Clerks Taking Questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hey guys. I have an outstanding offer for a magistrate clerkship (somewhat rural area if that matters) which I'm leaning towards taking (I have a few days to decide). My question is more about what my job prospects will look like from there. I'm at a T20 with average grades. Do most firms still ask for LS grades when you are applying from a clerkship? Do I have a decent shot at a decent firm, preferably Midwest, or a district court clerkship?

Also, is there anyone who thinks I shouldn't take the clerkship since it's a magistrate? I've gotten conflicting advice about how much less valuable that is than a district court clerkship.

Sorry. I know this is a lot. But I have a handful of days to make what feels like a huge decision and I never even really thought I had a legit shot at a clerkship. Any thoughts/advice is appreciated.

[MyNameIsFlynn!]

Hey guys. I have an outstanding offer for a magistrate clerkship (somewhat rural area if that matters) which I'm leaning towards taking (I have a few days to decide). My question is more about what my job prospects will look like from there. I'm at a T20 with average grades. Do most firms still ask for LS grades when you are applying from a clerkship? Do I have a decent shot at a decent firm, preferably Midwest, or a district court clerkship?

Also, is there anyone who thinks I shouldn't take the clerkship since it's a magistrate? I've gotten conflicting advice about how much less valuable that is than a district court clerkship.

Sorry. I know this is a lot. But I have a handful of days to make what feels like a huge decision and I never even really thought I had a legit shot at a clerkship. Any thoughts/advice is appreciated.

A couple thoughts:

First, what are your options if you decline the clerkship? If you have nothing else lined up and have little/no chance at BigLaw straight out, the mag. clerkship is not a bad deal. 60k + the chance to network your way into an AIII clerkship.

Second, the value of a mag clerkship varies by judge and district. But in general it's a good opportunity to learn the mechanics of litigating. Mag. judges in my district handle a lot of discovery and other pre-trial disputes, and as a district ct clerk I'm jealous because I mostly do motions to dismiss and motions for SJ.

[anon sequitur]

Mag clerk here.. depends what your other options are.

If you like the area and think you might like living there long term, it's probably a good move. MJ --> DJ clerk is not unusual. Going to a good regional firm should also be pretty reasonable goal. MJ clerkships are significantly less prestigious--it's a much easier job to get. But it seems to me that it's still considered to be good experience, just doesn't signal "elite" to potential employers. I've learned a lot, low stress, good pay/benefits considering I had no chance at biglaw anyway. I think the job varies a lot more than DJ clerkships, because different districts split up the work between DJ and MJ differently.

EDIT: auto-correct now changes "biglaw" to "bigly". JFC

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the feedback! I couldn't really give info about other potential options without possibly outing myself, but both replies were very helpful. I accepted the position.

[Anonymous User]

For Fed COA, do you refer to a Chief Judge as "Chief Judge X" or just "Judge X"?

As in: "Please let Chief/Judge X know that I am available at 9:30" etc

[ArtistOfManliness]

For Fed COA, do you refer to a Chief Judge as "Chief Judge X" or just "Judge X"?

As in: "Please let Chief/Judge X know that I am available at 9:30" etc

Chief Judge because, you know, they are a Chief Judge.

[mjb447]

Hard to go wrong using the official title. Some (more laid-back) judges might not really care if you use it, but they're not going to be offended if you do.

[jrf12886]

For Fed COA, do you refer to a Chief Judge as "Chief Judge X" or just "Judge X"?

As in: "Please let Chief/Judge X know that I am available at 9:30" etc

In formal writing, defintely use Chief Judge. When speaking, just "Judge."

[EastCoastBoat]

How often do circuit court judges travel? Are they out of town (shacked up in hotels) for 3/4 of the month?

[Emma.]

How often do circuit court judges travel? Are they out of town (shacked up in hotels) for 3/4 of the month?

Different in different circuits, but certainly not 3/4 of every month. On CA9, judges sit for 7 weeklong calendars each year. In the judge is in Pasadena or SF, they might only travel for half of those.

[Anonymous User]

Is there a general strategy for judges not on OSCAR? Is it kosher to call chambers and ask about the judge's hiring plans? Seems like there are too many non-OSCAR judges out there to just ignore the group altogether

[runinthefront]

Is there a general strategy for judges not on OSCAR? Is it kosher to call chambers and ask about the judge's hiring plans? Seems like there are too many non-OSCAR judges out there to just ignore the group altogether

It's totally fine to do this. And even if it wasn't, the clerks won't know who you are when you call. Most clerks aren't annoyed with you calling to inquire about the judge's hiring timeline.

