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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:25 pm
by JAG Hopeful
So, I’ve basically heard back that I’m permanently disqualified. My recruiter has me doing some last-ditch Hail Mary approaches, but he’s not hopeful, and now I have to be realistic. I’ve been pursuing this since undergrad, so this is rather crushing. But if it’s not in the cards, that’s that.
That said, I still want to serve, and particularly do so in the Navy. Does anyone have any knowledge (other than general from their website) about work in the Office of the General Counsel of the Navy, or working as a civilian in the Navy JAG? I’m hoping it’s not impossible to get hired right out of law school; they do have GS-11 positions open for recent grads. Anyone know about what the work looks like on the day-to-day level?
(Going to post on the main thread too).
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:47 pm
by S. Goodman
JAG Hopeful wrote:So, I’ve basically heard back that I’m permanently disqualified. My recruiter has me doing some last-ditch Hail Mary approaches, but he’s not hopeful, and now I have to be realistic. I’ve been pursuing this since undergrad, so this is rather crushing. But if it’s not in the cards, that’s that.
That said, I still want to serve, and particularly do so in the Navy. Does anyone have any knowledge (other than general from their website) about work in the Office of the General Counsel of the Navy, or working as a civilian in the Navy JAG? I’m hoping it’s not impossible to get hired right out of law school; they do have GS-11 positions open for recent grads. Anyone know about what the work looks like on the day-to-day level?
(Going to post on the main thread too).
Responded in the other thread before I saw this one.
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:33 pm
by Sportsmania902
Just wanted to add some stuff to this thread.
I applied to both Navy JAG (Spring board) and Air Force JAG (Spring Board).
My stats are: T1, close to top 35%, moot court, secondary journal, Clinic, Research Assistant, and some volunteer experience and varied legal experience.
As far as NAVY JAG goes I thought my interview went really well. Bonded really well with my interviewer and I thought I handled the situational questions pretty well.
For Air Force JAG it is my second time applying. Denied the first time. During my second interview the SJA said he was going to give me the strongest possible recommendation that he could. He also said at the December board they had 550 applicants and they took 30 people. Brutally competitive.
Just wanted to throw out my info and see where people are at. I'm desperately hoping JAG works out because it seems to be the last potential opportunity that I'm interested in.
Good luck everybody!
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:37 pm
by ShockTop
Sportsmania902 wrote:
Just wanted to throw out my info and see where people are at. I'm desperately hoping JAG works out because it seems to be the last potential opportunity that I'm interested in.
Even if you don't get picked, don't sweat it too badly. Find a topic that you're interested in, work with your career center or friends in/out of school to find a position that has your interests, and use that to make you a better applicant for DAP if you want to keep trying post-grad. I was rejected from the SP for Navy multiple times and ended up getting an awesome opportunity, non-JAG, that I feel helped me as an attorney and that I would have never looked for otherwise. I look at it as a way to make me a better applicant for the next DAP board this year and beyond.
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:34 pm
by disarono
Applied for a Navy Jag (DA) spot in Feb. Not sure if the Navy recruiter liked me during the interview. Application is currently "pending." Also waiting on AF internship application for this summer.
Planning to apply for AF in Oct. If all else fails, gonna try going active duty USMC after graduation.
Anyone else waiting on Navy Jag?
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:28 pm
by ShockTop
disarono wrote:Applied for a Navy Jag (DA) spot in Feb. Not sure if the Navy recruiter liked me during the interview. Application is currently "pending." Also waiting on AF internship application for this summer.
Planning to apply for AF in Oct. If all else fails, gonna try going active duty USMC after graduation.
Anyone else waiting on Navy Jag?
Also applied DA and am waiting. Last two years, the results came out first week of May.
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:36 pm
by Navy2015
Well, I caved and made an account just to post in this thread. No offense to anyone here, but I have always kind of hated this site because it seems to wind everyone up who reads the threads and make them more worried than before about their chances at admission and jobs. And law students are the last group of people who need any more winding up... But hey, here I am, taking advantage of the positive side (the only place where you can find people worried about the same things as you) of it too.
I don't have much to add because I'm a DA applicant. Given how few people are selected for DA each year, there's probably no real way of knowing what they're looking for in particular. So, I won't bother going through my resume. I'll just say that there are things that I think give me a chance, and then I realize that it's delusional to ever believe you'll be 1 of 4 people selected for something, and I come back to reality.
However, I do know a lot about ODS and OTCN generally, so if anyone has any questions....
