Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

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MichaelGScott

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby MichaelGScott » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:46 pm

Any idea how quick the turnaround will be for selecting paid summer interns following the 4 April deadline? I will have to back out of another opportunity I have accepted if selected. I am also waiting for Spring Board results and would love an opportunity to intern at a RLSO, but it is not going to be fun breaking a previous commitment.

Elle in Combat Boots

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby Elle in Combat Boots » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:30 pm

MichaelGScott wrote:Any idea how quick the turnaround will be for selecting paid summer interns following the 4 April deadline? I will have to back out of another opportunity I have accepted if selected. I am also waiting for Spring Board results and would love an opportunity to intern at a RLSO, but it is not going to be fun breaking a previous commitment.


Unfortunately, I don't think anyone knows. Because it's a paid gig, there are a lot more offices/departments involved than with the unpaid internships. Best estimate: selection notifications made first week of May for an early June start date? Timing isn't great, obviously. I'll post timelines if I hear of any.

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howell

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby howell » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:46 pm

lawdaddy1 wrote:
Thank you very much sir! :) I am most interested in AF Jag (I know wrong post, sorry Navy) and am seriously considering
the GLP program. I have heard that this puts a fairly heavy workload on an already busy law students life but am willing to do this.
Can you highlight any reasons why I should do GLP vs the one year program or DA other than the obvious? How soon can you hit
the ground running once the training is done? Is there such thing as a typical case load or is it all over the map depending
on the base etc? I am a 0L and will be choosing between Notre Dame and Vandy in the next couple of weeks. I know ND has
an ROTC attached and Vandy uses cross town Tennessee State, but does having an ROTC on campus help an ND student get the
prorec any more than a Vandy student? This is something I worry about and would influence my decision. Lastly with a 167 LSAT
and assuming median make me competitive for a GLP spot? Sorry for all the questions but I am seriously looking at this and am very focused on the criminal aspect of law so any help is greatly appreciated.

I did my best to answer your questions over on he Military Law thread so as to not hijack this thread too much.

lawdaddy1

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby lawdaddy1 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:06 am

Elle in Combat Boots wrote:
lawdaddy1 wrote:Can any current JAG speak to work life after FTJA? Do court room things pick up after the first
two years of hand holding? I have heard stories..... I don't just "want a job". I would be doing this to get
active trial experience and time in the court room. Wondering the differences between AF and Navy in this regard.
Marine JAG seems to be the most active, can anyone comment on that? Thanks for any input.


If you want a MILJUS billet after FTJA, you usually can get it but a lot comes down to timing, the available billets when you rotate, and YOUR flexibility w.r.t. those billets. Most second tour LTs I know either did SJA stuff (i.e. base SJA, carrier-mini, ARG, sub squadron) or they went MILJUS (to include OJAG appellate codes).

They also adjusted the FTJA program (previously mentioned on this forum) where your second full year is spent either in defense or trial. This is meant to allow FTJAs to get courtroom experience. Those participating in the redesigned program are just now starting their MILJUS rotation, so stay tuned to hear how much courtroom experience they get during that year.


Thank you Elle. That is good news from my perspective as I had not seen anything about the change to the second year of FTJA. I will look for that.

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Dawg57

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby Dawg57 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:45 am

lawdaddy1 wrote:
Elle in Combat Boots wrote:
lawdaddy1 wrote:Can any current JAG speak to work life after FTJA? Do court room things pick up after the first
two years of hand holding? I have heard stories..... I don't just "want a job". I would be doing this to get
active trial experience and time in the court room. Wondering the differences between AF and Navy in this regard.
Marine JAG seems to be the most active, can anyone comment on that? Thanks for any input.


If you want a MILJUS billet after FTJA, you usually can get it but a lot comes down to timing, the available billets when you rotate, and YOUR flexibility w.r.t. those billets. Most second tour LTs I know either did SJA stuff (i.e. base SJA, carrier-mini, ARG, sub squadron) or they went MILJUS (to include OJAG appellate codes).

