Advice for Transferring to Another Law School Forum

[ilovesf]

is there any way we can get some sort of spreadsheet/list going about the t14 and which schools allow transfers to write on to law review and join oci?

[Lasers]

i have a question about the implications of not transferring.

hypothetically, say i'm ranked 40/400 at my school and 10 students above me transfer while i stay. since new incoming transfers aren't calculated into the rankings until at least after they get grades back from the first semester of 2L, does that mean for the purposes of OCI, i would be ranked 30/400?

No. Think of it as a snapshot in time, taken the moment grades are calculated. Would it make sense to tell employers that you were #1 in the class if the 39 above you transferred out? Of course not. You played a game with 400 contestants, and you finished 40th out of the 400. The mere fact that some of the contestants are no longer playing the game doesn't mean you get to change the results from when they were playing.

But if enough kids transfer out, there is less competition for those top spots, since it won't just immediately go to the usual suspects at the very top of the class. So it can give you some benefit if you are within striking distance, but doesn't give you the right to just change what your rank was.

thanks!

ok, so let me see if i got this right:

assume i am 40/400 and 10 students above me transfer. while my rank would rightfully still stay 40/400, for the purposes of OCI, would it be accurate to say that only 30 students that are actually competing against me for jobs at my OCI will be able to say they are ranked above me? so even though my rank doesn't change, 10 top students leaving would in effect weaken the playing field considering the ~10 transfers that take their place wouldn't be considered above me.

[jarofsoup]

is there any way we can get some sort of spreadsheet/list going about the t14 and which schools allow transfers to write on to law review and join oci?

I think they all let you write on and partake in OCI. However, the key is to get admitted in time to make the bids and write on.

[haranv]

T4 to MVP. Here are my stats and you tell me if you think you have a shot:

UGPA: 3.0 (private liberal arts college)
LSAT: 153 (No joke)
LSGPA: 3.94
Class Rank: 3/240

Don't let anyone tell you something is not possible. Most of the time they can't believe they have the power to overcome themselves.

What is mvp?

U got basically the same stats as me, but I currently have a 3.8 LSGPA and ranked in the top 2% .

[Coolgrnmen]

is there any way we can get some sort of spreadsheet/list going about the t14 and which schools allow transfers to write on to law review and join oci?

I think they all let you write on and partake in OCI. However, the key is to get admitted in time to make the bids and write on.

False on both accounts...For example, Cornell and Fordham don't let you participate in OCI. BU didn't have a write-on competition for transfers until this last admissions cycle (unless I'm mistaken).

[susancollins]

Transferring to a different law school is like an intense breakup: you’ve committed endless hours, the 1L path has been painful and confusing, you’re not sure you really want to break it off and it’s not as easy as saying goodbye. While breaking up is never easy, sometimes ditching your law school after 1L year is the best move for you. But as a transfer hopeful, you’ll be applying to law school all over again, which means preparation, research, personal statements, recommendations, and numbers. Get ready for the transfer process with these tips:

Should You Transfer?

The decision to transfer is a personal one and may be based on a number of factors: better career prospects, prestige, location, tuition cost, family and other personal reasons. If you think that another school will be a better fit for you, you should seriously consider your options and weigh them against potential disadvantages of transferring.

What Kind of Disadvantages?

You’ve spent your 1L year building your own brand at your law school through your grades, relationships with professors, networking with fellow law students, contacts with alumni, and involvement in clubs and activities. As a transfer, you’ll start with a clean slate. Say goodbye to the stellar grades you toiled for during 1L year, the connections you’ve developed (of course, you can continue your relationships with professors, students, and alumni, but you’ll probably be more likely to obtain job and research opportunities from connections at your new school), and the comfort of knowing the ropes. You’ll have to prove yourself again: reestablishing your GPA and rank, building connections, and getting involved in a world where everyone has already connected and bonded during 1L year. You also may have to relocate, find new housing, and figure out financial aid at your new school. Don’t let the challenges dissuade you, though—look at it as an opportunity to add even more connections and experiences to your professional arsenal.

