UC Berkeley Class of 2014 Forum

[Knock]

Hmm, okay thanks. I think i'm going to apply for matching once i'm done with finals week.

You'd rather go to Berkeley?

Not sure yet, but I think I want the option at least.

Berkeley has already started giving out matching schollys. It took them less than a month to get back to me. If you are leaning Chicago I think you should definitely visit. I visited Chicago really early in the cycle and after visiting other schools Ive really started to sour on UChi. At one point, I was considering taking Chicago over Harvard at the same price. Now, as Ive seen other schools, I wouldnt even take Chicago over the Darrow.

Wow, that's extremely surprising too me, i remember how big on Chi you were. What made you sour on them?

[rundoxierun]

Wow, that's extremely surprising too me, i remember how big on Chi you were. What made you sour on them?

I entered the law school search with the idea that law school, no matter where I went, was going to be filled with lots of awkward or super serious people. Basically, I thought since it was "professional" school I would be an idiot to really think the environments would vary a whole lot. The first school I visited(Columbia), unofficially, seemed to fit the image that I expected. So when I visited Chicago and didnt really feel great about the environment I didnt really think much of it. UChicago stayed at the top of my list mainly because I was in love with the city and I have tons of friends in the area.

Now, as I have communicated with more students from other schools, I think that environment should be a big factor in choosing a school. A wise 1L told me that no matter where you go you are going to have tons of work/stress and little free time(at least as a 1L) so you might as well go through it at a place where you enjoy the people. I think that is completely true. Im not dissing UChicago at all, it definitely seemed like a place that was a bit more "mature" than other schools and gave me the vibe that it had less potential to turn kind of high schoolesque. If you want that environment then UChicago may be best. For me though, I just dont think it's as good a fit as my other options.

[unc0mm0n1]

Wow, that's extremely surprising too me, i remember how big on Chi you were. What made you sour on them?

I entered the law school search with the idea that law school, no matter where I went, was going to be filled with lots of awkward or super serious people. Basically, I thought since it was "professional" school I would be an idiot to really think the environments would vary a whole lot. The first school I visited(Columbia), unofficially, seemed to fit the image that I expected. So when I visited Chicago and didnt really feel great about the environment I didnt really think much of it. UChicago stayed at the top of my list mainly because I was in love with the city and I have tons of friends in the area.

Now, as I have communicated with more students from other schools, I think that environment should be a big factor in choosing a school. A wise 1L told me that no matter where you go you are going to have tons of work/stress and little free time(at least as a 1L) so you might as well go through it at a place where you enjoy the people. I think that is completely true. Im not dissing UChicago at all, it definitely seemed like a place that was a bit more "mature" than other schools and gave me the vibe that it had less potential to turn kind of high schoolesque. If you want that environment then UChicago may be best. For me though, I just dont think it's as good a fit as my other options.

+1

[CrashingTheGate]

Hey All,

Just got back from being abroad and had a voicemail and emails admitting me to Berkeley (yay!). I am in New York City and wont be able to go to the ASW. Does anyone know of any alumni sponsored events on the East Coast in NYC, Philly or the like? I'd love to learn more about the school, but Cali is a long way to travel.

Thanks!

[pkt63]

Hey All,

Just got back from being abroad and had a voicemail and emails admitting me to Berkeley (yay!). I am in New York City and wont be able to go to the ASW. Does anyone know of any alumni sponsored events on the East Coast in NYC, Philly or the like? I'd love to learn more about the school, but Cali is a long way to travel.

Thanks!

