Clerks Taking Questions Forum

[lavarman84]

At what point should you re-apply to a judge? Like, if I applied for the 2020-2021 term, it's clear hiring has ended, and they're now advertising for 2021-2022, do I go ahead and send in a new application, or just assume they have my old one on file and if I didn't get it, there's a reason why? I'm asking about paper applications in particular.

Yes, reapply.

[Anonymous User]

Is it normal to reapply to judges when you were given an interview and didn't get the position? I felt like the interview went really well but ended up not getting it. Worth reapplying or will it be a waste of time?

[anon sequitur]

yeah, go for it. Like as not the judge would have been happy to hire you but you got beaten out by someone they liked just a little bit more. No shame in that, and no reason not to try again.

[mjb447]

Is it normal to reapply to judges when you were given an interview and didn't get the position? I felt like the interview went really well but ended up not getting it. Worth reapplying or will it be a waste of time?

Reapply. You have virtually nothing to lose.

[HillandHollow]

Is it normal to reapply to judges when you were given an interview and didn't get the position? I felt like the interview went really well but ended up not getting it. Worth reapplying or will it be a waste of time?

Definitely re-apply.

Two examples:
(1) For a recent hiring decision, it came down to two people, and we went with Person 2, but it could have gone either way because we also really liked Person 1. We have a new opening up now, and if Person 1 had even applied, we probably would have had a quick phone call in lieu of a second interview, and offered immediately.

(2) I got my first clerkship as a re-apply. I did the full interview and stuff the first time around, but didn't get the offer. Then, when I applied for the following year, I just had to do an informal interview (like a coffee and chat), which the chambers scheduled around a time when I was going to be in the area anyway.

[Anonymous User]

For alumni applicants, how are calls from workplace recommenders received in chambers as opposed to professor or judge recommenders? I am a few years out from graduation and have a very close mentor at work who wrote one of my LORs and could strongly advocate for me (particularly on why I applied to certain judges/that I’d be a guaranteed acceptance if offered), but don’t want to ask them to call if it wouldn’t carry any water. FWIW, none of my recommenders has connections to the judges I applied to.

[Anonymous User]

For alumni applicants, how are calls from workplace recommenders received in chambers as opposed to professor or judge recommenders? I am a few years out from graduation and have a very close mentor at work who wrote one of my LORs and could strongly advocate for me (particularly on why I applied to certain judges/that I’d be a guaranteed acceptance if offered), but don’t want to ask them to call if it wouldn’t carry any water. FWIW, none of my recommenders has connections to the judges I applied to.

Can’t speak from an in-chambers POV, but I got my clerkship because a former work supervisor emailed my judge vouching for me and sending my resume. He had some personal connection with the judge though, so I’m not sure how things would’ve been different without that. But it’s worth a shot. I don’t think it would hurt your chances, especially if you ask them to play up things that would be directly relevant to clerking.

[Anonymous User]

General question I'm worried about after accepting:

How much do firms hate when you go to the firm for a year, then clerk, then go back to the firm?

[Anonymous User]

When a post on OSCAR says something like "interviews will be conducted in July," is it generally the case that interview invites will go out in July or way beforehand? Basically, the application period opened up earlier this week and so far it's been radio silence from this chambers (Professor called for me and have ties to the small market where it's located). Should I start giving up hope?

[Anonymous User]

When a post on OSCAR says something like "interviews will be conducted in July," is it generally the case that interview invites will go out in July or way beforehand? Basically, the application period opened up earlier this week and so far it's been radio silence from this chambers (Professor called for me and have ties to the small market where it's located). Should I start giving up hope?

Nah it's a complete black box. Unexpected things happen in chambers all the time, and it's hard to hold judges to a certain hiring schedule. Try to sit tight and relax.

[lavarman84]

When a post on OSCAR says something like "interviews will be conducted in July," is it generally the case that interview invites will go out in July or way beforehand? Basically, the application period opened up earlier this week and so far it's been radio silence from this chambers (Professor called for me and have ties to the small market where it's located). Should I start giving up hope?

Relax. You're letting neuroticism take over. I know the chambers in my courthouse were trying to work through applications this week. They had not reached out to every person who would be interviewing yet.

[Anonymous User]

Just secured a DC clerkship for 2020. Interested in applying to more competitive districts and/or COA for 2021. Is it kosher to list my newly secured clerkship on my resume? I just want to emphasize that I will have had clerking experience prior to a 2021 clerkship.