OP, not sure if you got this particular part answered or not--but as far as when you pass the PFA, it's not anytime soon. Actually, don't quote me on that, because I have no idea if a student pool applicant would have to do something over the summer fitness-related, but you actually have a full year from the day you go to ODS before you suffer any consequence for not passing a PFA yet. At least, that's what I was told by someone who was in charge of administering it to them. You really shouldn't worry. Navy JAG seems great in a lot of ways, but hardcore fitness requirements is apparently not one of them.
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:44 pm
by Navy2015
ShockTop wrote:disarono wrote:Applied for a Navy Jag (DA) spot in Feb. Not sure if the Navy recruiter liked me during the interview. Application is currently "pending." Also waiting on AF internship application for this summer.
Planning to apply for AF in Oct. If all else fails, gonna try going active duty USMC after graduation.
Anyone else waiting on Navy Jag?
Also applied DA and am waiting. Last two years, the results came out first week of May.
The results for last year's spring deadline were released on April 22, so I think it might end up being closer to the estimated "8 weeks after application deadline." Which is honestly a miracle, given how vague the dates involved in any other process with the Navy seem to be. Probably better to expect to wait until May.
Which reminds me of another thing OP asked but am not positive whether it was answered... something along the lines of "is a professional recommendation the big hurdle, and after that, you're fine?" Yes and no. It's certainly the part you have the most control over and the part that you earn... but the stuff that comes after recommendation but you need to do before you commission are just as serious in that if you don't meet the qualifications, you won't do the job. It's basically just medical and security clearance stuff. Most people won't have trouble with security clearance, but medical stuff is... real. Lots of things that don't seem important or like a hindrance to you at all will get you barred. I have no idea if they are as strict about it for Staff Officers (like JAGs) as they are for line officers, but given that the JAG application process is reversed (they decide whether you're academically qualified before they know that you're medically qualified), I would assume a lot of people must get recommended but never commission.
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:53 pm
by TheSpanishMain
Navy2015 wrote: I would assume a lot of people must get recommended but never commission.
I had an Army JAG mention this to me. He said it's one of the reasons prior-service people tend to be perceived as having the inside track: it's not just that having a military background looks good on your resume, it's also a pretty good sign that this person doesn't have any hidden, disqualifying medical issues, considering they've already been found fit for service once.
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:38 am
by S. Goodman
OP here,
just stopping by to check in. It is April 1st, and I am hopeful that we will get the results back from the Navy sometime late this month. Although I haven't been responding to every new post I have been lurking, and keeping up with the thread. Just trying to keep my mind off the impending decision!
I did have one question to the person who posted this . . .
ShockTop wrote:I was rejected from the SP for Navy multiple times
Can you share what you think may have been going wrong with your application? I suppose I just always thought that if a person applied to every Navy board they could while in law school (four times) that they were likely to get at least one, to hear otherwise is very concerning.
Also, I have another question to anyone who knows . . .
If any of us were to be professionally recommended . . . how long does the person have to "accept" that job? The real question is, if you found out you got PR'd can you sit on that for a few months, say until after 3L OCI, or after you lose some more weight to get into Navy regulation, or to have some medical issue corrected secretly etc. etc., before you proceed with MEPS and the security clearance stuff? Is that an option, and if so how long can you hold out before you MUST go to MEPS after you are PR'd?
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:50 pm
by TheSpanishMain
Good luck to everyone waiting.
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:16 pm
by JEB
S. Goodman wrote:OP here,
Also, I have another question to anyone who knows . . .
If any of us were to be professionally recommended . . . how long does the person have to "accept" that job? The real question is, if you found out you got PR'd can you sit on that for a few months, say until after 3L OCI, or after you lose some more weight to get into Navy regulation, or to have some medical issue corrected secretly etc. etc., before you proceed with MEPS and the security clearance stuff? Is that an option, and if so how long can you hold out before you MUST go to MEPS after you are PR'd?
I was given approximately two weeks to accept/reject the professional recommendation (notified December 9, had until December 22). Of course, I sent my acceptance half an hour after the initial email was sent.
My processor contacted me on January 1 to get the commissioning process started. It was stressed that it was important to get through the MEPS process as quickly as possible. I had to do several medical tests before reporting to MEPS, and I still managed to make it there on February 12.
