Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass Forum
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Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
Or at least almost definitely a bar pass. Note, this is only true for states that don't have a minimum score for written parts, and only true for states with a 50% MBE. 40% or lower, MBE is still huge but it's harder to pass by just MBE.
Lets take Illinois for example. You need 264 points to pass and you can get them from MBE or written (which is scaled to match MBE scoring ranges). Here is what the percentiles looked like last july https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/Percent ... lentCharts
If you get a 150 on the MBE (all scores I'm talking about ITT are scaled, raw doesn't matter), then you only need a 114 (264 - 150) on the written. A 150 MBE isn't that hard, it's the 60th percentile and it only covers 6 subjects. For clean cut, standardized test taking naturals like TLSers this should be more than doable.
So how bad is a 114 written? Look at the chart I linked. It's LOWER than bottom 1%.
If you pull off a 160, 82%, you can get a 104 on written. I'm not sure they even give written scores that low.
Lets take Illinois for example. You need 264 points to pass and you can get them from MBE or written (which is scaled to match MBE scoring ranges). Here is what the percentiles looked like last july https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/Percent ... lentCharts
If you get a 150 on the MBE (all scores I'm talking about ITT are scaled, raw doesn't matter), then you only need a 114 (264 - 150) on the written. A 150 MBE isn't that hard, it's the 60th percentile and it only covers 6 subjects. For clean cut, standardized test taking naturals like TLSers this should be more than doable.
So how bad is a 114 written? Look at the chart I linked. It's LOWER than bottom 1%.
If you pull off a 160, 82%, you can get a 104 on written. I'm not sure they even give written scores that low.
- kalvano
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
Fucking Texas. 40% MBE, 40% Essay, 10% Texas Evidence and Procedure, 10% MBT.
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
Getting a 160 still probably means AUTOPASSkalvano wrote:Fucking Texas. 40% MBE, 40% Essay, 10% Texas Evidence and Procedure, 10% MBT.
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
This poast is 160Desert Fox wrote:Or at least almost definitely a bar pass. Note, this is only true for states that don't have a minimum score for written parts, and only true for states with a 50% MBE. 40% or lower, MBE is still huge but it's harder to pass by just MBE.
Lets take Illinois for example. You need 264 points to pass and you can get them from MBE or written (which is scaled to match MBE scoring ranges). Here is what the percentiles looked like last july https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/Percent ... lentCharts
If you get a 150 on the MBE (all scores I'm talking about ITT are scaled, raw doesn't matter), then you only need a 114 (264 - 150) on the written. A 150 MBE isn't that hard, it's the 60th percentile and it only covers 6 subjects. For clean cut, standardized test taking naturals like TLSers this should be more than doable.
So how bad is a 114 written? Look at the chart I linked. It's LOWER than bottom 1%.
If you pull off a 160, 82%, you can get a 104 on written. I'm not sure they even give written scores that low.
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
I want it to get more exposure so that people can check my conclusions.rad lulz wrote:This poast is 160Desert Fox wrote:Or at least almost definitely a bar pass. Note, this is only true for states that don't have a minimum score for written parts, and only true for states with a 50% MBE. 40% or lower, MBE is still huge but it's harder to pass by just MBE.
Lets take Illinois for example. You need 264 points to pass and you can get them from MBE or written (which is scaled to match MBE scoring ranges). Here is what the percentiles looked like last july https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/Percent ... lentCharts
If you get a 150 on the MBE (all scores I'm talking about ITT are scaled, raw doesn't matter), then you only need a 114 (264 - 150) on the written. A 150 MBE isn't that hard, it's the 60th percentile and it only covers 6 subjects. For clean cut, standardized test taking naturals like TLSers this should be more than doable.
So how bad is a 114 written? Look at the chart I linked. It's LOWER than bottom 1%.
If you pull off a 160, 82%, you can get a 104 on written. I'm not sure they even give written scores that low.
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- los blancos
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
Thanks for posting this. My state is 60 essay / 40 MBE so I'm not sure how much it helps in that regard, but this basically means I can easily do the Illinois bar whenever I want if I can cop dat 160 though it requires that you still technically 'pass' the written portion alone - not exactly sure what that means.
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
Probably means 132 on written. It might be easier to NOT bring in your old MBE score in that case.los blancos wrote:Thanks for posting this. My state is 60 essay / 40 MBE so I'm not sure how much it helps in that regard, but this basically means I can easily do the Illinois bar whenever I want if I can cop dat 160 though it requires that you still technically 'pass' the written portion alone - not exactly sure what that means.
- Bronte
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
I will take a look at the math when I get a chance.
- stratocophic
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
Looks right to me, GA's average MBE score for accredited non-John Marshall lawl students is about 150, and passing is a 270 combined MBE section and essay/MPT section.