[Barrred]

Just secured a DC clerkship for 2020. Interested in applying to more competitive districts and/or COA for 2021. Is it kosher to list my newly secured clerkship on my resume? I just want to emphasize that I will have had clerking experience prior to a 2021 clerkship.

Yes. Just put "Expected Start Date: August, 2020" or something similar in the place on your resume where you would normally put the time period that you worked at a job.

[Anonymous User]

Any notes on trying to read whether a clerkship interview went well? Where there's no screwups but you didn't become immediate buds with the judge?

[Barrred]

Any notes on trying to read whether a clerkship interview went well? Where there's no screwups but you didn't become immediate buds with the judge?

Its generally not worth reading the tea leaves, because every judges/interview process is so different. But duration can be a good indicator. Did the interview last as long as you expected it to? If it felt like it was cut short, that's a bad sign. In any case, there's nothing you can do about it now. Good luck!

[mjb447]

Any notes on trying to read whether a clerkship interview went well? Where there's no screwups but you didn't become immediate buds with the judge?

I get the impulse but, without knowing what the judge is like day-to-day, it’s pretty much impossible to do profitably. The judge might just be formal (or whatever) with everyone.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know how hard it is to do DOJ Honors following a clerkship? I just accepted two COA, one feeder one not, and I'm wondering if it's even worth thinking about.

[lavarman84]

Does anyone know how hard it is to do DOJ Honors following a clerkship? I just accepted two COA, one feeder one not, and I'm wondering if it's even worth thinking about.

If you're asking if you'll get an interview, yes.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know how hard it is to do DOJ Honors following a clerkship? I just accepted two COA, one feeder one not, and I'm wondering if it's even worth thinking about.

I mean, DOJ honors is competitive, but if you've got a feeder clerkship I'm pretty sure you fit the definition of a competitive candidate. So yes, apply - you're still not guaranteed anything but it's absolutely worth thinking about. I snuck in without anything like as competitive credentials as I presume you have. (Cliche alert:) You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

Is there a specific component that you're particularly interested in? Some are more competitive than others, but you probably have a better shot than many.

[Anonymous User]

Question about hotel bookings for sittings. I understand that we're supposed to book the government rate. If a hotel has no "government rate" availability for the nights I need, but there is a standard rate that is below the GSA per diem rate cap for the month in question, can I just book that standard rate? Or will I have problems getting reimbursed for a rate that isn't explicitly "government"?

Second question: assuming that any rate below the GSA cap is acceptable, are the rates examined on a individual night basis or as an average across the stay? So, for example, if the rate on two nights out of a three-night stay are below the cap, the third night is a few dollars above the cap, but the average rate across the three nights is below the cap, what would happen?

[Barrred]

Question about hotel bookings for sittings. I understand that we're supposed to book the government rate. If a hotel has no "government rate" availability for the nights I need, but there is a standard rate that is below the GSA per diem rate cap for the month in question, can I just book that standard rate? Or will I have problems getting reimbursed for a rate that isn't explicitly "government"?

Second question: assuming that any rate below the GSA cap is acceptable, are the rates examined on a individual night basis or as an average across the stay? So, for example, if the rate on two nights out of a three-night stay are below the cap, the third night is a few dollars above the cap, but the average rate across the three nights is below the cap, what would happen?

From my experience, they will reimburse you for anything under the GSA rate, regardless of whether the rate is called a government rate. But that said, the government rate is usually the lowest you can find, since its pre-negotiated. I dont know for sure (i've always just used the flat government rate), but I imagine that to your second question, each night has to be under the GSA rate. Note also that they will reimburse you for all the taxes/fees associated with the hotel on top of the GSA rate (in other words, the GSA rate isnt the max reimbursement inclusive of taxes/fees).

[rhododactylos]

Question about hotel bookings for sittings. I understand that we're supposed to book the government rate. If a hotel has no "government rate" availability for the nights I need, but there is a standard rate that is below the GSA per diem rate cap for the month in question, can I just book that standard rate? Or will I have problems getting reimbursed for a rate that isn't explicitly "government"?

Second question: assuming that any rate below the GSA cap is acceptable, are the rates examined on a individual night basis or as an average across the stay? So, for example, if the rate on two nights out of a three-night stay are below the cap, the third night is a few dollars above the cap, but the average rate across the three nights is below the cap, what would happen?

