Can I Get a Job in a DA/Solicitor's Office Without Experience? Forum

[BeastfromtheEast]

I'm a 2L in a relatively small state looking to work as a state prosecutor after graduation. Although I applied to work for multiple DA's offices in my state, I didn't get any job offers for the summer. Do I stand a chance of getting hired after 3L if I do not have any experience working in a solicitor's / DA's office?

Academics & other Experience: I'm just outside of the top 10% of my class and my law school is the only non-T4 one in my state. I have gotten an A's in Criminal Law, Criminal Procedure, Criminal Adjudication, and Evidence if that makes any difference. I'm on the mock trial team and have already had some success as a 2L. I hope to have a leadership position in that organization next year. I'm not on the Law Review or involved with any other organizations. Also, I have been working for the last year as an RA for a relatively well known Professor who focuses on criminal procedure issues.

What are my chances of employment after 3L? I'm looking at either getting an externship at the PD's office or a summer position at an insurance defense firm. Would those jobs help / hurt my chances?

[cavalier1138]

Depends on hiring patterns in your state, but DAs generally prefer to hire someone who worked a bit for them. See if you can score a 3L internship during the school year if you're really interested in that.

In terms of your post-grad ideas, if you can't snag an ADA offer, PD would be much better than insurance defense. But PDs tend to be very suspicious of anyone who smells like a prosecutor, so I wouldn't bet on that.

[crownjd]

Depends on hiring patterns in your state, but DAs generally prefer to hire someone who worked a bit for them. See if you can score a 3L internship during the school year if you're really interested in that.

In terms of your post-grad ideas, if you can't snag an ADA offer, PD would be much better than insurance defense. But PDs tend to be very suspicious of anyone who smells like a prosecutor, so I wouldn't bet on that.

Pfft. Don't direct a Prosecutor to the PDs office if they want to be an AG/Solicitor/Prosecutor! I take personal offense to that. /s

Anyway, I think OP will be able to get a job as a prosecutor, even if it's in a lesser-known, less competitive jurisdiction. I second getting some experience before and during your 3L year, even if it's just one day a week.

[BeastfromtheEast]

Depends on hiring patterns in your state, but DAs generally prefer to hire someone who worked a bit for them. See if you can score a 3L internship during the school year if you're really interested in that.

In terms of your post-grad ideas, if you can't snag an ADA offer, PD would be much better than insurance defense. But PDs tend to be very suspicious of anyone who smells like a prosecutor, so I wouldn't bet on that.

Pfft. Don't direct a Prosecutor to the PDs office if they want to be an AG/Solicitor/Prosecutor! I take personal offense to that. /s

Anyway, I think OP will be able to get a job as a prosecutor, even if it's in a lesser-known, less competitive jurisdiction. I second getting some experience before and during your 3L year, even if it's just one day a week.

Would it look bad if I get experience in the public defenders office?

I'm stressing out about what I should do this summer. I am interviewing with an insurance defense firm in a few days that is a small outfit from my hometown that I am confident I can have a summer position with. However, I also could very easily get an 7 week externship with the capitol public defenders because they are desperate for people.

What do y'all think that I should do? I think that if I get an offer from the firm I'll take it just for the litigation experience, unless that will hurt my chances getting employed in the private sector. If I don't get that job, I have the ability to continue working as an RA and I can do an unofficial clerkship with a superior court judge that is a family friend. Do you think that shadowing the judge and getting a good letter of rec will be a better opportunity for me in the long run?

Thanks so much for the help!

[nixy]

In terms of this summer, the PD’s office would be most helpful. Getting experience with criminal law will be pertinent, and prosecutors don’t have an issue with people who have defense experience (they often see it as helpful. The same is NOT generally true the other way around). And I agree that doing an internship with a DA’s office during 3L would help.

[andythefir]

I don’t know the dynamics in your state, but generally DA jobs are easier to get the farther away from a big(ish) town or law school they are. So big town with a law school=competitive, which likely drives down salary; isolated small town without law school=not competitive. I personally got a job as a DA in a super isolated town with PD experience after striking out in towns within 90 minutes of either my hometown or law school.

[Bingo_Bongo]

Academics & other Experience: I'm just outside of the top 10% of my class and my law school is the only non-T4 one in my state. I have gotten an A's in Criminal Law, Criminal Procedure, Criminal Adjudication, and Evidence if that makes any difference. I'm on the mock trial team and have already had some success as a 2L. I hope to have a leadership position in that organization next year. I'm not on the Law Review or involved with any other organizations. Also, I have been working for the last year as an RA for a relatively well known Professor who focuses on criminal procedure issues.

The thing is, and I think you understand this but I'm just reiterating it, your work experience and ability to speak well in front of a jury is way more important than being near the top 10% and your As.

