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Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:15 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:13 pm

any Colloton news?

Colloton's among the slowest off-plan judges, he didn't fill for 2021 until this spring, but he hires on a rolling basis.

Also, if you're seriously interested in Colloton, you should ask around about what it's like working for him. Some people have quite bad experiences.

Seconded in the hearing about bad experiences point.

Thirding. Not good at all. Not like Kozinski, but a genuinely unpleasant person.

I'm sure there's variation, but what are the employment opportunities like for 8th COA clerks? I would assume decent in the midwest, but likely not a lock for biglaw/elite lit boutiques in major markets. I would assume applicants get somewhat of a boost?

Would love thoughts and actual experiences.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:15 pm

I'm sure there's variation, but what are the employment opportunities like for 8th COA clerks? I would assume decent in the midwest, but likely not a lock for biglaw/elite lit boutiques in major markets. I would assume applicants get somewhat of a boost?

Would love thoughts and actual experiences.

I think that's not quite right. Most COA clerks have biglaw credentials, and will have done a 2L SA with a firm that they plan to return to at the end of their clerkship.

There's not much variation between circuits in employment outcomes, especially beyond feeders, DC Cir, etc. Most people will go back to their 2L firm and some will switch markets/firms just like every other COA. Tons end up in major-market biglaw, which isn't very selective compared to COA clerkships. I doubt you will find many in elite boutiques but I know of a couple (and I don't know a ton of CA8 clerks) and elite boutiques aren't a typical outcome from any circuit, they're elite for a reason.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:29 am

Any opinions on the district judges in Iowa? Have heard Reade is notably conservative and Pratt is notably liberal but nothing on the others Even without direct knowledge any opinions by CA8 clerks reviewing orders even would be helpful.

I've heard that clerking with Judge C.J. Williams (N.D. Iowa) is a great experience. He's apparently a great mentor, fair-minded, and experienced given his prior experience as a magistrate judge.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:29 am

Any opinions on the district judges in Iowa? Have heard Reade is notably conservative and Pratt is notably liberal but nothing on the others Even without direct knowledge any opinions by CA8 clerks reviewing orders even would be helpful.

I've heard that clerking with Judge C.J. Williams (N.D. Iowa) is a great experience. He's apparently a great mentor, fair-minded, and experienced given his prior experience as a magistrate judge.

Pratt's supposed to be really wonderful to clerk for. Jarvey is likely retiring soon but is reportedly a very nice man who offers an incredibly laid back clerkship experience. I haven't spoken to any Ebinger or Rose clerks but they're both well-respected and seem like decent bosses from the grapevine. Ebinger is ambitious and I've heard her personality is pretty serious.

Also, Melloy is also supposed to be nice and very relaxed, though possibly a bit too much so; he's not an intensive editor.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:24 pm

There's not much variation between circuits in employment outcomes, especially beyond feeders, DC Cir, etc. Most people will go back to their 2L firm and some will switch markets/firms just like every other COA. Tons end up in major-market biglaw, which isn't very selective compared to COA clerkships. I doubt you will find many in elite boutiques but I know of a couple (and I don't know a ton of CA8 clerks) and elite boutiques aren't a typical outcome from any circuit, they're elite for a reason.

Thanks for this.
Are there *any* elite boutiques in the 8th circuit? I'm thinking on the level of Bartlit Beck, Kellogg, etc.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:03 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:24 pm

There's not much variation between circuits in employment outcomes, especially beyond feeders, DC Cir, etc. Most people will go back to their 2L firm and some will switch markets/firms just like every other COA. Tons end up in major-market biglaw, which isn't very selective compared to COA clerkships. I doubt you will find many in elite boutiques but I know of a couple (and I don't know a ton of CA8 clerks) and elite boutiques aren't a typical outcome from any circuit, they're elite for a reason.

Thanks for this.
Are there *any* elite boutiques in the 8th circuit? I'm thinking on the level of Bartlit Beck, Kellogg, etc.

