Clerks Taking Questions Forum

[mjb447]

I have a two-year D. Ct. clerkship lined up. I am applying to one-year COA clerkships to follow it. How much wiggle room does a judge normally give for choosing the end-date?

I figure this will eventually be a bridge I have to cross (possibly), so I want to make sure that I'm not applying for COA clerkships that would be completely out of the realm of reasonableness in terms of the start-date.

Let's say that my start date is August 15th, 2017 (hypothetically).

Is there a reason you can't let your D.Ct. judge know that you're applying for a second clerkship and ask what an approximate appropriate end date would be? If the judge can give you even a rough idea now, you may be able to flag the issue for COA judges in your cover letter ("I will be clerking for Judge X until October 20XX."). (I think the amount of wiggle room varies, anywhere between a few weeks and a few months.)

[Anonymous User]

Separate question: When do clerks typically find out about start dates? I'm doing a D.Ct + CoA, and both judges told me that I'd start "in like August or September" 17/18. How early is too early to contact my first judge? Do you think the date would be set in stone at this time?

[lavarman84]

I have a two-year D. Ct. clerkship lined up. I am applying to one-year COA clerkships to follow it. How much wiggle room does a judge normally give for choosing the end-date?

I figure this will eventually be a bridge I have to cross (possibly), so I want to make sure that I'm not applying for COA clerkships that would be completely out of the realm of reasonableness in terms of the start-date.

Let's say that my start date is August 15th, 2017 (hypothetically).

Is there a reason you can't let your D.Ct. judge know that you're applying for a second clerkship and ask what an approximate appropriate end date would be? If the judge can give you even a rough idea now, you may be able to flag the issue for COA judges in your cover letter ("I will be clerking for Judge X until October 20XX."). (I think the amount of wiggle room varies, anywhere between a few weeks and a few months.)

No reason I can't. I plan to ask soon.

[mjb447]

Separate question: When do clerks typically find out about start dates? I'm doing a D.Ct + CoA, and both judges told me that I'd start "in like August or September" 17/18. How early is too early to contact my first judge? Do you think the date would be set in stone at this time?

If you don't already have one set, my guess is you'll figure it out a few months before you start. I don't think it would be problematic to reach out to chambers now if you want to to check in - your judge just may not know or have strong feelings yet, or his previous clerk may not yet have a set end date (most non-judicial employers don't hire that far out).

[A. Nony Mouse]

Yeah, in my experience the start date is usually determined by when the outgoing clerk wants to leave. You can check in now, but they might not know. I think I asked about it in April. If you have some concrete reason you need to know, like giving notice or renting or the like, ask whenever you need to know. It's not usually that much of an issue because clerkships follow similar timelines.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, in my experience the start date is usually determined by when the outgoing clerk wants to leave. You can check in now, but they might not know. I think I asked about it in April. If you have some concrete reason you need to know, like giving notice or renting or the like, ask whenever you need to know. It's not usually that much of an issue because clerkships follow similar timelines.

I guess my real question was "when do you think my judge would know when my 'predecessor' (for lack of a better term) is leaving"? Both your post and the one above were helpful; I'll probably ask in March or April. I don't really need to know

[TheJanitor6203]

Yeah, in my experience the start date is usually determined by when the outgoing clerk wants to leave. You can check in now, but they might not know. I think I asked about it in April. If you have some concrete reason you need to know, like giving notice or renting or the like, ask whenever you need to know. It's not usually that much of an issue because clerkships follow similar timelines.

I guess my real question was "when do you think my judge would know when my 'predecessor' (for lack of a better term) is leaving"? Both your post and the one above were helpful; I'll probably ask in March or April. I don't really need to know

I would ask now. Even if the judge doesn't know, they'll know to let you know as soon as they do know. My judge told me what day I'm starting the day I accepted the offer almost a year before my start date.

[Anonymous User]

What is the expected length of a writing sample? In pages, single spaced or double spaced?

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, in my experience the start date is usually determined by when the outgoing clerk wants to leave. You can check in now, but they might not know. I think I asked about it in April. If you have some concrete reason you need to know, like giving notice or renting or the like, ask whenever you need to know. It's not usually that much of an issue because clerkships follow similar timelines.