Wow, you have good timing! I (and I presume everyone else) just got an email about receptions. There is one in DC and one in NY:

I write to invite you to special receptions for alumni and newly admitted students to Berkeley Law School. This year we will host receptions in Washington D.C., New York City, Los Angeles, and San Francisco. Please see the details below:


Washington, D.C.
Tuesday, April 19, 6:00 to 8:00 p.m.
Hosted by Ruth Greenspan Bell ?67 at her home (the address will be sent in the confirmation email after you RSVP)
Ms. Bell is Director of U.S. Climate Policy and Senior Fellow at World Resources Institute


New York City
Thursday, April 21, 6:00 to 8:00 p.m.
at Sidley Austin
787 7th Avenue between 51st and 52nd Streets
New York, NY
Hosted by Benson Cohen '04


Los Angeles
Tuesday, June 7, 6:00 to 8:00 p.m.
at WilmerHale
350 South Grand Avenue, Suite 2100
Hosted by Randall Lee '89


San Francisco
Friday, July 29, 6:00 to 8:00 p.m.
Location and host TBA (details will be emailed later this spring and posted on the Admitted Students Website)


This will be a great networking opportunity to meet some of your fellow new admits as well as some of our graduates who work and live in your area. Dean of Admissions, Edward Tom, will also be available to answer questions. Hors d'oeuvre and beverages will be provided, attire is business casual, and you are welcome to bring a friend.

You may respond to this invitation via email at rsvp@law.berkeley.edu or by phone to (510) 643-6673 preferably at least one week in advance of the reception you wish to attend. Also, be sure to bring your photo ID as it may be required by building or office security personnel.

[GinaTheresa]

9th????

[powerlawyer06]

9th????

I know. I am freaking out. Is it still worth it to go here over Columbia and Chicago? Somebody talk me off the ledge.

[pkt63]

oy. I don't know...

It looks like GPA and LSATs are a little on the low side, which I guess we maybe all knew. It is still the most selective school outside of Y and S (yes more selective than H). The employment data looks kind of low, too. The GPA and LSAT...I don't know, I kind of trust B's admissions committee and philosophy on being holistic (and hopefully then creating people that do make an impact on the field). The employment data is obviously a concern. Although we all know that the employment reports are messed up anyway, so maybe we should just ignore that. Remembering that one post on Nuts & Boalts where they talk about CDO actually following up with grads and not just assuming, per se, that if they haven't heard from a grad that they are gainfully employed...maybe B is just a victim of its own values? Trying to look on the bright side here. I will probably still go to B no matter what, being likely to stay on the west coast...

[CrashingTheGate]

Hey All,

Just got back from being abroad and had a voicemail and emails admitting me to Berkeley (yay!). I am in New York City and wont be able to go to the ASW. Does anyone know of any alumni sponsored events on the East Coast in NYC, Philly or the like? I'd love to learn more about the school, but Cali is a long way to travel.

Thanks!

Wow, you have good timing! I (and I presume everyone else) just got an email about receptions. There is one in DC and one in NY:

I write to invite you to special receptions for alumni and newly admitted students to Berkeley Law School. This year we will host receptions in Washington D.C., New York City, Los Angeles, and San Francisco. Please see the details below:


Washington, D.C.
Tuesday, April 19, 6:00 to 8:00 p.m.
Hosted by Ruth Greenspan Bell ?67 at her home (the address will be sent in the confirmation email after you RSVP)
Ms. Bell is Director of U.S. Climate Policy and Senior Fellow at World Resources Institute


New York City
Thursday, April 21, 6:00 to 8:00 p.m.
at Sidley Austin
787 7th Avenue between 51st and 52nd Streets
New York, NY
Hosted by Benson Cohen '04


Los Angeles
Tuesday, June 7, 6:00 to 8:00 p.m.
at WilmerHale
350 South Grand Avenue, Suite 2100
Hosted by Randall Lee '89


San Francisco
Friday, July 29, 6:00 to 8:00 p.m.
Location and host TBA (details will be emailed later this spring and posted on the Admitted Students Website)


This will be a great networking opportunity to meet some of your fellow new admits as well as some of our graduates who work and live in your area. Dean of Admissions, Edward Tom, will also be available to answer questions. Hors d'oeuvre and beverages will be provided, attire is business casual, and you are welcome to bring a friend.

You may respond to this invitation via email at rsvp@law.berkeley.edu or by phone to (510) 643-6673 preferably at least one week in advance of the reception you wish to attend. Also, be sure to bring your photo ID as it may be required by building or office security personnel.