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:24 pm
by Navy2015
Saul, just a word of caution about getting medical things taken care of "secretly"... if you get get PR'd, you will fill out multiple sheets where you're asked if you currently have or have ever had certain medical conditions. This will be before you commission, and after you commission while at ODS. Lying on any of these forms is illegal and will probably lead to your losing your potential commission if they find out you lied before commissioning. You will also be asked multiple times for all your past medical paperwork... so of course if you have access to something, and don't turn it in, that's not exactly honest either. Now, I'm not telling you to do anything, or to not do anything. I don't know what you're trying to get taken care of, but if it's something that you're sure will get you disqualified, perhaps you've made the determination that it's worth the risk.
Or maybe I've just misunderstood, and you meant get it taken care of, disclose it as a past condition on all the forms (all of which give you a chance to explain it, as far as I know), and simply avoid the risk of MEPS docs or NHCNE docs of overreacting to something and making your life hell by making you go through a bunch of medical hoops.
Looks like the question about timing of acceptance and MEPS has been answered. I don't think all that many people get NPQ'd at MEPS. It's more like... they see something they're not sure about, and they have a dozen 18 year old National Guard enlisted guys to get through on the same day, so they put you on Medical Hold and send you to another doctor to get it looked at.
As far as security clearance goes, that process won't start too quickly. The military doesn't use the FBI anymore for it, as far as I know. Your NASIS form gets sent to a private company to conduct the investigation and interview your contacts... they use employees installed in all regions of the country to do it, and all those people have to send their reports in before a final conclusion is made. So you can imagine how disjointed it is--my friends received calls over a wide range of times to be interviewed. I was never even told when it was concluded or what the results were. I assume I got clearance. One thing I would be curious to know is whether you need a security clearance to go through before starting ODS--you don't need it to be finished before starting other Officer Training programs, but you don't commission until those are over.
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:31 pm
by TheSpanishMain
Saul, aren't you a prior Marine? If whatever condition didn't dq you before you're probably fine again
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:11 pm
by Navy2015
TheSpanishMain wrote:Saul, aren't you a prior Marine? If whatever condition didn't dq you before you're probably fine again
Oh, didn't realize. He probably already realized all that stuff I said, then.
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:00 pm
by S. Goodman
Navy2015 wrote:Saul, just a word of caution about getting medical things taken care of "secretly"... Lying on any of these forms is illegal ... so of course if you have access to something, and don't turn it in, that's not exactly honest either....
Thank you all for the informative responses. To clarify, I was only offering the medical issue as an example of why someone might want to sit on their PR for a little while, or 3L OCI, or Height/weight etc. etc.. I am prior military, and I don't have any medical issues that I know of, if I did however I certainly would not try to conceal it or be dishonest in any way.
To be honest, what I am mostly concerned with is the height/weight standards, which is why I asked about sitting on a PR before going to MEPS. If you could wait a little while that would allow for more time to get prepared.
How do you all think that would be handled if it were to happen? I.e. you get PR'd and go to MEPS, but are slightly overweight based on the Navy height/weight chart, but you are otherwise medically qualified, what do you think would happen? From my recollection from being in the Marines, height/weight issues are extremely common, given the wide variance in body type, so I am sure this has happened to other people in the past. As always, any insight or wisdom is greatly appreciated.
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:08 pm
by S. Goodman
JEB wrote:S. Goodman wrote:
If any of us were to be professionally recommended . . . how long does the person have to "accept" that job?
I was given approximately two weeks to accept/reject the professional recommendation (notified December 9, had until December 22).
I had to do several medical tests before reporting to MEPS, and I still managed to make it there on February 12.
These medical tests that you had to do before you went to MEPS . . . are those tests something that everyone must do? Or did you have some specific medical thing that had to be sussed out before you went to MEPS? Just trying to discern whether your timeline will be similar or the same as other peoples.
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:09 am
by JEB
S. Goodman wrote:JEB wrote:S. Goodman wrote:
If any of us were to be professionally recommended . . . how long does the person have to "accept" that job?
I was given approximately two weeks to accept/reject the professional recommendation (notified December 9, had until December 22).
I had to do several medical tests before reporting to MEPS, and I still managed to make it there on February 12.
These medical tests that you had to do before you went to MEPS . . . are those tests something that everyone must do? Or did you have some specific medical thing that had to be sussed out before you went to MEPS? Just trying to discern whether your timeline will be similar or the same as other peoples.
I had asthma in my medical history, so I had to do a few tests to confirm that I no longer have asthma. If I hadn't needed that, I probably would have been in to MEPS about 2 weeks earlier.