I guess my real question was "when do you think my judge would know when my 'predecessor' (for lack of a better term) is leaving"? Both your post and the one above were helpful; I'll probably ask in March or April. I don't really need to know

I would ask now. Even if the judge doesn't know, they'll know to let you know as soon as they do know. My judge told me what day I'm starting the day I accepted the offer almost a year before my start date.

My predecessor emailed me in March to see when would be a good start date, and we worked it out together. I plan on emailing my successor in March; I know what day I want to leave.

[mjb447]

What is the expected length of a writing sample? In pages, single spaced or double spaced?

Varies, although somewhere between 8 and 13 pages double spaced (please double space) is fairly normal. Shorter can be too short to do a robust legal analysis, particularly if you spend time talking about facts or general legal standards. Longer starts to be longer than necessary for the purpose, introduces extra risk of errors, can make it look like you have problems editing yourself etc. Again, though, it varies, and if a judge cares a lot hopefully s/he'll let you know on OSCAR.

[Anonymous User]

What is the expected length of a writing sample? In pages, single spaced or double spaced?

Varies, although somewhere between 8 and 13 pages double spaced (please double space) is fairly normal. Shorter can be too short to do a robust legal analysis, particularly if you spend time talking about facts or general legal standards. Longer starts to be longer than necessary for the purpose, introduces extra risk of errors, can make it look like you have problems editing yourself etc. Again, though, it varies, and if a judge cares a lot hopefully s/he'll let you know on OSCAR.

Oh okay perfect. I have one thats 6.5 pages single-spaced and was worried it might be too short. But double spaced it seems to work then!

[Anonymous User]

I hope someone can help with my dumb question. It's also probably moot since there are so few clerkships left for 2017.

I'm a 3L at a school in the 30s-40s who has a mid-/biglaw job lined up. My situation is objectively good: the firm is small for biglaw, great pay, low partner/associate ratio, medium COL area, not a sweatshop in most practice groups, generally nice people, etc. However, it's in a somewhat niche market/practice and I'm afraid that I'll be pigeonholed into working in that market doing the same stuff forever. The location is ok but it's not my ideal choice for a number of reasons (long way from family/friends is the primary issue). It seems like moving to a different market would be difficult (again, niche market experience) and I don't really want to settle in for a few years just to pick up and leave again.

For that reason, I'm applying last-minute to some federal clerkships. If I got one, I would consider reneging on my firm offer and trying firms in other cities/states. If I got lucky with a clerkship this semester, it might be too late to register for most other bars and I wouldn't want to take the bar in my firm's state because the whole point is to go elsewhere.

So, here's my question: if I don't take the bar in my firm's state because I got a clerkship in state X, then looked for post-clerkship jobs in states X, Y, and Z, when would I have time to take the bar in the state where I find a new job? What would the logistics look like? Do you just take a few months off between the close of the clerkship and taking the bar in February or something? I suppose my questions would be the same if I decided to clerk after a year or two at my firm.

[rpupkin]

So, here's my question: if I don't take the bar in my firm's state because I got a clerkship in state X, then looked for post-clerkship jobs in states X, Y, and Z, when would I have time to take the bar in the state where I find a new job? What would the logistics look like? Do you just take a few months off between the close of the clerkship and taking the bar in February or something? I suppose my questions would be the same if I decided to clerk after a year or two at my firm.

Most big law firms will support you studying for the bar while you work at the firm. They'll usually give you a month off (paid) so you can study.

Keep in mind that big law offices prefer to hire folks who have already passed the bar in the state in which the office is located. When you're looking for jobs in a particular state, it's definitely a plus if you've already passed the bar in that state. But it's not a deal breaker if you haven't.

[grand inquisitor]

i took a bar while clerking and it wasn't really a problem, so you can do that if your judge is ok with it. my worry is it doesn't sound like you will know which bar to take until you lock something down while clerking. if that's the case i might take a highly reciprocal bar (like ny maybe) during your post-law school summer and then deal with your state of practice when you know what it is.

[TheJanitor6203]

i took a bar while clerking and it wasn't really a problem, so you can do that if your judge is ok with it. my worry is it doesn't sound like you will know which bar to take until you lock something down while clerking. if that's the case i might take a highly reciprocal bar (like ny maybe) during your post-law school summer and then deal with your state of practice when you know what it is.