Ha. Yeah - Thanks! I guess my question was an hour or so premature.

[r6_philly]

oy. I don't know...

It looks like GPA and LSATs are a little on the low side, which I guess we maybe all knew. It is still the most selective school outside of Y and S (yes more selective than H). The employment data looks kind of low, too. The GPA and LSAT...I don't know, I kind of trust B's admissions committee and philosophy on being holistic (and hopefully then creating people that do make an impact on the field). The employment data is obviously a concern. Although we all know that the employment reports are messed up anyway, so maybe we should just ignore that. Remembering that one post on Nuts & Boalts where they talk about CDO actually following up with grads and not just assuming, per se, that if they haven't heard from a grad that they are gainfully employed...maybe B is just a victim of its own values? Trying to look on the bright side here. I will probably still go to B no matter what, being likely to stay on the west coast...

The reason for the higher selectivity may be because many people take a shot at Berkeley because it is their only realistic chance at a T10, or even T14 maybe. I would want to see how selective it is among T14 cross admits/applicants.

[paisaaa]

9th????

I know. I am freaking out. Is it still worth it to go here over Columbia and Chicago? Somebody talk me off the ledge.

Come off the ledge. Come to Berkeley. It's T14 and the weather's warm.

[pixytree]

9th????

I know. I am freaking out. Is it still worth it to go here over Columbia and Chicago? Somebody talk me off the ledge.

Come off the ledge. Come to Berkeley. It's T14 and the weather's warm.

+1 you convinced me!

[St.Remy]

9th????

I know. I am freaking out. Is it still worth it to go here over Columbia and Chicago? Somebody talk me off the ledge.

Come off the ledge. Come to Berkeley. It's T14 and the weather's warm.

Just like UT

[pkt63]

oy. I don't know...

It looks like GPA and LSATs are a little on the low side, which I guess we maybe all knew. It is still the most selective school outside of Y and S (yes more selective than H). The employment data looks kind of low, too. The GPA and LSAT...I don't know, I kind of trust B's admissions committee and philosophy on being holistic (and hopefully then creating people that do make an impact on the field). The employment data is obviously a concern. Although we all know that the employment reports are messed up anyway, so maybe we should just ignore that. Remembering that one post on Nuts & Boalts where they talk about CDO actually following up with grads and not just assuming, per se, that if they haven't heard from a grad that they are gainfully employed...maybe B is just a victim of its own values? Trying to look on the bright side here. I will probably still go to B no matter what, being likely to stay on the west coast...

The reason for the higher selectivity may be because many people take a shot at Berkeley because it is their only realistic chance at a T10, or even T14 maybe. I would want to see how selective it is among T14 cross admits/applicants.

I agree on seeing the cross-admit data. But if this was the case, you'd think it would be self-correcting *real* fast. A school cannot simultaneously have the reputation of being "the one T14 you might actually have a chance at" and actually being much more selective than most of the rest. After a year or two of that, people would figure out that B is not necessarily the place where they can get a hail Mary T14 acceptance.

I was just trying to find historical USNWR rankings. I thought I read something in the N&B archives about it being ranked like #11 or something back in like 2004 or 2005 when the author was a 1L. If so, there as been quite a bit of movement over the years, and like I was saying, I'm really interested in the trends reflected there (regardless of what people think of the given year's ranking and accuracies, etc.).

[bilbobaggins]

Peoples, the rankings are BS to a large extent. This yearly movement of a few rankings one way or another is how USNews sells magazines and gets pageviews. Was Michigan worse two years ago when it was ranked 9th and Boalt was ranked 6th? Are they better now? What could have changed substantively in those two years? Nothing has changed. If anything, Boalt's continued holistic admissions process makes the LSAT average a little low. Who cares? Employers don't look at these changes in the rankings with much weight.