[rpupkin]

Is there a general strategy for judges not on OSCAR? Is it kosher to call chambers and ask about the judge's hiring plans? Seems like there are too many non-OSCAR judges out there to just ignore the group altogether

It's totally fine to do this. And even if it wasn't, the clerks won't know who you are when you call. Most clerks aren't annoyed with you calling to inquire about the judge's hiring timeline.

In most chambers, you wouldn't even talk to a clerk; you would talk to the JA. And, yes, it's totally fine to call with questions about hiring plans. JAs get these questions all the time.

[Anonymous User]

Probably overthinking this, but decided to see if anyone had some advice nonetheless:

I'm struggling a bit with judges who require 2 (or more) writing samples. My go-to thus far has been a standard predictive memo i.e. here are the facts, here's the law, and here's how the law applies to those facts. The problem is that I don't have another writing sample in the same vein - the other memos I've written for school / work are researched-based and don't involve too much independent analysis i.e. here's a legal question I was asked to research and here's what the courts have said about it. I have a memo where I argue the majority applied the law incorrectly, but again, I'm largely using the dissent to do most of the heavy-lifting.

Essentially, is it problematic if my writing sample doesn't have an independent argument, but merely discusses the court's reasoning in particular cases?

[mjb447]

YMMV, but I think it's not ideal. Right now it sounds like your other samples really just demonstrate your ability to summarize what someone else said, which is far short of what most judges hope to see in a sample. Can you turn one of those memos into an analytical piece, i.e. "here's what various courts have done and the right approach is..." or make up a factual scenario to apply your case law to? Just spitballing.

[BVest]

Probably overthinking this, but decided to see if anyone had some advice nonetheless:

I'm struggling a bit with judges who require 2 (or more) writing samples. My go-to thus far has been a standard predictive memo i.e. here are the facts, here's the law, and here's how the law applies to those facts. The problem is that I don't have another writing sample in the same vein - the other memos I've written for school / work are researched-based and don't involve too much independent analysis i.e. here's a legal question I was asked to research and here's what the courts have said about it. I have a memo where I argue the majority applied the law incorrectly, but again, I'm largely using the dissent to do most of the heavy-lifting.

Essentially, is it problematic if my writing sample doesn't have an independent argument, but merely discusses the court's reasoning in particular cases?

Do you not have a brief of any sort? Even 1L?

(I mean, I guess you could be a 1L and thus not have a brief yet, but your statement about additional memos for LS as well as for work makes me think you're not a 1L).

[Anonymous User]

I've seen this addressed with various responses throughout this thread, but I'd like to see if folks have direct opinions on this. I'm currently a 2L #1-3 at a T25ish (some fluctuation) school, on LR with strong possibility for EIC, with good relationship with a former SCOTUS and DC COA clerk professor who is willing to go to bat for me, and strong grades in federal courts and other clerkship-related classes. Given that, how much do you all suspect my school's rank/prestige will prevent me from competing for selective COA clerkships or possibly (somewhat hypothetically) a SCOTUS clerkship? Is it really a done deal, or might someone in my position have a chance at those particularly competitive clerkships? I've been unable to get a straight answer in most cases, so thought I'd ask here. Much appreciated.

[mjb447]

I've seen this addressed with various responses throughout this thread, but I'd like to see if folks have direct opinions on this. I'm currently a 2L #1-3 at a T25ish (some fluctuation) school, on LR with strong possibility for EIC, with good relationship with a former SCOTUS and DC COA clerk professor who is willing to go to bat for me, and strong grades in federal courts and other clerkship-related classes. Given that, how much do you all suspect my school's rank/prestige will prevent me from competing for selective COA clerkships or possibly (somewhat hypothetically) a SCOTUS clerkship? Is it really a done deal, or might someone in my position have a chance at those particularly competitive clerkships? I've been unable to get a straight answer in most cases, so thought I'd ask here. Much appreciated.

What is a "selective" COA clerkship? All COA clerkships are selective to some degree, although DC/2/9 and feeders are even more so. I'm skeptical that you have a great shot to land the most competitive clerkships, but I think you've got good enough stats for it to be worth applying to some COA judges.

I suspect you're out of luck for SCOTUS except maybe Thomas - I don't have a lot of familiarity with SCOTUS hiring but, IIRC, the other justices hire pretty much exclusively from the T14 (more realistically, the T10 or T6). Although maybe President Trump will appoint someone who will hire differently.