No. No firm in the Eighth is as selective as Bartlit Beck or Kellogg Hansen. A couple of firms pay way above the Cravath scale after you adjust for cost of living like they do. Jones Day's small Minneapolis office starts at $170k, or $357k in Manhattan, and Belin McCormick in Des Moines starts at $150k, or $380k in Manhattan. They're both also very, very selective for the circuit and heavy on SSC/federal clerks and T14s, though not litigation boutiques (though they are small enough that the atmosphere may be similar). There are some true litigation boutiques like German May in Kansas City, Greene Espel and Robins Kaplan in Minneapolis, and Weinhardt in Des Moines, but none are really "elite" in the way Bartlit Beck is and (as far as I know) they pay local market comp.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:03 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:24 pm

There's not much variation between circuits in employment outcomes, especially beyond feeders, DC Cir, etc. Most people will go back to their 2L firm and some will switch markets/firms just like every other COA. Tons end up in major-market biglaw, which isn't very selective compared to COA clerkships. I doubt you will find many in elite boutiques but I know of a couple (and I don't know a ton of CA8 clerks) and elite boutiques aren't a typical outcome from any circuit, they're elite for a reason.

Thanks for this.
Are there *any* elite boutiques in the 8th circuit? I'm thinking on the level of Bartlit Beck, Kellogg, etc.

No. No firm in the Eighth is as selective as Bartlit Beck or Kellogg Hansen. A couple of firms pay way above the Cravath scale after you adjust for cost of living like they do. Jones Day's small Minneapolis office starts at $170k, or $357k in Manhattan, and Belin McCormick in Des Moines starts at $150k, or $380k in Manhattan. They're both also very, very selective for the circuit and heavy on SSC/federal clerks and T14s, though not litigation boutiques (though they are small enough that the atmosphere may be similar). There are some true litigation boutiques like German May in Kansas City, Greene Espel and Robins Kaplan in Minneapolis, and Weinhardt in Des Moines, but none are really "elite" in the way Bartlit Beck is and (as far as I know) they pay local market comp.

Robins Kaplan just announced $100k clerkship bonuses, but otherwise follows local market comp.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:03 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:24 pm

There's not much variation between circuits in employment outcomes, especially beyond feeders, DC Cir, etc. Most people will go back to their 2L firm and some will switch markets/firms just like every other COA. Tons end up in major-market biglaw, which isn't very selective compared to COA clerkships. I doubt you will find many in elite boutiques but I know of a couple (and I don't know a ton of CA8 clerks) and elite boutiques aren't a typical outcome from any circuit, they're elite for a reason.

Thanks for this.
Are there *any* elite boutiques in the 8th circuit? I'm thinking on the level of Bartlit Beck, Kellogg, etc.

No. No firm in the Eighth is as selective as Bartlit Beck or Kellogg Hansen. A couple of firms pay way above the Cravath scale after you adjust for cost of living like they do. Jones Day's small Minneapolis office starts at $170k, or $357k in Manhattan, and Belin McCormick in Des Moines starts at $150k, or $380k in Manhattan. They're both also very, very selective for the circuit and heavy on SSC/federal clerks and T14s, though not litigation boutiques (though they are small enough that the atmosphere may be similar). There are some true litigation boutiques like German May in Kansas City, Greene Espel and Robins Kaplan in Minneapolis, and Weinhardt in Des Moines, but none are really "elite" in the way Bartlit Beck is and (as far as I know) they pay local market comp.

Robins Kaplan just announced $100k clerkship bonuses, but otherwise follows local market comp.

That's by far the highest clerkship bonus that I've heard of in the Eighth so it's very notable (presumably minus JD's one SCOTUS clerk). In Minneapolis, Faegre and Jones Day say they give clerkship bonuses (I suspect the former's are quite small). NALP has Norton Rose and Shook Hardy as the only firms giving clerkship bonuses in Missouri. German May doesn't give a clerkship bonus as far as I can tell but since it's plaintiff-side and it gives bonuses based on contingencies its annual bonuses might be way above market, I have no idea. I'd be pretty shocked if any firms give clerkship bonuses in the other states in the circuit except for Faegre's Des Moines office. Belin doesn't, though it does have a 3.5 year partnership track for clerks with nearly guaranteed partnership (incidentally a similarity to Bartlit Beck).

For anyone in the future applying and wondering "how bleak is this place," here's my personal ranking of the cities with Eighth Circuit judges for a young professional as someone who's been to almost all of them.