[r6_philly]

I agree on seeing the cross-admit data. But if this was the case, you'd think it would be self-correcting *real* fast. A school cannot simultaneously have the reputation of being "the one T14 you might actually have a chance at" and actually being much more selective than most of the rest. After a year or two of that, people would figure out that B is not necessarily the place where they can get a hail Mary T14 acceptance.

I was just trying to find historical USNWR rankings. I thought I read something in the N&B archives about it being ranked like #11 or something back in like 2004 or 2005 when the author was a 1L. If so, there as been quite a bit of movement over the years, and like I was saying, I'm really interested in the trends reflected there (regardless of what people think of the given year's ranking and accuracies, etc.).

This is not necessarily true. They do seriously consider even people without T14 numbers. So the selectivity is up simply because their draw a larger pool of applicants. They draw similar apps as much larger classes but admit less people, IIRC. There is no self-selection as you described because people actually get in from the pool of lower numerical quality applicants.

Edited for clarity.

[pkt63]

Peoples, the rankings are BS to a large extent. This yearly movement of a few rankings one way or another is how USNews sells magazines and gets pageviews. Was Michigan worse two years ago when it was ranked 9th and Boalt was ranked 6th? Are they better now? What could have changed substantively in those two years? Nothing has changed. If anything, Boalt's continued holistic admissions process makes the LSAT average a little low. Who cares? Employers don't look at these changes in the rankings with much weight.

Right, but it sort of reminds me of an anecdote from a Harvard 1L...a professor said (something to the effect of), "Now you've all been through a semester of law school and you know there is nothing magical about a Harvard law degree. Luckily for you, the rest of the world is still largely under that delusion." It may be meaningless...but it can still matter.

It does look like the absolute value of the change was rather negligible. I don't want to give undue credence to USNWR, but I think those of us commenting on this are particularly sensitive given that we are currently making a decision that you have already made. It can be easy to knock a person off balance if they are already facing a tough decision. It can be hard to ignore this info...particularly because credible, independent evidence for decision-making seems to be hard to find.

[bilbobaggins]

Peoples, the rankings are BS to a large extent. This yearly movement of a few rankings one way or another is how USNews sells magazines and gets pageviews. Was Michigan worse two years ago when it was ranked 9th and Boalt was ranked 6th? Are they better now? What could have changed substantively in those two years? Nothing has changed. If anything, Boalt's continued holistic admissions process makes the LSAT average a little low. Who cares? Employers don't look at these changes in the rankings with much weight.

Right, but it sort of reminds me of an anecdote from a Harvard 1L...a professor said (something to the effect of), "Now you've all been through a semester of law school and you know there is nothing magical about a Harvard law degree. Luckily for you, the rest of the world is still largely under that delusion." It may be meaningless...but it can still matter.

It does look like the absolute value of the change was rather negligible. I don't want to give undue credence to USNWR, but I think those of us commenting on this are particularly sensitive given that we are currently making a decision that you have already made. It can be easy to knock a person off balance if they are already facing a tough decision. It can be hard to ignore this info...particularly because credible, independent evidence for decision-making seems to be hard to find.

The analogy is flawed in that no one looks at the rankings beyond some very general measures. All evidence suggests that employers are not concerned with individual numbers and will not begin favoring Michigan students over Boalt students this year when they were not last year.

I understand that it makes you concerned, but you shouldn't be. They are just as likely to swing the other way next year. Would you regret your decision if Boalt was back at 7 and Penn or Michigan were at 9? It wouldn't be intelligent if you did.

[IzziesGal]

Peoples, the rankings are BS to a large extent. This yearly movement of a few rankings one way or another is how USNews sells magazines and gets pageviews. Was Michigan worse two years ago when it was ranked 9th and Boalt was ranked 6th? Are they better now? What could have changed substantively in those two years? Nothing has changed. If anything, Boalt's continued holistic admissions process makes the LSAT average a little low. Who cares? Employers don't look at these changes in the rankings with much weight.

Right, but it sort of reminds me of an anecdote from a Harvard 1L...a professor said (something to the effect of), "Now you've all been through a semester of law school and you know there is nothing magical about a Harvard law degree. Luckily for you, the rest of the world is still largely under that delusion." It may be meaningless...but it can still matter.