They also adjusted the FTJA program (previously mentioned on this forum) where your second full year is spent either in defense or trial. This is meant to allow FTJAs to get courtroom experience. Those participating in the redesigned program are just now starting their MILJUS rotation, so stay tuned to hear how much courtroom experience they get during that year.


Thank you Elle. That is good news from my perspective as I had not seen anything about the change to the second year of FTJA. I will look for that.


Yeah basically, as I was told by my interviewing Commander - it used to be 4, 6 month rotations between Op Law, Legal Aid, Defense and Prosec. or something to that nature. But now of those 24 months, 12 are spent in either prosec. or defense with the idea that this gives you more time to work through some trials over longer terms while giving you substantial perspective. From the outside looking in, seems like a marked improvement on the FTJA plan.

CJLaw09

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby CJLaw09 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:52 am

My understanding from a prior poster is that the Spring Board was held a few weeks ago. If true, that means our fates have already been decided and our lives possibly changed drastically—and we are blissfully unaware.

Does that make anyone else feel the slightest bit weird?

For me, this wait has been wholly different than waiting for bar results.

MichaelGScott

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby MichaelGScott » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:14 pm

Elle in Combat Boots wrote:Unfortunately, I don't think anyone knows. Because it's a paid gig, there are a lot more offices/departments involved than with the unpaid internships. Best estimate: selection notifications made first week of May for an early June start date? Timing isn't great, obviously. I'll post timelines if I hear of any.

Awesome, thanks for the estimation anyways! I definitely wouldn't feel great about backing out with less than a month's notice on someone but I certainly might do it for this opportunity.

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Dawg57

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby Dawg57 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:25 pm

CJLaw09 wrote:My understanding from a prior poster is that the Spring Board was held a few weeks ago. If true, that means our fates have already been decided and our lives possibly changed drastically—and we are blissfully unaware.

Does that make anyone else feel the slightest bit weird?

For me, this wait has been wholly different than waiting for bar results.


Sure, A bit weird for sure. Granted I haven't yet experienced waiting for Bar results, and it is similar in that there will be a point where your fate is sealed and you don't know it yet with that scenario as well. I do think that given the stats for Bar pass rate versus Navy JAG it makes the feel of the whole situation a bit different between the two. Nonetheless, for now, all I have to ponder over is this, and ponder over it daily I do... In a moment of insanity, I nearly considered calling up the accessions office today for a status update, despite knowing there was nothing to learn. But then my better judgment kicked in and I went back to waiting, I mean taking notes in Con Law...

3LOL3

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby 3LOL3 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:44 am

I haven't seen too many already PR'd, commissioned, waiting to graduate 3L's posting lately...so this might not get answered...but have any graduating 3L's going Navy JAG been contacted about submitting geographic preferences yet for first duty station? Getting worried I missed an email or something because I was told that in previous years everyone submitted preferences around January. Elle, have any gouge?

Elle in Combat Boots

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby Elle in Combat Boots » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:50 pm

3LOL3 wrote:I haven't seen too many already PR'd, commissioned, waiting to graduate 3L's posting lately...so this might not get answered...but have any graduating 3L's going Navy JAG been contacted about submitting geographic preferences yet for first duty station? Getting worried I missed an email or something because I was told that in previous years everyone submitted preferences around January. Elle, have any gouge?


The detailing shop is short-staffed and the priority is folks headed to ODS later this month (they just found out where their first duty stations are last week) and LTs PCSing this summer. A single officer handles detailing ODS, NJS, first duty stations, AND all LTs.

I wouldn't worry too much--most people won't find out where they are going until closer to their ODS class date anyway.

FWIW, still no anticipated release date on Spring Board results...

Elle in Combat Boots

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby Elle in Combat Boots » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:17 pm

Belay my last.

Results are out. PRORECs & Alternates have been notified via email, everyone's status on application site updated.

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Dawg57

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby Dawg57 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:28 pm

Elle in Combat Boots wrote:Belay my last.

Results are out. PRORECs & Alternates have been notified via email, everyone's status on application site updated.