From my experience, they will reimburse you for anything under the GSA rate, regardless of whether the rate is called a government rate. But that said, the government rate is usually the lowest you can find, since its pre-negotiated. I dont know for sure (i've always just used the flat government rate), but I imagine that to your second question, each night has to be under the GSA rate. Note also that they will reimburse you for all the taxes/fees associated with the hotel on top of the GSA rate (in other words, the GSA rate isnt the max reimbursement inclusive of taxes/fees).

This rule also applies to airfare, but the opposite is true: the GSA rate is usually higher than the publicly available rate because the GSA rate is required to be refundable. If you have an airline credit card this can be a gold mine—book the highest class of non refundable fare available that’s less than the GSA refundable rate, get all the points, and you’re still saving the government money as long as you’re below the GSA rate.

[Anonymous User]

How is the job hunt following a COA clerkship? Do doors open, or is it about the same (or worse) than you would've gotten at 2L OCI?

[Anonymous User]

Rising 3L at H/S. During 1L, I had a medical condition that seriously affected my ability to study. Got about 80% Ps and 20% Hs. Thankfully, a proper diagnosis finally and abruptly ended that medical condition at the end of my 1L year. During my 2L year, got about 20% book prize/DS, 60% H, 20% P. My clerkship office advised against mentioning this in my clerkship applications, and I followed that advice.

I am starting to second guess that advice now (minimal bites on my current application, and most judges I applied to have interviewed others or filled their spots) -- the way that OSCAR prints grade sheets, the sudden upward trajectory is not at all clear. The reader gets hit with a wall of Ps on the first page. For future clerkship applications, considering either mentioning it very briefly in cover letter, or perhaps adding a second page to the cover letter file that has a header that says "Law School Performance Addendum" or something like that. I think it's kind of odd to not provide a simple explanation and don't tend to think it would hurt me (I mean, more than a clerk looking at the wall of Ps and moving on to the next person's app), given how stark the change was.

But I could be wrong, of course. Does anyone have thoughts? Thank you!

[Anonymous User]

Rising 3L at H/S. During 1L, I had a medical condition that seriously affected my ability to study. Got about 80% Ps and 20% Hs. Thankfully, a proper diagnosis finally and abruptly ended that medical condition at the end of my 1L year. During my 2L year, got about 20% book prize/DS, 60% H, 20% P. My clerkship office advised against mentioning this in my clerkship applications, and I followed that advice.

I am starting to second guess that advice now (minimal bites on my current application, and most judges I applied to have interviewed others or filled their spots) -- the way that OSCAR prints grade sheets, the sudden upward trajectory is not at all clear. The reader gets hit with a wall of Ps on the first page. For future clerkship applications, considering either mentioning it very briefly in cover letter, or perhaps adding a second page to the cover letter file that has a header that says "Law School Performance Addendum" or something like that. I think it's kind of odd to not provide a simple explanation and don't tend to think it would hurt me (I mean, more than a clerk looking at the wall of Ps and moving on to the next person's app), given how stark the change was.

But I could be wrong, of course. Does anyone have thoughts? Thank you!

I encountered the same issue during 1L where I pulled mostly c’s at a school ranked in the 60’s while I was getting diagnosed and no one knew what was causing my symptoms. Was told to drop out b/c my gpa was so abysmal. Disregarded that advice, stayed the course, and pulled mostly A’s with one or two Bs in there and got myself above the median for graduation purposes. When I tried to apply for clerkships (both state and federal) I was laughed at/dismissed by multiple professors and administrators bc of my 1L GPA so I had to apply w/o any institutional support (mail my own apps/secure my individual recommenders). For transparency purposes, I included an addendum on OSCAR and all of my job applications and will have to do so for the entirety of my career. I spoke about the health issue in broad terms and mentioned that I was happy to speak in greater detail if need be. In the end, I was able to secure a SSC clerkship and several years after that two federal clerkships. The whole experience (particularly the way I was treated by my law school) has left me with a case of imposter’s syndrome that becomes more apparent whenever I make a dumb mistake.

You are obviously at a much higher ranked school and your worst job outcomes will prob be opportunities that I’ll never have because of the caste system in this profession but my recommendation would be to disclose to the extent you are comfortable doing so. Yes, some chambers will weed you out but there are judges and staff out there that do read the entire application packet. And again, your law school is so highly ranked that that prestige will do much to break your fall. Applying broadly to the extent possible will also help.