Definitely try to get whatever internships and courtroom experience you can. It's those two things that will get you hired, even in major "competitive" jurisdictions. When it comes to these jobs the kid who's middle of his class at a T3 who has clerked at the DA's Office for four semesters and has done 30 prelims and second chaired two jury trials always gets hired over the T13 valedictorian who was EIC of the school's law journal but has no criminal law experience. It's how it works.

And DAs are way more open minded when it comes to hiring people with criminal defense experience. Defense attorneys are the ones who often hate DAs with a passion and will hold DA internships against you (probably because we actually win like 95% of our trials and they don't).

Also, get comfortable reading a fact pattern and delivering an opening/closing on the fly. Most DA Offices require you do this as part of the hiring process, and its usually a huge part of the decision.

I'm not sure what market you will be looking for work in, but if it's similar to Southern California, and you don't have any criminal law work experience and courtroom experience going into post-bar hiring, your shot isn't that good at landing a post-bar gig. The good thing is, though, you're never out of the game with DA hiring. If you don't get anything for post-bar, just keep trying after you pass the bar. I didn't have any criminal law or court experience when I was in law school, and I did civil stuff after I passed the bar. I slowly migrated over to being a prosecutor. It's not like big law where if you strike out at 2L OCI you're pretty much done.

[BeastfromtheEast]

Thanks for all of your feedback! This thread has definitely made me a lot less stressed about finding a job after employment. As of now, I have an offer to work at a very litigation focused insurance defense firm this summer. I can also work at the Capitol Public Defender's office, but apparently I would just be doing profiles on potential jurors and wouldn't have much court time or other relevant experience. Im thinking that I will take the law firm opportunity, and thoughts on that decision?

[throwthrowaway]

Academics & other Experience: I'm just outside of the top 10% of my class and my law school is the only non-T4 one in my state. I have gotten an A's in Criminal Law, Criminal Procedure, Criminal Adjudication, and Evidence if that makes any difference. I'm on the mock trial team and have already had some success as a 2L. I hope to have a leadership position in that organization next year. I'm not on the Law Review or involved with any other organizations. Also, I have been working for the last year as an RA for a relatively well known Professor who focuses on criminal procedure issues.

The thing is, and I think you understand this but I'm just reiterating it, your work experience and ability to speak well in front of a jury is way more important than being near the top 10% and your As.

Definitely try to get whatever internships and courtroom experience you can. It's those two things that will get you hired, even in major "competitive" jurisdictions. When it comes to these jobs the kid who's middle of his class at a T3 who has clerked at the DA's Office for four semesters and has done 30 prelims and second chaired two jury trials always gets hired over the T13 valedictorian who was EIC of the school's law journal but has no criminal law experience. It's how it works.

And DAs are way more open minded when it comes to hiring people with criminal defense experience. Defense attorneys are the ones who often hate DAs with a passion and will hold DA internships against you (probably because we actually win like 95% of our trials and they don't).

Also, get comfortable reading a fact pattern and delivering an opening/closing on the fly. Most DA Offices require you do this as part of the hiring process, and its usually a huge part of the decision.

I'm not sure what market you will be looking for work in, but if it's similar to Southern California, and you don't have any criminal law work experience and courtroom experience going into post-bar hiring, your shot isn't that good at landing a post-bar gig. The good thing is, though, you're never out of the game with DA hiring. If you don't get anything for post-bar, just keep trying after you pass the bar. I didn't have any criminal law or court experience when I was in law school, and I did civil stuff after I passed the bar. I slowly migrated over to being a prosecutor. It's not like big law where if you strike out at 2L OCI you're pretty much done.

Going into firm after grad, but interested in DA work in Southern California within 5 years. I'm at a T-14 and have done multiple DA internships and thoroughly enjoy the work, but still get extremely nervous with public speaking (no moot court, only minor appearances on the record in front of judges during internships). Any advice on overcoming this fear + how you practiced for the hiring process?

[Bingo_Bongo]

Thanks for all of your feedback! This thread has definitely made me a lot less stressed about finding a job after employment. As of now, I have an offer to work at a very litigation focused insurance defense firm this summer. I can also work at the Capitol Public Defender's office, but apparently I would just be doing profiles on potential jurors and wouldn't have much court time or other relevant experience. Im thinking that I will take the law firm opportunity, and thoughts on that decision?

I think the law firm opportunity would probably be the better bet at this point. Again, I don't know what your jurisdiction is like, but if it's anything like SoCal (which admittedly is probably one of the most competitive) one criminal law internship where you didn't get any court experience probably won't get you hired for a post-bar gig. Occasionally an applicant will come in with little to no experience but completely blow the hiring panel away with a GREAT closing where you're hanging onto the edge of your seat, answer hypos really well and demonstrate a thorough understanding of California criminal law and the evidence code, and get hired. But those are rare. Most people getting hired for post-bar gigs have several semesters of DA/PD work under their belt and have made many court appearances.

