What Bar Classes to Take in 3L Year Forum

[BeastfromtheEast]

What bar preparation courses should I take in my 3L year?

Specifically, which of the following courses should I take... or just teach myself?
- Secured Transactions
- Business Associations
- Conflict of Laws
- Wills, Trusts, and Estates

I have heard a lot of conflicting things about which classes I can teach myself for the bar. I plan on being a litigator, either working as a prosecutor or as a Plaintiff's lawyer. I want to take classes that focus on building my knowledge in those topics, but I'm scared of learning some bar material on my own.

I am particularly bad at transactional law, so secured transactions and business associations are particularly unpalatable to me. At the same time, I realize that probably means that those are the classes that I'm least likely to be able to teach myself. For context, I was able to get A's in both Contract Law and Property in 1L, so I'm still capable of doing well in subjects I don't like. In your experience, what is your opinion on what courses I should take?

[FND]

What bar preparation courses should I take in my 3L year?

Specifically, which of the following courses should I take... or just teach myself?
- Secured Transactions
- Business Associations
- Conflict of Laws
- Wills, Trusts, and Estates

I have heard a lot of conflicting things about which classes I can teach myself for the bar. I plan on being a litigator, either working as a prosecutor or as a Plaintiff's lawyer. I want to take classes that focus on building my knowledge in those topics, but I'm scared of learning some bar material on my own.

I am particularly bad at transactional law, so secured transactions and business associations are particularly unpalatable to me. At the same time, I realize that probably means that those are the classes that I'm least likely to be able to teach myself. For context, I was able to get A's in both Contract Law and Property in 1L, so I'm still capable of doing well in subjects I don't like. In your experience, what is your opinion on what courses I should take?

personally, I'd say don't take classes just for the bar. Odds are that the class won't teach to the bar, so you'll be learning a lot of stuff you have no interest in and will be of no use to you. I don't know what state you plan on taking the bar in, which might make a difference, but, those topics you mentioned are not the most important for the bar - certainly not a semester's worth.

For the bar exam, just take the prep course (barbri/themis/kaplan/marino/whatever). If you do most of the course, you should pass the bar.

[nixy]

I agree with FND.

FWIW, I had actual profs tell me that wills/trusts/estates is easy to teach yourself for the bar.

I didn’t take any of the above subjects and while my essays on secured transactions/business associations were pretty terrible, I passed easily.

[FND]

I agree with FND.

FWIW, I had actual profs tell me that wills/trusts/estates is easy to teach yourself for the bar.

I didn’t take any of the above subjects and while my essays on secured transactions/business associations were pretty terrible, I passed easily.

Just because it's one of my primary fields, even my wills/trust professor buddy will agree that that class doesn't teach anything useful. It's a very tempting field to dabble, but a little bit of knowledge can do a lot of harm, and I frequently get paid to fix another attorney's mes

I didn't take any classes for the bar, and I was fine. Yes, it helps to have an understanding before you start, but, what you learn in class versus what you learn for the bar are two different things. If you're really worried, just take fluff classes during the last semester so you can start prepping for the bar rather than paying attention to your classes (I had classmates who started bar prep the day he books became available in, I think February)

[QContinuum]

What bar preparation courses should I take in my 3L year?

Specifically, which of the following courses should I take... or just teach myself?
- Secured Transactions
- Business Associations
- Conflict of Laws
- Wills, Trusts, and Estates

I have heard a lot of conflicting things about which classes I can teach myself for the bar. I plan on being a litigator, either working as a prosecutor or as a Plaintiff's lawyer. I want to take classes that focus on building my knowledge in those topics, but I'm scared of learning some bar material on my own.

Contrary to the posters above, I think all of those classes will be helpful, except for Trusts & Estates. Conflict of laws is bread and butter in litigation, and if you want to be a plaintiff's lawyer, you ought to understand something about businesses and secured transactions. If you were able to get As in Contracts and Property you should be able to nail Sec Trans with no issue.

[FND]

What bar preparation courses should I take in my 3L year?

Specifically, which of the following courses should I take... or just teach myself?
- Secured Transactions
- Business Associations
- Conflict of Laws
- Wills, Trusts, and Estates

I have heard a lot of conflicting things about which classes I can teach myself for the bar. I plan on being a litigator, either working as a prosecutor or as a Plaintiff's lawyer. I want to take classes that focus on building my knowledge in those topics, but I'm scared of learning some bar material on my own.

Contrary to the posters above, I think all of those classes will be helpful, except for Trusts & Estates. Conflict of laws is bread and butter in litigation, and if you want to be a plaintiff's lawyer, you ought to understand something about businesses and secured transactions. If you were able to get As in Contracts and Property you should be able to nail Sec Trans with no issue.

I'm not saying those classes won't be helpful (except T&E. that class doesn't teach anything useful). Just that I don't think a 3L should take those classes just because they're on the bar.
If you do litigation, conflict of law should be mandatory. If you go into transactional work, Sec Trans is very important. And Business Associations useful for many different reasons. But in terms of bar preparation, taking the class just for that reason is overkill and a distraction.

[QContinuum]

Contrary to the posters above, I think all of those classes will be helpful, except for Trusts & Estates. Conflict of laws is bread and butter in litigation, and if you want to be a plaintiff's lawyer, you ought to understand something about businesses and secured transactions. If you were able to get As in Contracts and Property you should be able to nail Sec Trans with no issue.