Now that the Negatives Are Out of the Way, How May Transferring Help Me?

If you feel off-course, transferring is a great way to navigate your legal career toward your goals. For students who didn’t have impressive LSATs or undergrad GPAs, but rocked the curve during 1L year, transferring provides an opportunity to move to a higher-ranked school. For those who used 1L year to figure out in which area of law they want to practice, transferring is the perfect opportunity to move to a school that specializes in that area. And for those with personal reasons (like relocation) or who just don’t like their law schools, transferring is a great option.

Is it Difficult to Transfer?

Transferring is competitive—stellar 1L grades are particularly important. Below is a glimpse at what some of the top law schools generally look for in transfer applicants:

•Columbia Law: top 5-10% of law school class
•Berkeley Law: top 3-5% of law school class
•Michigan Law: top 10% of law school class
•Duke Law: Top quarter of law school class
•Cornell Law: top 10% of law school class
•Georgetown Law: top 15% of law school class

What do I need to do to Transfer?

Schools may request some or all of the following along with any institution-specific requirements:

•Completed application form
•Letter(s) of recommendation (schools will likely want a recommendation from a current law school professor)
•Certification from your current law school
•Certification from your undergraduate school
•Transcript of your law school grades
•Law school class rank
•Transcript of your undergraduate grades
•LSDAS report with LSAT score
•Personal statement
•Application fee

When Should I look Into Transferring?

You should start thinking about transferring during your first semester of law school (just thinking) because your 1L grades are critical for your transfer application. Once you begin second semester of 1L year, you should begin selecting potential transfer options. Some law schools, like Georgetown and University of Chicago, offer early admission for transfers based on first-semester 1L grades. If you plan to apply for early admission, you have to be on top of your applications early in your second semester and submit them around the middle of your second semester.

But even if you’re applying for regular admission at the end of your 1L year, you should start preparing during second semester. You’ll need to sit down with a professor and ask for a letter of recommendation, gather materials from your law school and undergrad, and work on a personal statement. Plus, it’s a good idea to submit your application early for schools with rolling admission—receiving an earlier decision will help you better prepare for Fall interviewing and journal competitions.

Where Should I Apply?

Consider your reasons for transferring and which schools are the best fit for your professional goals. Also, research which schools are the most transfer-friendly in terms of transfer class size, transfer integration, Fall OCI interviewing for transfers, and transfer journal participation.

[CAsun83]

Would an AA applicant who had a very poor first semester, but made up for it second semester by getting straight A's and/or A-'s, have a shot at T14 if they had an amazing PS/softs? I haven't found ANY information regarding this scenario online.

[Mce252]

Would an AA applicant who had a very poor first semester, but made up for it second semester by getting straight A's and/or A-'s, have a shot at T14 if they had an amazing PS/softs? I haven't found ANY information regarding this scenario online.

Not enough information for any accurate response. What's your individual and school rank?

[CAsun83]

Would an AA applicant who had a very poor first semester, but made up for it second semester by getting straight A's and/or A-'s, have a shot at T14 if they had an amazing PS/softs? I haven't found ANY information regarding this scenario online.

Not enough information for any accurate response. What's your individual and school rank?

My school is T1 (35-45 range). My rank still sucks because of my first semester

[ilovesf]

Would an AA applicant who had a very poor first semester, but made up for it second semester by getting straight A's and/or A-'s, have a shot at T14 if they had an amazing PS/softs? I haven't found ANY information regarding this scenario online.

Not enough information for any accurate response. What's your individual and school rank?

My school is T1 (35-45 range). My rank still sucks because of my first semester

What is sucks? Bottom 50%? Bottom 25%?

[CAsun83]

Would an AA applicant who had a very poor first semester, but made up for it second semester by getting straight A's and/or A-'s, have a shot at T14 if they had an amazing PS/softs? I haven't found ANY information regarding this scenario online.

Not enough information for any accurate response. What's your individual and school rank?