They won't even grade your essays if you get less than a 115 on the MBE (guessing because the MBE is just scantron and if you're a moron they don't want to waste time reading your written drivel). If you hit just above the average on the MBE, you're basically home free because you can pass with a written score so bad that if it was your MBE score they wouldn't even bother grading it.
They won't even grade your essays if you get less than a 115 on the MBE (guessing because the MBE is just scantron and if you're a moron they don't want to waste time reading your written drivel). If you hit just above the average on the MBE, you're basically home free because you can pass with a written score so bad that if it was your MBE score they wouldn't even bother grading it.
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
Michigan used to not even grade your essays if your MBE was 150+. And there are rumors (which I don't really believe TBH) that other states don't read them either if you get a certain level. I think that's pretty good corroboration that 150 means you'll pass no matter what in a 50/50 state with a 150.
The only thing I'm unclear of is how the written part gets scaled. If you write pure fucking trash does it get scaled to a ~115 anyway, or can you theoretically get an 80.
The only thing I'm unclear of is how the written part gets scaled. If you write pure fucking trash does it get scaled to a ~115 anyway, or can you theoretically get an 80.
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
Cannot find the FL scales but those would be helpful
- los blancos
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
Awesome 'tarstratocophic wrote:Looks right to me, GA's average MBE score for accredited non-John Marshall lawl students is about 150, and passing is a 270 combined MBE section and essay/MPT section.
I literally cannot find jack shit about how my state's exam is graded. All I know is 40/60 and the passing score is 350. So a 160 MBE means you need a 190/300 on the essays. No idea what that means.
All in all this shit doesn't seem to difficult.
- stratocophic
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
Yeah I guess that's the $160,000 question. Bet if it's clear that the writer was just screwing around they wouldn't hesitate to give some BS score that's just a little too low to passDesert Fox wrote:Michigan used to not even grade your essays if your MBE was 150+. And there are rumors (which I don't really believe TBH) that other states don't read them either if you get a certain level. I think that's pretty good corroboration that 150 means you'll pass no matter what in a 50/50 state with a 150.
The only thing I'm unclear of is how the written part gets scaled. If you write pure fucking trash does it get scaled to a ~115 anyway, or can you theoretically get an 80.
tyty, wish I was a year older so I could've seen the reign of Cutler in person.los blancos wrote:Awesome 'tarstratocophic wrote:Looks right to me, GA's average MBE score for accredited non-John Marshall lawl students is about 150, and passing is a 270 combined MBE section and essay/MPT section.
I literally cannot find jack shit about how my state's exam is graded. All I know is 40/60 and the passing score is 350. So a 160 MBE means you need a 190/300 on the essays. No idea what that means.
All in all this shit doesn't seem to difficult.
I found all that kind of info on my state's actual bar exam site, they give average MBE scores along with the passing statistics and talk about the actual grading breakdown somewhere else but they don't really explain anything about the essays and how they're graded. Unfortunately, most state's bar sites appear to have been designed in 2001 and it takes forever to find anything useful
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
This is not true, at least in California.
I scored 150 on the MBE in California and did not pass the bar.
I had a consistent score on every PT/essay as well. I was close, but no luck.
I scored 150 on the MBE in California and did not pass the bar.
I had a consistent score on every PT/essay as well. I was close, but no luck.
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
daniclfrna wrote:This is not true, at least in California.
I scored 150 on the MBE in California and did not pass the bar.
I had a consistent score on every PT/essay as well. I was close, but no luck.
CA Bar weighs the MBE only 35%. So this definitely doesn't work in CA.Me wrote:40% or lower, MBE is still huge but it's harder to pass by just MBE.
Also CA Bar is just hard in general. You basically need a 144 MBE to stay on track to pass, any lower and you need to better on the essays to make up. So your 150, only added got you 21 points of extra room on your writing (out of 1400 passing average for writing).
Illinois for example, you are on track for passing with a 132, so the 150 gets you are ton of space on the writing because there is a bigger gap and it's 50% (compared to 35% CA).
Basically, CA weighs it less, and just has a higher standard.
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
What were your "consistent scores" on the essays/PTs? 60s?daniclfrna wrote:This is not true, at least in California.
I scored 150 on the MBE in California and did not pass the bar.
I had a consistent score on every PT/essay as well. I was close, but no luck.
- Bronte
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
The scoring of this thing is opaque as fuck, but yes I think what you are saying is right. In Illinois, a scaled score of 150 on the MBE is the 60th percentile, and a scaled score on the essays of 115 is the 1st percentile. This gives you a combined scaled score of 265, which is passing. It looks like getting a 150 on MBE is, very roughly, getting about 70% of the multiple choice right?
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
All of my PT/essay scores were 5 points ~60, so between 57-62.Foosters Galore wrote:What were your "consistent scores" on the essays/PTs? 60s?daniclfrna wrote:This is not true, at least in California.