• 1. Minneapolis (very nice but freezing)
  2. Kansas City, St. Louis (have their ups and downs but pretty good and genuinely urban)
  3. Des Moines, Omaha (the Des Moines area is smaller but richer and more vibrant than the Omaha area)
  4. Cedar Rapids (somewhere between midsize and small city, but not bad and benefits from commutable proximity to Iowa City)
  5. Little Rock (a midsize city, but one with significant quality of life problems compared to cities higher up)
  6. Fargo, Sioux Falls (small but growing, boring and few amenities, not terrible but can’t imagine a coastal type liking them)
  7. El Dorado (never been, but can’t imagine it’s not the worst)

Can anyone comment on Grasz. Fairly recent appointee and considering applying. Just interested in work/life information relative to other positions and whether he is a nice/rude man. Someone had said “very rude” and that is what I’m most curious about. Hahahaha!

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:35 pm

Can anyone comment on Grasz. Fairly recent appointee and considering applying. Just interested in work/life information relative to other positions and whether he is a nice/rude man. Someone had said “very rude” and that is what I’m most curious about. Hahahaha!

Grasz had a h*ll of an ABA report and judiciary questionnaire—he’s worked for every right-wing cause and politician in Nebraska, including like anti-gay and pro-death penalty stuff, was a lobbyist when he was appointed, the ABA interviewees said he was a hack and an ahole, etc. I don’t know what it’s like working for him but I’d consider it much riskier than Kobes, who got NQ for fairly silly, not personality/temperament-based reasons discussed above.

On 8, he’s definitely not one of the better-regarded ones (Colloton, Gruender, Kelly, Loken, Stras).

Ralph Erickson wrote an, uh, interesting concurrence in an abortion case:

https://ecf.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/21/01/192690P.pdf

He’s generally well-regarded but a non-legal, speculative fiction-esque opinion is pretty off the rails.

He’s joined by Shepherd, who also wrote his own, though less hokey, anti-Roe concurrence.

Note that Grasz and Shepherd also wrote the most widely denounced federal appellate pre-election case. It ruled that a procedurally unusual collateral attack on a consent order to extend an absentee ballot deadline entered by a state court was entitled to a preliminary injunction even though it was on a novel theory of constitutional law, only a few days before the election, and had serious standing problems.

https://ecf.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/20/10/203139P.pdf

It’ll be interesting to see if the Eighth Circuit gets more radical, a la parts of the Fifth and Eleventh, with a 6-3 SCOTUS.

Note that Colloton, Gruender, and Stras all fed to SCOTUS this term. All three were double-appellate clerks also clerking for a better-known judge (Silberman, Barrett, and Pryor, respectively), but the growth of the conservative bloc on the court might make these judges more attractive. I think that's the third feed for Colloton, but the first in quite a while, and the others were maybe before he got his current rep as an unusually poor boss. As far as I know that's the first feed for Gruender and Stras, though Stras hasn't been on the bench for long and will almost certainly end up being the most feedery judge on the Eighth.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:27 pm

As far as I know that's the first feed for Gruender and Stras, though Stras hasn't been on the bench for long and will almost certainly end up being the most feedery judge on the Eighth.

I have heard that clerking for Stras is deeply unpleasant in pretty much all respects. Like Colloton level unpleasant. He is way different during interviews than in normal chambers, apparently. Just a note for people wanting feedery judges but avoiding Colloton for QOL.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:27 pm

As far as I know that's the first feed for Gruender and Stras, though Stras hasn't been on the bench for long and will almost certainly end up being the most feedery judge on the Eighth.

I have heard that clerking for Stras is deeply unpleasant in pretty much all respects. Like Colloton level unpleasant. He is way different during interviews than in normal chambers, apparently. Just a note for people wanting feedery judges but avoiding Colloton for QOL.

Huh, he comes across as the nicest judge alive, so that would be curious. Fwiw the Stras clerks I know speak highly of him, but then again there’s stigma against badmouthing your judge. I’ve heard that it’s a very hard-working chambers though.

Colloton, on the other hand, is just as unpleasant in public as he reportedly is in private, whatever you can say about him he’s not two-faced.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:38 pm

Huh, he comes across as the nicest judge alive, so that would be curious. Fwiw the Stras clerks I know speak highly of him, but then again there’s stigma against badmouthing your judge. I’ve heard that it’s a very hard-working chambers though.