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:54 pm
by S. Goodman
JEB wrote:S. Goodman wrote:JEB wrote:
I had to do several medical tests before reporting to MEPS, and I still managed to make it there on February 12.
These medical tests that you had to do before you went to MEPS . . . are those tests something that everyone must do? Just trying to discern whether your timeline will be similar or the same as other peoples.
I had asthma in my medical history, so I had to do a few tests to confirm that I no longer have asthma. If I hadn't needed that, I probably would have been in to MEPS about 2 weeks earlier.
Thank you for the information.
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:43 pm
by Aspen
The Student Program website has been updated to say, "The selection board will be held in April and we expect to notify selectees in May."
Also, do we need to submit ALL of our medical records from when we were born? My prior experience with MEPS was that you only have to submit records that deal with relevant yes answers on the 2807-2. Is it a different MEPS process for officer candidates? If that's the case it's gonna suck because three of my pediatricians are dead and one's office actually burnt down (along with my records...#FML)!
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:46 pm
by S. Goodman
Aspen wrote: My experience with MEPS was that you only have to submit records that deal with relevant yes answers on the 2807-2. Is it a different MEPS process for officer candidates?
In my experience with MEPS you do not need to submit any medical records whatsoever. My recruiter made my appointment and I pretty much just waltzed in right off the street without any paperwork or preparation at all. However, (1) this was 7 years ago, and (2) I didn't have any relevant medical issues to report, I'm not allergic to anything, never had a broken bone, no asthma etc. etc.
With that being said 7 years is a long time and a lot could have changed between now and then. There is a lot of talk on here about medical tests before MEPS, and getting medical records etc. I don't know if this is the typical rigamarole with MEPS now or if we're hearing about these things here because people have special medical issues that required extra steps.
It doesn't seem logical that officers would have a different medical screening process than enlisted guys, so I'd imagine my experience 7 years ago is a good representation of what both officers and enlisted guys had to go through. However, military processes aren't necessarily always governed by reason, so it is possible there is two different processes for officers and enlisted, albeit unlikely.
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:04 pm
by TheSpanishMain
Aspen wrote:The Student Program website has been updated to say, "The selection board will be held in April and we expect to notify selectees in May."
Also, do we need to submit ALL of our medical records from when we were born? My prior experience with MEPS was that you only have to submit records that deal with relevant yes answers on the 2807-2. Is it a different MEPS process for officer candidates? If that's the case it's gonna suck because three of my pediatricians are dead and one's office actually burnt down (along with my records...#FML)!
Dumb question, but this is the Spring board, correct? And the fall board results come out in like November? Just trying to get a sense of the timeline.
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:12 pm
by JEB
Aspen wrote:The Student Program website has been updated to say, "The selection board will be held in April and we expect to notify selectees in May."
Also, do we need to submit ALL of our medical records from when we were born? My prior experience with MEPS was that you only have to submit records that deal with relevant yes answers on the 2807-2. Is it a different MEPS process for officer candidates? If that's the case it's gonna suck because three of my pediatricians are dead and one's office actually burnt down (along with my records...#FML)!
Basically, take a look at this form:
https://dmna.ny.gov/arng/ocs/forms/DD28 ... Report.pdf
Any question that you have to answer "Yes" to, you need to be able to explain. Any "yes" answer that you have medical records relating to, gather the records so that you can send them in to your processor along with the documents.
You won't need medical records if all of your answers are "no."
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:27 pm
by S. Goodman
JEB wrote:
You won't need medical records if all of your answers are "no."
Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:13 am
by Navy2015
Aspen wrote:The Student Program website has been updated to say, "The selection board will be held in April and we expect to notify selectees in May."
So naive of me to believe in the 8 weeks from deadline date... god damnit.
Aspen wrote:Also, do we need to submit ALL of our medical records from when we were born? My prior experience with MEPS was that you only have to submit records that deal with relevant yes answers on the 2807-2. Is it a different MEPS process for officer candidates? If that's the case it's gonna suck because three of my pediatricians are dead and one's office actually burnt down (along with my records...#FML)!
Even if they theoretically required you to just submit everything you have, regardless of your answers on the forms, they accept "no" for an answer regarding the existence of medical records. Many officer candidates are simply told by their recruiters to submit all of their medical records (don't know if that's because laziness on recruiters' part, or just different policies), and if you tell them you have nothing (because all your records are old and destroyed) they don't care as long as there's no issue.