I'm not saying those classes won't be helpful (except T&E. that class doesn't teach anything useful). Just that I don't think a 3L should take those classes just because they're on the bar.
If you do litigation, conflict of law should be mandatory. If you go into transactional work, Sec Trans is very important. And Business Associations useful for many different reasons. But in terms of bar preparation, taking the class just for that reason is overkill and a distraction.

Then we agree entirely. Thanks for following up!

[Smiddywesson]

I disagree with the question. I understand why you asked it, and commend the idea of getting ready for the bar, but consider the following:

If you look over the history of the MEE, the depth of the testing on these subjects is ridiculously shallow. Read an outline, take the bar.
Most people pass the exam, the bar is set pretty darn low.
If you fail the bar, you just retake it. On the other hand, your grades follow you forever.
Therefore, take whatever you are most motivated to study. If you are just interested, great. If you are motivated because you might practice in those areas, that's the way to go too.

Don't take my word for it, go to somebody like Joe Separac or Studicata, these review companies have done the analysis of what's tested on these subjects. It's not a big deal at all. For example, in Secured Transactions, I read a Studicata outline twice, listened to the Barbri lecture, looked over Tanicus's advice, and I think I nailed it. If you want to get ready for the bar, start preparing for the MBE, that's the big hurtle. If you are strong on the MBE, everything will go like clockwork.

[FND]

Therefore, take whatever you are most motivated to study.

screw that. 3L spring semester take everything pass/fail, and do the bare minimum to pass. Bar prep is a marathon, and you want to start early (not too early, but certainly before your final exam)

[nixy]

or you could just start when your bar prep course starts, do what it recommends, and pass just fine.

[Smiddywesson]

or you could just start when your bar prep course starts, do what it recommends, and pass just fine.

You could, and most people pass, however you are in a better position to say where you are strong and where you are weak. The top two or three big bar review courses pretty much own the market, and with everyone noticing that pass rates are continually falling they own that result and you are endorsing it.

I have some very serious reasons for endorsing some aspects of the big review course materials, nobody else has the resources to game the system, but I will be damned if I'll pay someone $4k to send me 24" of materials I have no time to read, much of which is no longer tested, provide me EXCELLENT lectures that most people don't need, and fill me full of scare stories that it's my fault if I don't slurp down everything they throw at me. I thought you paid a coach to tell you what is important, that's not their program. It's your fault if you don't follow their impossible schedule.

"...do what it recommends, and pass just fine"

Do not be naive, plenty of people fail by just doing what it recommends.

[nixy]

But you already noted, most people pass. (Are all pass rates actually continually falling, or is that just California? My state has pretty much landed in the same range for the last 10 years or so.)

I just don't see any reason to complicate your last semester of school with early study.

[FND]

or you could just start when your bar prep course starts, do what it recommends, and pass just fine.

My bar prep course had a ridiculous timetable. I think it recommended two months of full-time studying (like, 8hrs a day). Seeing as most people can't study all day every day for two straight months without going crazy, most people I knew started earlier, in April, but studied less. Like, instead of 2 months of 8 hours per day, they did 4 months of 4 hours per day, or something like that. Or, more realistically, started slow, like 2-3 hours per day, ramping up to 8-10 hours per day in the final two weeks.

Just about everyone I knew was unable to finish the bar prep course in its entirety, but had done the majority of the course and passed. Better to be overprepared than underprepared.

Edit: according to http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/h ... y-bar-exam the average law school student needs to spend 400 hours prepping for the bar, and those studying full-time (40-50 hrs/week) need to start at a minimum 9 weeks ahead of the exam, and that many part-time students spend 15-20 weeks studying 20 hrs per week.
This is roughly consistent with the recommendations of Barbri, Kaplan and Themis.

[nixy]

I did Barbri, which definitely suffers from overkill/trying to scare you about failing (so that when you pass you’ll attribute it all to barbri and recommend them to everyone!). No one I know started early, almost no one completed all the assigned materials, almost everyone passed, and the people who didn’t pass fell into 3 groups: 1) blew off studying 2) got sick the day of the exam or 3) (a very small number) legit studied hard but just have brains that, while still very smart, struggle specifically with the particular format of the bar exam. The biggest group (still small) was people who blew off studying. “Studying all day” meant viewing lectures in the am and reading/practice stuff in the pm. So, “all day” but not unmanageable at all and not too different from being in school, if you could stay focused (I admit that’s not always easy).

I mean the process was brutal while going through it, but not because it was an impossible amount of work, just because it’s a mindfuck because you know so much is riding on the exam, it’s like the most boring black-letter law out there, and for the UBE it doesn’t even test on real law in your jdx (on the one hand not having to do state distinctions was a blessing, but on the other, it feels even more like a hazing ritual). But that part wouldn’t have been any easier if started studying in April instead of at the end of May, I’d have still been a basket case in July.

Of course this varies a little by your school and state and so on. I didn’t take California, I was in a UBE jdx, and my school had a ~93% passage rate. If your school has a worrying pass rate, if you did particularly poorly in law school or know you struggle a lot with multiple choice exams, or you know your jdx’s bar is especially tough, then adjust accordingly. Most of the time though I think you can trust the process.

[albanach]

Strange, I found T&E useful in the bar, and as in house counsel for a non profit. I'd take business associations too, because it'll almost certainly be useful later in your career. UVA had a nice class in Modern Real Estate that was also very helpful for the bar.

Of course, ymmv - some of the decisions might come down to what are your alternatives? Is there something else on offer that's better suited to your career goals?