My school is T1 (35-45 range). My rank still sucks because of my first semester

What is sucks? Bottom 50%? Bottom 25%?

I'm right about the 30-40% mark in rank, after being in the gutter first semester, but much of that was due to personal reasons and difficulty adjusting to law school.

[Mce252]

I'm right about the 30-40% mark in rank, after being in the gutter first semester, but much of that was due to personal reasons and difficulty adjusting to law school.

Top 30 - 40% or bottom 30 - 40%?

If you're in the bottom 30 percent of your class, you can do the math. An absolutely perfect semester, which is highly unlikely, would generate a 4.33, depending on how your school grades. If you average that GPA with your current GPA, that's your best possible scenario. And I wouldn't be that optimistic.

From everything I've ever read, softs can only help you to a very minimal extent in transfer admissions. If you aren't in the top 15 percent of your class, I don't think you have a very realistic shot.

[CAsun83]

I'm right about the 30-40% mark in rank, after being in the gutter first semester, but much of that was due to personal reasons and difficulty adjusting to law school.

Top 30 - 40% or bottom 30 - 40%?

If you're in the bottom 30 percent of your class, you can do the math. An absolutely perfect semester, which is highly unlikely, would generate a 4.33, depending on how your school grades. If you average that GPA with your current GPA, that's your best possible scenario. And I wouldn't be that optimistic.

From everything I've ever read, softs can only help you to a very minimal extent in transfer admissions. If you aren't in the top 15 percent of your class, I don't think you have a very realistic shot.

Many of the T14 schools explicitly say that grades aren't the end-all-be-all. If I can show that I'm a promising candidate by demonstrating that after a crummy first semester, I was able to rebound as strongly as I did, wouldn't that reflect greater potential to adcomms?

What you're saying is that my GPA would be looked at objectively. But I don't see how an adcomm can see the kind of improvement I was able to pull off and still look at the grade objectively. I got into my law school with UGPA and LSAT scores well below it's 25% mark, so I've always been a proponent that softs matter more than people (edit) want to admit because they are the CLEAR minority.

[Mce252]

I'm right about the 30-40% mark in rank, after being in the gutter first semester, but much of that was due to personal reasons and difficulty adjusting to law school.

Top 30 - 40% or bottom 30 - 40%?

If you're in the bottom 30 percent of your class, you can do the math. An absolutely perfect semester, which is highly unlikely, would generate a 4.33, depending on how your school grades. If you average that GPA with your current GPA, that's your best possible scenario. And I wouldn't be that optimistic.

From everything I've ever read, softs can only help you to a very minimal extent in transfer admissions. If you aren't in the top 15 percent of your class, I don't think you have a very realistic shot.

Many of the T14 schools explicitly say that grades aren't the end-all-be-all. If I can show that I'm a promising candidate by demonstrating that after a crummy first semester, I was able to rebound as strongly as I did, wouldn't that reflect greater potential to adcomms?

What you're saying is that my GPA would be looked at objectively. But I don't see how an adcomm can see the kind of improvement I was able to pull off and still look at the grade objectively. I got into my law school with UGPA and LSAT scores well below it's 25% mark, so I've always been a proponent that softs matter more than people (edit) want to admit because they are the CLEAR minority.

If you're dead set on spending the money to apply, go for it. However, schools which accept transfer students do so because they performed extremely well in their first year of law school, meaning both semesters. It matters less that you showed potential in one of the semesters. They want to see that you are consistently a top student.

Many schools in the t14 even give an explicit ranking standard. The best idea is to go study for your finals and plan when it's not a hypothetical.

[TheZoid]

I'm right about the 30-40% mark in rank, after being in the gutter first semester, but much of that was due to personal reasons and difficulty adjusting to law school.

Top 30 - 40% or bottom 30 - 40%?

If you're in the bottom 30 percent of your class, you can do the math. An absolutely perfect semester, which is highly unlikely, would generate a 4.33, depending on how your school grades. If you average that GPA with your current GPA, that's your best possible scenario. And I wouldn't be that optimistic.

