Job Prospects AFTER completing JAG service? Forum

[helfer snooterbagon]

Note that if you stay in the reserves, you can still hit your 20 (which is the plan of the Navy captain I interviewed with today).

You met an O6 with less than 20 years? He/she must have put on Captain relatively recently, but I guess it is possible since they promote to O3 so fast.

[bahama]

Note that if you stay in the reserves, you can still hit your 20 (which is the plan of the Navy captain I interviewed with today).

You met an O6 with less than 20 years? He/she must have put on Captain relatively recently, but I guess it is possible since they promote to O3 so fast.

It wouldn't be suprising if they were a JAG their whole career:
O2 - 6mo
O3 - 6yrs
O4 - 5-6yrs
O5 - 6 yrs

So they'd make O6 at about 17.5-18.5 yrs.

For someone commisioned as an O1 right out of undergrad you'd need to add 2yrs as an O1 and an additional 1.5 as an O2 to the above. This is why most O6s have over 20yrs except for a few special programs like for JAGs and doctors where you come in as an O2 or O3.

[Kretzy]

This thread is a little disconcerting. Do folks think HYS-JAG Corps could put someone in a pretty good position for both firm and government positions?

[Na_Swatch]

This thread is a little disconcerting. Do folks think HYS-JAG Corps could put someone in a pretty good position for both firm and government positions?

Yeah, wondering about this too. Seemed like it would be ok, but looking at this thread would JAG limit even a HYS grad from getting a firm job?

[bahama]

Here is the thing with your chances at a firm post JAG: You are not going to get in some place that you couldn't have gotten straight from law school, and likely will have a harder time than someone with equal school and grades who was interviewng through OCI.

- You are not going to be able to come in as a 4th year lateral or whatever most of your law school peers are because your experience isn't relevant enough to warrant the extra pay and seniority.
- You may be able to get in as a "new" associate but you probably have the odds as a 3L or a recent grad from your school. Although you have the advantage of some experience, you don't have the OCI "machine" working for you nor do you have a career svcs office that has connections at the firms and that the firms need to keep somewhat happy. And in some cases your experience may work against you if the firm thinks it will have to retrain you.

Obviously coming from a school like HYS or being able to show you graduated at the top of your class from another feeder school is going to help your chances of getting an interview post JAG. There is at least one post-JAG that I know of at an elite DC litigation firm.

[XxSpyKEx]

Here is the thing with your chances at a firm post JAG: You are not going to get in some place that you couldn't have gotten straight from law school, and likely will have a harder time than someone with equal school and grades who was interviewng through OCI.

- You are not going to be able to come in as a 4th year lateral or whatever most of your law school peers are because your experience isn't relevant enough to warrant the extra pay and seniority.
- You may be able to get in as a "new" associate but you probably have the odds as a 3L or a recent grad from your school. Although you have the advantage of some experience, you don't have the OCI "machine" working for you nor do you have a career svcs office that has connections at the firms and that the firms need to keep somewhat happy. And in some cases your experience may work against you if the firm thinks it will have to retrain you.

Obviously coming from a school like HYS or being able to show you graduated at the top of your class from another feeder school is going to help your chances of getting an interview post JAG. There is at least one post-JAG that I know of at an elite DC litigation firm.

I'd say your odds as getting into biglaw as a "new" associate are shittier then a 3L or recent grad from your school after 3-4 years of JAG. The HYS nametag is a good one for biglaw, but not so much after spending years in JAG. I know with biglaw prestige is a lot bigger factor then in other places but for the most part what a top school degree gets you is that foot into that first job (this is really true with pretty much any degree). It's going to be a lot more about what you did 4 years out then about where you went to school. By working at JAG you didn't work at a large law firm, didn't do what a typical associate does (whether it be complex transactions or complex civil litigation), didn't develop the relationships with clients that a typical 4th or 5th year associate should have, etc, etc. I think you would need some serious countervailing factors weighing in your favor to go into biglaw after JAG (such as you're good friends with numerous partners at the firm you want to go to). So in other words, it possible to go from JAG --> biglaw, but pretty unlikely. An additional consideration is why the hell would you even want to work in biglaw after spending 4 years in JAG? The typical law school grad that goes into biglaw does it right after graduation, spends a few years there, hates life but manages for a few year while paying down student loans and getting a headstart financially, and then get's the fuck out (or is forced out) and makes use of the numerous exit options that are available as a former biglaw associate.