[Lincoln]

I've seen this addressed with various responses throughout this thread, but I'd like to see if folks have direct opinions on this. I'm currently a 2L #1-3 at a T25ish (some fluctuation) school, on LR with strong possibility for EIC, with good relationship with a former SCOTUS and DC COA clerk professor who is willing to go to bat for me, and strong grades in federal courts and other clerkship-related classes. Given that, how much do you all suspect my school's rank/prestige will prevent me from competing for selective COA clerkships or possibly (somewhat hypothetically) a SCOTUS clerkship? Is it really a done deal, or might someone in my position have a chance at those particularly competitive clerkships? I've been unable to get a straight answer in most cases, so thought I'd ask here. Much appreciated.

I don't have an answer for you; I'm just a lowly district court clerk. But you may want to try posing this question in the SCOTUS clerk question thread that is stickied in this forum.

[clerk1251]

I've seen this addressed with various responses throughout this thread, but I'd like to see if folks have direct opinions on this. I'm currently a 2L #1-3 at a T25ish (some fluctuation) school, on LR with strong possibility for EIC, with good relationship with a former SCOTUS and DC COA clerk professor who is willing to go to bat for me, and strong grades in federal courts and other clerkship-related classes. Given that, how much do you all suspect my school's rank/prestige will prevent me from competing for selective COA clerkships or possibly (somewhat hypothetically) a SCOTUS clerkship? Is it really a done deal, or might someone in my position have a chance at those particularly competitive clerkships? I've been unable to get a straight answer in most cases, so thought I'd ask here. Much appreciated.

Apply broadly to a lot of COA clerkships. It will take more than one professor to get you there, so just keep in mind you usually need three letters of recommendation. Having at least one of them call on your behalf will also help, as it sounds like your professor will do. If you can't get a clerkship with a feeder judge due to your school rankings, or whatever the reason, consider doing two COA clerkships - first go whereever will take you. Once you crush it and then get a judge to back you and recommend you, you can apply to a feeder judge and try your luck that way. I wouldn't say SCOTUS is out of the question, it just might take awhile. Also, in order to get to SCOTUS, you will need the full support of your entire school behind you. That usually involves the Dean and others, as opposed to just a notable professor.

[TatteredDignity]

I was in your position as a 2L. As much as it sucks, your chances at SCOTUS are essentially nil. The exception would be if your professor who clerked for SCOTUS can pick up the phone and call the right people/justices. The above poster is right--getting SCOTUS is an institutional effort, and almost no schools outside the T14 have the institutional ability to do it. You'll occasionally see UCLA/Vandy place a SCOTUS clerk, but even that's becoming rare (setting aside Thomas's random TT hires). Without the right connections, which is largely a function of which school you're at, it'll never happen. Put differently--you'll never get SCOTUS solely by virtue of being #1 and EIC at a T25. That's necessary, but nowhere close to sufficient.

Finally, take it from me: even a COA clerkship isn't guaranteed in your position. You've got a good shot, but no one will hand it to you. I didn't get one until after I graduated. I guess my overall advice is, recalibrate your perception of the strength of your credentials.

[BlackAndOrange84]

I've seen this addressed with various responses throughout this thread, but I'd like to see if folks have direct opinions on this. I'm currently a 2L #1-3 at a T25ish (some fluctuation) school, on LR with strong possibility for EIC, with good relationship with a former SCOTUS and DC COA clerk professor who is willing to go to bat for me, and strong grades in federal courts and other clerkship-related classes. Given that, how much do you all suspect my school's rank/prestige will prevent me from competing for selective COA clerkships or possibly (somewhat hypothetically) a SCOTUS clerkship? Is it really a done deal, or might someone in my position have a chance at those particularly competitive clerkships? I've been unable to get a straight answer in most cases, so thought I'd ask here. Much appreciated.

PM me.

[Anonymous User]

People keep talking about Justice Thomas' "random" hires. They aren't random. Those are people that are SCOTUS-level smart and also line up ideologically with Justice Thomas. So it's not like every top-of-their-class-at-a-lower-ranked-school has an equal shot. They really only have a shot if they have a legal philosophy that lines up well with Justice Thomas' and have a way to show that.

[Anonymous User]

.

[lawlorbust]

People keep talking about Justice Thomas' "random" hires. They aren't random. Those are people that are SCOTUS-level smart and also line up ideologically with Justice Thomas. So it's not like every top-of-their-class-at-a-lower-ranked-school has an equal shot. They really only have a shot if they have a legal philosophy that lines up well with Justice Thomas' and have a way to show that.

I don't think they're random at all -- I think they're a purposeful fuck-you from JT to Harvard, Yale and Stanford.