If you're going the civil route at first, try to get into court whenever you can (which is easier said that done, I know). Also see if your firm will let you do TAP programs (where you volunteer at the DAs Office in exchange for trial experience). Those things will maximize your ability to move to a DA's Office eventually. Even if you don't get hired the first time you apply to lateral over to the DA's Office, just keep applying whenever you see an opening and somebody will likely eventually notice, respect your persistence, and give you a shot.

Going into firm after grad, but interested in DA work in Southern California within 5 years. I'm at a T-14 and have done multiple DA internships and thoroughly enjoy the work, but still get extremely nervous with public speaking (no moot court, only minor appearances on the record in front of judges during internships). Any advice on overcoming this fear + how you practiced for the hiring process?

That's normal. I used to get nervous speaking in front of groups, too. The answer is pretty simple, but easier said than done: just do it. The more experience you have, the less nervous you will be. When I first started, I was so timid in front of judges, so afraid of making a mistake, or saying the wrong thing. But confidence comes with experience, and you eventually just start talking to them like they're a friend. It becomes pretty casual.

You can find some fact patterns, prepare an opening (15 minutes to prep; 10 to deliver) or /closings (about 45 minutes to prep; 15 to deliver), and have friends or family sit down and listen to you. The more opening/closings you create and deliver, the more confident you'll be, even if they're not delivered in a formal setting. You can think of it like a test. If you go into a test having prepared, studied, and know the material you won't be nearly as nervous as if you're seeing the material for the first time. The same concept applies here. If it's the first time you've ever created a closing on the fly, it will be a way more stressful experience.

Preparation in anything goes a long way. Preparation will make you way more confident in anything you do. Then once you get the experience, you won't even need the preparation to be confident.

Also, consider court watching if you can get some time to do that.

[pamplemousse9]

Academics & other Experience: I'm just outside of the top 10% of my class and my law school is the only non-T4 one in my state. I have gotten an A's in Criminal Law, Criminal Procedure, Criminal Adjudication, and Evidence if that makes any difference. I'm on the mock trial team and have already had some success as a 2L. I hope to have a leadership position in that organization next year. I'm not on the Law Review or involved with any other organizations. Also, I have been working for the last year as an RA for a relatively well known Professor who focuses on criminal procedure issues.

The thing is, and I think you understand this but I'm just reiterating it, your work experience and ability to speak well in front of a jury is way more important than being near the top 10% and your As.

Definitely try to get whatever internships and courtroom experience you can. It's those two things that will get you hired, even in major "competitive" jurisdictions. When it comes to these jobs the kid who's middle of his class at a T3 who has clerked at the DA's Office for four semesters and has done 30 prelims and second chaired two jury trials always gets hired over the T13 valedictorian who was EIC of the school's law journal but has no criminal law experience. It's how it works.

And DAs are way more open minded when it comes to hiring people with criminal defense experience. Defense attorneys are the ones who often hate DAs with a passion and will hold DA internships against you (probably because we actually win like 95% of our trials and they don't).

Also, get comfortable reading a fact pattern and delivering an opening/closing on the fly. Most DA Offices require you do this as part of the hiring process, and its usually a huge part of the decision.

I'm not sure what market you will be looking for work in, but if it's similar to Southern California, and you don't have any criminal law work experience and courtroom experience going into post-bar hiring, your shot isn't that good at landing a post-bar gig. The good thing is, though, you're never out of the game with DA hiring. If you don't get anything for post-bar, just keep trying after you pass the bar. I didn't have any criminal law or court experience when I was in law school, and I did civil stuff after I passed the bar. I slowly migrated over to being a prosecutor. It's not like big law where if you strike out at 2L OCI you're pretty much done.

Going into firm after grad, but interested in DA work in Southern California within 5 years. I'm at a T-14 and have done multiple DA internships and thoroughly enjoy the work, but still get extremely nervous with public speaking (no moot court, only minor appearances on the record in front of judges during internships). Any advice on overcoming this fear + how you practiced for the hiring process?

Just piping in - I go to a T2 state school but am going to a NY DA's office this summer. I think I'm the first grad from my school to do so, if not ever, then at least 20 years. Anyway, as far as public speaking goes, I always think of this: no one is going to pay more attention to you than you do. Even juries. Even judges. Even opposing counsel (unless they're looking for those objections). I basically have taught myself to get over myself. Another thing to think about is why you're up there addressing the court. I'm there to do my job to bring justice to my community. In my internship I do mostly DV cases, which means I'm trying to obtain justice for the victim and for the community at large. It helps me get over myself, because this isn't about me or any courtroom glory, but earnestly doing my best to make sure justice is served. If I stutter or forget a word, it's not the end of the world, and as long as I don't burp on the record there's really nothing to be embarrassed about.