I scored 150 on the MBE in California and did not pass the bar.
I had a consistent score on every PT/essay as well. I was close, but no luck.
- I.P. Daly
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
I believe a 150 MBE + passing bar also allows you to waive into all of the waive-inable jurisdictions (DC, ND, Minn).
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
At least that is what I think.Bronte wrote:The scoring of this thing is opaque as fuck, but yes I think what you are saying is right. In Illinois, a scaled score of 150 on the MBE is the 60th percentile, and a scaled score on the essays of 115 is the 1st percentile. This gives you a combined scaled score of 265, which is passing. It looks like getting a 150 on MBE is, very roughly, getting about 70% of the multiple choice right?
The only thing I'm curious about is whether <115 is even possible. Like you said, opaque as fuck.
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
Ok I found Feb. 2013 score percentiles, and there bottom 2% was at 110 written. So it seems like you can go below 115.Desert Fox wrote:At least that is what I think.Bronte wrote:The scoring of this thing is opaque as fuck, but yes I think what you are saying is right. In Illinois, a scaled score of 150 on the MBE is the 60th percentile, and a scaled score on the essays of 115 is the 1st percentile. This gives you a combined scaled score of 265, which is passing. It looks like getting a 150 on MBE is, very roughly, getting about 70% of the multiple choice right?
The only thing I'm curious about is whether <115 is even possible. Like you said, opaque as fuck.
So you cannot totally blow it off, but it's still extremely unimportant compared to MBE (if you are good at it).
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- Bikeflip
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
Playing around on that sheet, the 60th percentile, scaled, is a 150. For a raw score, the 60th percentile, approx, is 137(138)/200. To get 137(138), I just went across the stop sheet and determined where the 60th percentile lied. I've never taken a stats class, so I'm not sure if my math is actually sound. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's not. I just don't wanna study right now.Desert Fox wrote:Here is what the percentiles looked like last july https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/Percent ... lentCharts
Still, at 137(138), you're getting around 70% correct.
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
Desert Fox wrote:daniclfrna wrote:This is not true, at least in California.
I scored 150 on the MBE in California and did not pass the bar.
I had a consistent score on every PT/essay as well. I was close, but no luck.CA Bar weighs the MBE only 35%. So this definitely doesn't work in CA.Me wrote:40% or lower, MBE is still huge but it's harder to pass by just MBE.
Also CA Bar is just hard in general. You basically need a 144 MBE to stay on track to pass, any lower and you need to better on the essays to make up. So your 150, only added got you 21 points of extra room on your writing (out of 1400 passing average for writing).
Illinois for example, you are on track for passing with a 132, so the 150 gets you are ton of space on the writing because there is a bigger gap and it's 50% (compared to 35% CA).
Basically, CA weighs it less, and just has a higher standard.
Interesting! Thanks,
- Royal
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
Desert Fox wrote:Or at least almost definitely a bar pass. Note, this is only true for states that don't have a minimum score for written parts, and only true for states with a 50% MBE. 40% or lower, MBE is still huge but it's harder to pass by just MBE.
Lets take Illinois for example. You need 264 points to pass and you can get them from MBE or written (which is scaled to match MBE scoring ranges). Here is what the percentiles looked like last july https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/Percent ... lentCharts
If you get a 150 on the MBE (all scores I'm talking about ITT are scaled, raw doesn't matter), then you only need a 114 (264 - 150) on the written. A 150 MBE isn't that hard, it's the 60th percentile and it only covers 6 subjects. For clean cut, standardized test taking naturals like TLSers this should be more than doable.
So how bad is a 114 written? Look at the chart I linked. It's LOWER than bottom 1%.
If you pull off a 160, 82%, you can get a 104 on written. I'm not sure they even give written scores that low.
I thought I was doing well because I've been getting roughly 75% right on torts practice questions. Then I read that chart. Great.
- howell
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Re: Strong MBE = AUTO bar pass
Yeah, in GA, you can just focus on the MBE and do fine. 2 of the essay questions are the practical ones that take zero knowledge and are totally ace-able if you graduated from law school. The 4 subject matter essays are mostly made up by MBE subjects (last summer's exam was ALL MBE subjects). 80-90% of the points are purely MBE subjects. That percentage was closer to 95-100% last summer.stratocophic wrote:Looks right to me, GA's average MBE score for accredited non-John Marshall lawl students is about 150, and passing is a 270 combined MBE section and essay/MPT section.
They won't even grade your essays if you get less than a 115 on the MBE (guessing because the MBE is just scantron and if you're a moron they don't want to waste time reading your written drivel). If you hit just above the average on the MBE, you're basically home free because you can pass with a written score so bad that if it was your MBE score they wouldn't even bother grading it.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
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