I've heard of people taking the bar while clerking. Also, if you're not sure where you're going to go, have you considered the UBE? It works in about 1/2 of New England including New York and Massachusetts, a bunch of flyover states, and the PNW. And who knows, maybe other states will adopt it between you taking it this summer and finding a job during your clerkship?

Edit: Be careful about taking a bar with high reciprocity just to get into a different state after your clerkship; a lot of states (most?) will only reciprocate after you've been practicing for 4 or 5 years.

[rpupkin]

i took a bar while clerking and it wasn't really a problem, so you can do that if your judge is ok with it. my worry is it doesn't sound like you will know which bar to take until you lock something down while clerking. if that's the case i might take a highly reciprocal bar (like ny maybe) during your post-law school summer and then deal with your state of practice when you know what it is.

I've heard of people taking the bar while clerking.

I have. It's not that uncommon, particularly when the judge has a light load and/or goes easy on his clerks.

[Anonymous User]

Anon above.

Thanks for the input. I don't think my firm's state is very reciprocal, but I'll have to check (I know it's not a UBE state). I may also give it a shot and if I like it there, then I could stay. Otherwise, if I don't get a clerkship now, I figure I may be more competitive after a year or so of practice anyway and can use that to try and switch locations. I just wasn't sure how to go about bar admittance in a situation like this.

[Anonymous User]

I'm sorry if this has been asked elsewhere. On average, how many interviews does it take most people before they get a clerkship? I've struck out at the 4 clerkship interviews I've had so far. Is it time for me to start panicking just yet? Is there anything I should be working on? I'm setting up some mock interviews, but I didn't really have a problem at OCI.

[mjb447]

I'm sorry if this has been asked elsewhere. On average, how many interviews does it take most people before they get a clerkship? I've struck out at the 4 clerkship interviews I've had so far. Is it time for me to start panicking just yet? Is there anything I should be working on? I'm setting up some mock interviews, but I didn't really have a problem at OCI.

Don't panic - lots of people go through that many or more before they land one. You never know how many other people the judge is interviewing or what they're like (except that they're probably pretty impressive). Mock interviews are a good idea, and make sure you're ready to answer the usual interview questions (e.g. why do you want to clerk). Make sure you know everything on your resume well and that you familiarize yourself with the judge's background and opinions. There's really no secret - it's just a lot more idiosyncratic than OCI.

[Anonymous User]

I'm sorry if this has been asked elsewhere. On average, how many interviews does it take most people before they get a clerkship? I've struck out at the 4 clerkship interviews I've had so far. Is it time for me to start panicking just yet? Is there anything I should be working on? I'm setting up some mock interviews, but I didn't really have a problem at OCI.

Don't panic - lots of people go through that many or more before they land one. You never know how many other people the judge is interviewing or what they're like (except that they're probably pretty impressive). Mock interviews are a good idea, and make sure you're ready to answer the usual interview questions (e.g. why do you want to clerk). Make sure you know everything on your resume well and that you familiarize yourself with the judge's background and opinions. There's really no secret - it's just a lot more idiosyncratic than OCI.

OP here. The advice is much appreciated. Thanks for calming me down.

[jrf12886]

I'm sorry if this has been asked elsewhere. On average, how many interviews does it take most people before they get a clerkship? I've struck out at the 4 clerkship interviews I've had so far. Is it time for me to start panicking just yet? Is there anything I should be working on? I'm setting up some mock interviews, but I didn't really have a problem at OCI.

Sometimes it can take many interviews. I know someone who got a clerkship on their 10th interview and another who got it on their 9th. Both got very good clerkships. Sometimes it comes down to whether you click with the Judge's personality, which is something you don't really have control over.

[TheJanitor6203]

Do the clerkship ethics rules prohibit clerks from publishing articles or do you just need your judges approval?

[Anonymous User]

Do the clerkship ethics rules prohibit clerks from publishing articles or do you just need your judges approval?

You just need your judge's approval, but they may very well not give it. My judge does not allow us to publish during our clerkship.

[jrf12886]

Do the clerkship ethics rules prohibit clerks from publishing articles or do you just need your judges approval?

The ethical rules prohibit you from publishing anything partisan. Your judge may also have rules against publishing more generally. You should discuss your plans with the judge.

[Moonraker]

SDNY/DE Bk. Clerk jumping in