Colloton, on the other hand, is just as unpleasant in public as he reportedly is in private, whatever you can say about him he’s not two-faced.

Sorry; I was unclear. I was talking about the workload and environment, not his disposition. In other words, the sense of what the clerkship entails presented during interviews is a rather rosy picture of the reality. I have no knowledge of him as a person.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:38 pm

Huh, he comes across as the nicest judge alive, so that would be curious. Fwiw the Stras clerks I know speak highly of him, but then again there’s stigma against badmouthing your judge. I’ve heard that it’s a very hard-working chambers though.

Colloton, on the other hand, is just as unpleasant in public as he reportedly is in private, whatever you can say about him he’s not two-faced.

Sorry; I was unclear. I was talking about the workload and environment, not his disposition. In other words, the sense of what the clerkship entails presented during interviews is a rather rosy picture of the reality. I have no knowledge of him as a person.

What’s the “environment” concern if you can divulge it? That would be new and useful info. “Pretty much all respects” sounds pretty different from just long hours.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:11 pm

Ralph Erickson wrote an, uh, interesting concurrence in an abortion case:

https://ecf.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/21/01/192690P.pdf

He’s generally well-regarded but a non-legal, speculative fiction-esque opinion is pretty off the rails.

He’s joined by Shepherd, who also wrote his own, though less hokey, anti-Roe concurrence.

Note that Grasz and Shepherd also wrote the most widely denounced federal appellate pre-election case. It ruled that a procedurally unusual collateral attack on a consent order to extend an absentee ballot deadline entered by a state court was entitled to a preliminary injunction even though it was on a novel theory of constitutional law, only a few days before the election, and had serious standing problems.

https://ecf.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/20/10/203139P.pdf

It’ll be interesting to see if the Eighth Circuit gets more radical, a la parts of the Fifth and Eleventh, with a 6-3 SCOTUS.

Anymore info on Erickson? I’ve heard he is great and am considering applying. Not interested in ideology as much as whether he is just pleasant to work for and whether the workload is extreme/average/below average.

Any knowledge/opinions on Kelly? All I know is from the Scalia replacement buzz back in 2016

This is a geographically big circuit. How frequent is travel and to where (assuming non-COVID times)?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:02 pm

This is a geographically big circuit. How frequent is travel and to where (assuming non-COVID times)?

Most sittings are in St. Louis and Minneapolis, some are in KC and Omaha. St. Louis is the main courthouse for the circuit.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:25 pm

Any knowledge/opinions on Kelly? All I know is from the Scalia replacement buzz back in 2016

Kelly's the only liberal judge on the circuit. She's well-respected and supposed to be a good boss. She virtually requires work experience or a prior clerkship, her clerks usually clerked previously for a district court judge. For the most part she doesn't seem too picky on Iowa ties, she hires some Iowans but plenty who aren't.

Cedar Rapids is a reasonably nice place to live for a year and Cedar Rapids and Iowa City, the booming college town where the University of Iowa is, are gradually merging into one metro area.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:11 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:11 pm

Ralph Erickson wrote an, uh, interesting concurrence in an abortion case:

https://ecf.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/21/01/192690P.pdf

He’s generally well-regarded but a non-legal, speculative fiction-esque opinion is pretty off the rails.

He’s joined by Shepherd, who also wrote his own, though less hokey, anti-Roe concurrence.

Note that Grasz and Shepherd also wrote the most widely denounced federal appellate pre-election case. It ruled that a procedurally unusual collateral attack on a consent order to extend an absentee ballot deadline entered by a state court was entitled to a preliminary injunction even though it was on a novel theory of constitutional law, only a few days before the election, and had serious standing problems.

https://ecf.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/20/10/203139P.pdf

It’ll be interesting to see if the Eighth Circuit gets more radical, a la parts of the Fifth and Eleventh, with a 6-3 SCOTUS.

Anymore info on Erickson? I’ve heard he is great and am considering applying. Not interested in ideology as much as whether he is just pleasant to work for and whether the workload is extreme/average/below average.

Also interested in this given recent OSCAR posting.