From everything I've ever read, softs can only help you to a very minimal extent in transfer admissions. If you aren't in the top 15 percent of your class, I don't think you have a very realistic shot.

Many of the T14 schools explicitly say that grades aren't the end-all-be-all. If I can show that I'm a promising candidate by demonstrating that after a crummy first semester, I was able to rebound as strongly as I did, wouldn't that reflect greater potential to adcomms?

What you're saying is that my GPA would be looked at objectively. But I don't see how an adcomm can see the kind of improvement I was able to pull off and still look at the grade objectively. I got into my law school with UGPA and LSAT scores well below it's 25% mark, so I've always been a proponent that softs matter more than people (edit) want to admit because they are the CLEAR minority.

Lol, and you believe them? That's your first mistake. The second bolded is, I'm guessing, because you're a URM? I'm failing to see your point.

[CAsun83]

I'm right about the 30-40% mark in rank, after being in the gutter first semester, but much of that was due to personal reasons and difficulty adjusting to law school.

Top 30 - 40% or bottom 30 - 40%?

If you're in the bottom 30 percent of your class, you can do the math. An absolutely perfect semester, which is highly unlikely, would generate a 4.33, depending on how your school grades. If you average that GPA with your current GPA, that's your best possible scenario. And I wouldn't be that optimistic.

From everything I've ever read, softs can only help you to a very minimal extent in transfer admissions. If you aren't in the top 15 percent of your class, I don't think you have a very realistic shot.

Many of the T14 schools explicitly say that grades aren't the end-all-be-all. If I can show that I'm a promising candidate by demonstrating that after a crummy first semester, I was able to rebound as strongly as I did, wouldn't that reflect greater potential to adcomms?

What you're saying is that my GPA would be looked at objectively. But I don't see how an adcomm can see the kind of improvement I was able to pull off and still look at the grade objectively. I got into my law school with UGPA and LSAT scores well below it's 25% mark, so I've always been a proponent that softs matter more than people (edit) want to admit because they are the CLEAR minority.

Lol, and you believe them? That's your first mistake. The second bolded is, I'm guessing, because you're a URM? I'm failing to see your point.

URM has nothing to do with it. I've done my research I know all about the layer of AA boost. I'm just saying that I don't believe they look at transfer students solely on grades. You are overestimating the extent in which law schools empty our pockets in debt. Yes it's much worse than we're normally accustomed to but I feel the legal profession is on the right path to recovery (sorry to offend any jobless people suffering from debt). With that said, I think just as admissions, they look at the overall person because that person will be representing the school after they graduate. I think adcomms have learned by now that doing exceptionally well in law school does not always produce a promising lawyer. Although grades do play a huge part, I think adcomms do take the time and effort to read many of these "bizarre" applications because they know what traits translate to success. Keep in mind people, these guys are adcomms at T14 schools lol....as smart as any of you think you are, they're probably smarter. (sorry to offend anyone who really takes pride in their intelligence, but I'm just saying what I feel is true).

[Mce252]

URM has nothing to do with it. I've done my research I know all about the layer of AA boost. I'm just saying that I don't believe they look at transfer students solely on grades. You are overestimating the extent in which law schools empty our pockets in debt. Yes it's much worse than we're normally accustomed to but I feel the legal profession is on the right path to recovery (sorry to offend any jobless people suffering from debt). With that said, I think just as admissions, they look at the overall person because that person will be representing the school after they graduate. I think adcomms have learned by now that doing exceptionally well in law school does not always produce a promising lawyer. Although grades do play a huge part, I think adcomms do take the time and effort to read many of these "bizarre" applications because they know what traits translate to success. Keep in mind people, these guys are adcomms at T14 schools lol....as smart as any of you think you are, they're probably smarter. (sorry to offend anyone who really takes pride in their intelligence, but I'm just saying what I feel is true).

Yes, the traits that translate to success are really high grades which come from really hard work and a little bit of skill on exams. Sure the schools want diversity, but the applicants with really high grades in both semesters will be a pretty diverse group to choose from already.