Thanks Elle for the continuous updates. Congrats to all those PRO REC'd. I'll be curious to see what the numbers look like. I was not so lucky this time. But have two more bites at the apple. But sitting on this all summer and wondering how on earth to improve my application over the next 5 months without the ability to interview again, is going to be rough. But worth it in the long run if it ultimately means a PR.

I hope others have more positive and exciting news to share today!

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby jaglaw23 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:17 pm

I've been a long time lurker and thank everyone for the information that I've read and has been a great help! I got Pro-rec'd can't believe it, got dinged on my first application and wasn't so hopeful this time around.

I have a question for those that have done the physical assessment. From what I've read, the max body fat allowed is 23%. But, what I can't tell is whether your body fat is measured if you are below the maximum weight allowed for your height. I easily meet any weight requirement, but, am skinny-fat so I'm not sure my body fat is below 23%. Will they measure body fat if I am below the weight requirement.

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby ak7ja » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:21 pm

jaglaw23 wrote:I've been a long time lurker and thank everyone for the information that I've read and has been a great help! I got Pro-rec'd can't believe it, got dinged on my first application and wasn't so hopeful this time around.

I have a question for those that have done the physical assessment. From what I've read, the max body fat allowed is 23%. But, what I can't tell is whether your body fat is measured if you are below the maximum weight allowed for your height. I easily meet any weight requirement, but, am skinny-fat so I'm not sure my body fat is below 23%. Will they measure body fat if I am below the weight requirement.



Congrats! They'll only tape you if you don't meet the height/weight requirements.

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usn26

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby usn26 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:26 pm

No joy x4. For a half second there I thought I had a chance lol.

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby lawschoolgirl12345 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:07 pm

I didn't get in second time around. How much do grades matter? Because everything else seems to be great for me except law school grades. LSAT if great, lots of work experience (USAO, state court judge, navy jag summer internship), interview went well, undergrad grades are stellar (almost 4.0 GPA), lots of extracurrilars in law school and undergrad, diversity factor (bilingual and lived in europe for 18 years), gave up my citizenship for the internship with navy jag, photo on app looks great, maybe letter of intent was alright but could be better...Why are my law school grades holding me back so much? How much do grades matter?

jaglaw23

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby jaglaw23 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:53 pm

ak7ja wrote:
jaglaw23 wrote:I've been a long time lurker and thank everyone for the information that I've read and has been a great help! I got Pro-rec'd can't believe it, got dinged on my first application and wasn't so hopeful this time around.

I have a question for those that have done the physical assessment. From what I've read, the max body fat allowed is 23%. But, what I can't tell is whether your body fat is measured if you are below the maximum weight allowed for your height. I easily meet any weight requirement, but, am skinny-fat so I'm not sure my body fat is below 23%. Will they measure body fat if I am below the weight requirement.



Congrats! They'll only tape you if you don't meet the height/weight requirements.



Great news! Thanks

jaglaw23

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby jaglaw23 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:01 pm

lawschoolgirl12345 wrote:I didn't get in second time around. How much do grades matter? Because everything else seems to be great for me except law school grades. LSAT if great, lots of work experience (USAO, state court judge, navy jag summer internship), interview went well, undergrad grades are stellar (almost 4.0 GPA), lots of extracurrilars in law school and undergrad, diversity factor (bilingual and lived in europe for 18 years), gave up my citizenship for the internship with navy jag, photo on app looks great, maybe letter of intent was alright but could be better...Why are my law school grades holding me back so much? How much do grades matter?


You can reach out and ask for feedback if you weren't Pro rec'd. I did it, the feedback wasn't very detailed. They basically said, your application was competitive, apply again and emphasize this leadership position on your personal statement. Not much advice but, I did what they said and got rec'd the second time.

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zarzamora

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby zarzamora » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:10 pm

For those of you who have gone through the whole process, do you remember how long it took from the time you got the final selection letter from Millington to actually being able to commission? I got mine about a month ago and was told now we're just waiting on the "scroll." Any idea how much longer that should take?