It does look like the absolute value of the change was rather negligible. I don't want to give undue credence to USNWR, but I think those of us commenting on this are particularly sensitive given that we are currently making a decision that you have already made. It can be easy to knock a person off balance if they are already facing a tough decision. It can be hard to ignore this info...particularly because credible, independent evidence for decision-making seems to be hard to find.

I recognize you are in a very different position than 2Ls and 3Ls - we've chosen schools, we have jobs, etc. In short, we aren't worried - and you are. And you should be. You're making a HUGE decision and you shouldn't take it lightly. I just wanted to echo the sentiments that USNWR rankings do NOT matter beyond this stage in your life. They seem important now (because to a large extent, they are - it's how a lot of people choose schools), but after this - they don't mean anything. I promise you that you will never talk about USNWR rankings once you're a 1L. And when you're a 2L, you won't even know they came out (I didn't). I have had convos with a lot of 2Ls lately about how this board exaggerates our employment prospects. People who wanted firm jobs, got them. I have mostly Ps on my transcript, and I got a firm job. I know others with mostly Ps who got them as well. Employers know that Berkeley (and Mich...and UVA....and NYU....etc.) are all great schools. They don't scrutinize how far they fell down the rankings etc.

Anecdote: When I applied to Berkeley, I was numbers obsessed. We had just gotten bumped up to 6. An attorney at my biglaw firm was so excited I got in. I told him we were #6 now. He was in shock. "Really? I haven't paid attention to those numbers in years. When I went there, I think we were # 13 or something." And he had only been practicing for under ten years or so.

I know you guys can't ignore the rankings (it's hard not to!), but try not to let them dictate where you go. Talk to alums. Talk to 2Ls about jobs. We just went through it and are starting work soon. Talk to 1Ls who just went through their summer searches. We are all happy to share our experiences.

[aesis]

I just want to thank you guys for reaching out and doing some serious damage control. Way to rep Boalt day in and day out.

[bilbobaggins]

I just want to thank you guys for reaching out and doing some serious damage control. Way to rep Boalt day in and day out.

No probs. It's the only reason I hang around TLS these days.

[pkt63]

I just want to thank you guys for reaching out and doing some serious damage control. Way to rep Boalt day in and day out.

+1.

Can't wait to start school and talk to others face to face.

[WonkyPanda]

Without adding too much fuel to this fire, I can say that I am proud that Berkeley stayed true to itself as one of the premiere schools that still work on a true holistic system. As schools continue to get so numbers hungry that they pass on excellent, sub-par numbered students, Berkeley still stuck with it's mantra and still looked past these numbers. I won't lie and say that I wasn't disappointed for a few minutes. After it all settled though, I realized just how trivial these rankings can be (especially in the T10) and still felt honored to be able to say that I can attend Berkeley Law. Ok, I'll stop now.

[boalt2l]

Even though I am one of the critiics of Boalt (although actually just more trying to make people realize that even a T10 school comes with a pretty solid chance of enemployment), the rankings are bullsh*t.

Our career office just did not cheat as well as the other career offices at gaming our employment stats. As you see, our employment stands at 95%, this is bs. But the other top 14 schools http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=150329, just bs'ed their way better than we did. Look at how YHS have lower employment rates than most of the Top14. The truth is most of these lower Top15 schools have employment rates around I'd guess 80%.

Do people really believe Virginia is number two in employment? Basically schools offer absolute BS bridge grants (you get minimal money for 3 months of public service and voila you are USNews employed). So bottom line: Boalt did not game the rankings as well as other schools, if they chose to, they could have easily changed some of those figures, and based on the slide I'm guessing they'll do a better job gaming it next year.

To simplify: Boalt did not give out as many fake jobs as other schools. If you want to go to a school with plentiful fake jobs, this is not your destination.

[unc0mm0n1]

I love the Boalt thread and the Boalt people the more I learn about this school the more I love it. Can't wait for ASW.