[CAsun83]

URM has nothing to do with it. I've done my research I know all about the layer of AA boost. I'm just saying that I don't believe they look at transfer students solely on grades. You are overestimating the extent in which law schools empty our pockets in debt. Yes it's much worse than we're normally accustomed to but I feel the legal profession is on the right path to recovery (sorry to offend any jobless people suffering from debt). With that said, I think just as admissions, they look at the overall person because that person will be representing the school after they graduate. I think adcomms have learned by now that doing exceptionally well in law school does not always produce a promising lawyer. Although grades do play a huge part, I think adcomms do take the time and effort to read many of these "bizarre" applications because they know what traits translate to success. Keep in mind people, these guys are adcomms at T14 schools lol....as smart as any of you think you are, they're probably smarter. (sorry to offend anyone who really takes pride in their intelligence, but I'm just saying what I feel is true).

Yes, the traits that translate to success are really high grades which come from really hard work and a little bit of skill on exams. Sure the schools want diversity, but the applicants with really high grades in both semesters will be a pretty diverse group to choose from already.

Lmao. You really believe it only requires a little bit of skill on exams? Imagine if we didn't have access to any of our professor's old exams. I guarantee that'd be a game changer for many. I'm not complaining about it, I'm just saying exam skills are a lot to do with getting good grades.

[Mce252]

URM has nothing to do with it. I've done my research I know all about the layer of AA boost. I'm just saying that I don't believe they look at transfer students solely on grades. You are overestimating the extent in which law schools empty our pockets in debt. Yes it's much worse than we're normally accustomed to but I feel the legal profession is on the right path to recovery (sorry to offend any jobless people suffering from debt). With that said, I think just as admissions, they look at the overall person because that person will be representing the school after they graduate. I think adcomms have learned by now that doing exceptionally well in law school does not always produce a promising lawyer. Although grades do play a huge part, I think adcomms do take the time and effort to read many of these "bizarre" applications because they know what traits translate to success. Keep in mind people, these guys are adcomms at T14 schools lol....as smart as any of you think you are, they're probably smarter. (sorry to offend anyone who really takes pride in their intelligence, but I'm just saying what I feel is true).

Yes, the traits that translate to success are really high grades which come from really hard work and a little bit of skill on exams. Sure the schools want diversity, but the applicants with really high grades in both semesters will be a pretty diverse group to choose from already.

Lmao. You really believe it only requires a little bit of skill on exams? Imagine if we didn't have access to any of our professor's old exams. I guarantee that'd be a game changer for many. I'm not complaining about it, I'm just saying exam skills are a lot to do with getting good grades.

I'm not a good exam taker. I do better than most in my class because I work harder than they do and understand the material more thoroughly before I go into the exam.

[CAsun83]

URM has nothing to do with it. I've done my research I know all about the layer of AA boost. I'm just saying that I don't believe they look at transfer students solely on grades. You are overestimating the extent in which law schools empty our pockets in debt. Yes it's much worse than we're normally accustomed to but I feel the legal profession is on the right path to recovery (sorry to offend any jobless people suffering from debt). With that said, I think just as admissions, they look at the overall person because that person will be representing the school after they graduate. I think adcomms have learned by now that doing exceptionally well in law school does not always produce a promising lawyer. Although grades do play a huge part, I think adcomms do take the time and effort to read many of these "bizarre" applications because they know what traits translate to success. Keep in mind people, these guys are adcomms at T14 schools lol....as smart as any of you think you are, they're probably smarter. (sorry to offend anyone who really takes pride in their intelligence, but I'm just saying what I feel is true).

Yes, the traits that translate to success are really high grades which come from really hard work and a little bit of skill on exams. Sure the schools want diversity, but the applicants with really high grades in both semesters will be a pretty diverse group to choose from already.

Lmao. You really believe it only requires a little bit of skill on exams? Imagine if we didn't have access to any of our professor's old exams. I guarantee that'd be a game changer for many. I'm not complaining about it, I'm just saying exam skills are a lot to do with getting good grades.

