law students depict feeder clerkships as the end all, be all (basically like rpupkin said, tantamount to going to HYS), so I was wondering if I was missing something.

[Anonymous User]

I have a d ct. clerkship lined up for 17-18 that I want to flip into another clerkship for 18-19 or 18-20. Some of the openings require three recommendation letters and I don't even have a personal relationship with three profs. What is better to do in this situation: Ask a prof. I don't really know who's class I did well in, or get a letter from someone other than a prof. i.e. an attorney I worked for during law school that is very familiar with me and my work?

How did you get a district court clerkship without knowing professors?

I know profs, just not that many. The clerkship I got didn't require as many letters and isn't in a competitive district. I graduated this year.

Thanks to everyone that responded.

[Anonymous User]

My goals are unicorn public interest jobs. Top 5-10% at lower T-14, and slated for SSC and D. Ct. clerkships. I'm thinking of applying to some feeder CoA's -- is that clerkship overkill?

You aren't getting a feeder clerkship with just top 5 - 10% grades at a lower T14. The only thing that would give you any sort of shot is a well-connected prof who really wants to go to bat for you, but you apparently don't have that.

I'm a different anon than the one who has no connections to professors. I have several profs who are well-connected and going to bat for me. And not shooting for a top-feeder, just well-regarded judges who have fed before.

Appreciate the answer about USAO's. Is that also true if you're shooting for an appellate specific PI job?

[rpupkin]

Appreciate the answer about USAO's. Is that also true if you're shooting for an appellate specific PI job?

I don't know; I don't work in PI. But my guess is that the answer is roughly the same: it depends on your judge, your judge's reputation, and your judge's connections. Like, if your goal is to work in an appellate group of the ACLU, a clerkship for a feeder like Wilkinson, O'Scannlain, or Sutton probably wouldn't help you (and could possibly hurt you).

[lolwat]

Appreciate the answer about USAO's. Is that also true if you're shooting for an appellate specific PI job?

Those exist???

[Anonymous User]

If a judge has two postings up on OSCAR for essentially the same term (like, one starts in June and the other in August), any thoughts on applying to both vs. just applying to one?

[rpupkin]

If a judge has two postings up on OSCAR for essentially the same term (like, one starts in June and the other in August), any thoughts on applying to both vs. just applying to one?

Apply to one.

[Barrred]

If a judge has two postings up on OSCAR for essentially the same term (like, one starts in June and the other in August), any thoughts on applying to both vs. just applying to one?

Apply to one.

Disagree. I'd apply to both on OSCAR, or at least clearly indicate in your cover letter that you are applying for both start dates. My judge staggered clerk start dates over months like this, and sometimes we would filter on OSCAR by "term start date" if we were looking to schedule interviews for a particular start date over another (often the case for less desirable start dates). While it might seem obvious that someone applying for one start date would also be okay with starting on a different date in the same term, there are instances where that isn't the case (for instance, due to conflicts with other clerkships), and therefore you want to convey to Chambers that you are applying to both. While submitting two identical apps on OSCAR will clutter the judge's OSCAR folders, I would say that it is worth it to not be accidentally filtered out.

[rpupkin]

If a judge has two postings up on OSCAR for essentially the same term (like, one starts in June and the other in August), any thoughts on applying to both vs. just applying to one?

Apply to one.

Disagree. I'd apply to both on OSCAR, or at least clearly indicate in your cover letter that you are applying for both start dates.

Yeah, I was assuming Anon would do the bolded, but I don't think that doubling up on applications is a good idea. I doubt it will have the effect that you think it will. I could be wrong, though.