Elle in Combat Boots

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby Elle in Combat Boots » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:25 pm

jaglaw23 wrote: You can reach out and ask for feedback if you weren't Pro rec'd.


Note the new policy as listed in the brand new FAQ section of the website ("contact us" page)... The recruiting & accessions office no longer provides individual feedback.

Elle in Combat Boots

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby Elle in Combat Boots » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:35 pm

zarzamora wrote:For those of you who have gone through the whole process, do you remember how long it took from the time you got the final selection letter from Millington to actually being able to commission? I got mine about a month ago and was told now we're just waiting on the "scroll." Any idea how much longer that should take?


The scroll process has been a beast this past year for a lot of folks, not just in the JAGC and not just within the Navy. If you were told that all you are waiting on is the scroll to come back, you are in good shape, but there is no estimate for when it will come back from Congress.

There's this saying we have in the military: "Hurry up and wait"...

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby fuzz » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:50 pm

lawschoolgirl12345 wrote:I didn't get in second time around. How much do grades matter? Because everything else seems to be great for me except law school grades. LSAT if great, lots of work experience (USAO, state court judge, navy jag summer internship), interview went well, undergrad grades are stellar (almost 4.0 GPA), lots of extracurrilars in law school and undergrad, diversity factor (bilingual and lived in europe for 18 years), gave up my citizenship for the internship with navy jag, photo on app looks great, maybe letter of intent was alright but could be better...Why are my law school grades holding me back so much? How much do grades matter?


I also just got dinged for the second time, and I have solid grades at a T10. I did the Navy JAG summer internship, have great work/service experience, lots of extracurricular leadership experience in law school, etc. I honestly don't know how I could be more competitive. My only thought is that it's just incredibly hard to get in as a 2L right now. Oh well, hopefully I'll get in next fall!

jaglaw23

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby jaglaw23 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:15 am

Elle in Combat Boots wrote:
jaglaw23 wrote: You can reach out and ask for feedback if you weren't Pro rec'd.


Note the new policy as listed in the brand new FAQ section of the website ("contact us" page)... The recruiting & accessions office no longer provides individual feedback.


Interesting, that's a very new change.

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Dawg57

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby Dawg57 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:08 am

Elle in Combat Boots wrote:
jaglaw23 wrote: You can reach out and ask for feedback if you weren't Pro rec'd.


Note the new policy as listed in the brand new FAQ section of the website ("contact us" page)... The recruiting & accessions office no longer provides individual feedback.


Hmmm, noted. Remembering that you said you aren’t directly involved in the selection process, how would you suggest we gather any information or feedback on how to improve to insure an improved chance of selection in the next board? Or is this move intentional to make it harder to improve? I get logistically why the policy of no individual feedback makes sense. But being that we are already in a position of limited ability to improve our app, it makes me wonder about what direction to take to brainstorm improvement.

Elle in Combat Boots

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Re: Military Law - Navy Jag Student Program

Postby Elle in Combat Boots » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:51 am

Dawg57 wrote: Hmmm, noted. Remembering that you said you aren’t directly involved in the selection process, how would you suggest we gather any information or feedback on how to improve to insure an improved chance of selection in the next board? Or is this move intentional to make it harder to improve? I get logistically why the policy of no individual feedback makes sense. But being that we are already in a position of limited ability to improve our app, it makes me wonder about what direction to take to brainstorm improvement.


From what I can gather, it's merely a time-constraint. I reviewed an intern's application last summer, and it was a good 45-60 minutes reviewing what he submitted and conducting a follow up discussion on what he could improve. If dozens (or more?) are calling to ask for that kind of individual attention, I imagine it would be debilitating.

There have been plenty of discussions in this thread and the Military Law thread on what makes for a competitive application--nothing else I can really add. If you were (are?) an intern/extern, you could reach back to your supervisor to ask for an application review. If an officer visits your school, bring your resume & motivational statement and ask for their feedback.

Keep applying. I know an officer who was selected on his 5th try, and a few prior interns that weren't selected until their 3rd or 4th applications.



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