I'm not a good exam taker. I do better than most in my class because I work harder than they do and understand the material more thoroughly before I go into the exam.

No one worked harder than me last semester, I knew the law inside and out and still screwed up. It wasn't until I devoted my life to the actual exam instead of the actual material that I saw results.

[CAsun83]

^p.s. - you're dealing with first hand experience here baby.

[Mce252]

^p.s. - you're dealing with first hand experience here baby.

Ya, and I guess I'm just pretending.

[CAsun83]

^p.s. - you're dealing with first hand experience here baby.

Ya, and I guess I'm just pretending.

Yea but you're in the overwhelming majority, which makes you less special

[concurrent fork]

URM has nothing to do with it. I've done my research I know all about the layer of AA boost. I'm just saying that I don't believe they look at transfer students solely on grades. You are overestimating the extent in which law schools empty our pockets in debt. Yes it's much worse than we're normally accustomed to but I feel the legal profession is on the right path to recovery (sorry to offend any jobless people suffering from debt). With that said, I think just as admissions, they look at the overall person because that person will be representing the school after they graduate. I think adcomms have learned by now that doing exceptionally well in law school does not always produce a promising lawyer. Although grades do play a huge part, I think adcomms do take the time and effort to read many of these "bizarre" applications because they know what traits translate to success. Keep in mind people, these guys are adcomms at T14 schools lol....as smart as any of you think you are, they're probably smarter. (sorry to offend anyone who really takes pride in their intelligence, but I'm just saying what I feel is true).

Yes, the traits that translate to success are really high grades which come from really hard work and a little bit of skill on exams. Sure the schools want diversity, but the applicants with really high grades in both semesters will be a pretty diverse group to choose from already.

Lmao. You really believe it only requires a little bit of skill on exams? Imagine if we didn't have access to any of our professor's old exams. I guarantee that'd be a game changer for many. I'm not complaining about it, I'm just saying exam skills are a lot to do with getting good grades.

Top 40% is not even close to high enough for a meaningful transfer. And, as far as we can tell, URM status doesn't help you in transferring (there are a number of threads on this issue if you do a search).

[CAsun83]

URM has nothing to do with it. I've done my research I know all about the layer of AA boost. I'm just saying that I don't believe they look at transfer students solely on grades. You are overestimating the extent in which law schools empty our pockets in debt. Yes it's much worse than we're normally accustomed to but I feel the legal profession is on the right path to recovery (sorry to offend any jobless people suffering from debt). With that said, I think just as admissions, they look at the overall person because that person will be representing the school after they graduate. I think adcomms have learned by now that doing exceptionally well in law school does not always produce a promising lawyer. Although grades do play a huge part, I think adcomms do take the time and effort to read many of these "bizarre" applications because they know what traits translate to success. Keep in mind people, these guys are adcomms at T14 schools lol....as smart as any of you think you are, they're probably smarter. (sorry to offend anyone who really takes pride in their intelligence, but I'm just saying what I feel is true).

Yes, the traits that translate to success are really high grades which come from really hard work and a little bit of skill on exams. Sure the schools want diversity, but the applicants with really high grades in both semesters will be a pretty diverse group to choose from already.

Lmao. You really believe it only requires a little bit of skill on exams? Imagine if we didn't have access to any of our professor's old exams. I guarantee that'd be a game changer for many. I'm not complaining about it, I'm just saying exam skills are a lot to do with getting good grades.

Top 40% is not even close to high enough for a meaningful transfer. And, as far as we can tell, URM status doesn't help you in transferring (there are a number of threads on this issue if you do a search).

You are missing the point. It's obvious that adcomms look for people who are academically distinguished. What I'm asking for is an unbiased, objective response as to whether demonstrating the academic worth to perform at the highest level by showing it in one semester, coupled with tremendous intangibles, whether it can offset a poor first semester? Remember, adcomms are looking for people who will represent their school well, which is why you always find people with exceptional numbers who complain about not getting into the schools they expected to get into based on the school's medians.