[bahama]

Deleted double post.

[bahama]

If you did find a Big Law job after JAG, you'd almost certainly be coming in as a "new" first year associate while your law school classmates who started at the firm upon graduation would be 4th or 5th year associates.

You would be competing for the very few entry level associate positions available outside of OCI against some former clerks who didn't have something lined up or whose plans changed, a bunch of 3Ls, random junior associates who got laid off when their firm collapsed or downsized, and other people trying to make the transition that you are from govt or something to a firm. In other words lots of people going after very few open spots.

[Fiction]

edit

[enigmaingr]

Along with what others said about the best exit options usually being government or small/solo private practice, it's important to be aware of the types of people attracted to Biglaw and JAG. Typically, a person who wants Biglaw is not the same type of person that would consider JAG and vice versa.

While it may be possible to go JAG --> Biglaw, I doubt that you'd even want to after four years in the military. That prestige and money just won't motivate you anymore.

[princepointe]

Thanks for the input, but ugh...

Everyone seems to preface their advice/comments with "Now I'm not a JAG, so take this as you will, but...".

Nice of people to give the warning, but I wish someone from JAG could help out. So far in all the forum posts and websites I've read, everyone is either ONLY a serviceman or only a lawyer/law student.

Really? Do you really expect that JAG lawyers will be on this forum? Thats like saying you wish Deans of Admissions were here to answer your admissions questions. lol. This is a secondhand forum. This is the type of info your going to get especially regarding such a niche field like JAG.

[XxSpyKEx]

Thanks for the input, but ugh...

Everyone seems to preface their advice/comments with "Now I'm not a JAG, so take this as you will, but...".

Nice of people to give the warning, but I wish someone from JAG could help out. So far in all the forum posts and websites I've read, everyone is either ONLY a serviceman or only a lawyer/law student.

Really? Do you really expect that JAG lawyers will be on this forum? Thats like saying you wish Deans of Admissions were here to answer your admissions questions. lol. This is a secondhand forum. This is the type of info your going to get especially regarding such a niche field like JAG.

There actually is at least one dean of admissions that comes here and answers prospective student questions.

[Undead_Ed]

Really? Do you really expect that JAG lawyers will be on this forum? Thats like saying you wish Deans of Admissions were here to answer your admissions questions. lol. This is a secondhand forum. This is the type of info your going to get especially regarding such a niche field like JAG.

Well, maybe not in this forum, but there are at least two JAGs that post regularly in the "Military Law" forum. Also there are a number of former servicemembers and law students in the application process.

Have any of you guys heard of a firm called Holland and Hart? They are probably among the most reputable in the West, and probably the closest thing to "BigLaw" that we have. There is a guy there who is a former Air Force Judge after having done 20 years. However, he is Of Counsel. They didn't start him on the associate/partner path. I think that means he probably can't make partner, but I'm not sure. I think this means that once you start doing the JAG path, it would be hard to start over. But you can always lock in a sweet job in addition to your half-pay stipend for life.

[Ohiobumpkin]

Sorry to necro this thread, but I have a question. Would your years in JAG count towards years of experience for determining your place on federal GS payscale? It definitely appears your JAG years of experience do not count for law firms, but wonder if they do for government work as an Attorney Advisor or similar federal position.

[Beas]

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Anyway, that's my opinion. Each branch is a little different when it comes to the type of applicant they are looking for (for example Navy take looks real hard at grades and take the top 9% of all applicants, Marines look real hard at pull-ups), but regardless of their respective criteria, it's a competitive process. Happy to answer any other questions.

[Rowinguy2009]

Sorry to necro this thread, but I have a question. Would your years in JAG count towards years of experience for determining your place on federal GS payscale? It definitely appears your JAG years of experience do not count for law firms, but wonder if they do for government work as an Attorney Advisor or similar federal position.

Current fed employee here. Yes, they will count.