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Columbia to Havard?

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:54 pm
by Anonymous User
Hi all,

Just wondering what kind of grades you need to transfer from Columbia to Harvard. Have an A- average here (1 A, 1 A-, 1 B+). Was waitlisted at Harvard when I originally applied. Have a biglaw SA at a top firm this summer.

What would I need to make me competitive here? What would my chances be?

Re: Columbia to Havard?

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:54 am
by jbagelboy
Making this transfer would truly be a mistake. Which is why no one ever does it aside from personal reasons. There is literally no position for which being a transfer at HLS is superior that a top student at CLS; in the majority of cases (clerkships, top firms), top of the class at Columbia is better situated than a transfer at HLS, who is basically treated as median. I’ve spent a lot of time reviewing clerkship applications over the past years, and while I’ve never seen a CLS -> HLS transfer, I’ve seen other T13-> HLS transfers that seriously damaged the student’s chances; first because the recommendations are always worse, and second because someone in the top ten students of their class at a T-4 is way more impressive to us than an HLS transfer kid.

That all being said. You probably have a good chance as long as you make Kent.

Re: Columbia to Havard?

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:08 pm
by jbagelboy
I don’t know why post editing is not permitted on this forum now, but “T-4” above was meant to be “T-14”. Obviously anyone at a TTTT—or any non-top school—benefits from transferring up, especially to HLS.

Re: Columbia to Havard?

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:43 pm
by Anonymous User
jbagelboy wrote:Making this transfer would truly be a mistake. Which is why no one ever does it aside from personal reasons. There is literally no position for which being a transfer at HLS is superior that a top student at CLS; in the majority of cases (clerkships, top firms), top of the class at Columbia is better situated than a transfer at HLS, who is basically treated as median. I’ve spent a lot of time reviewing clerkship applications over the past years, and while I’ve never seen a CLS -> HLS transfer, I’ve seen other T13-> HLS transfers that seriously damaged the student’s chances; first because the recommendations are always worse, and second because someone in the top ten students of their class at a T-4 is way more impressive to us than an HLS transfer kid.

That all being said. You probably have a good chance as long as you make Kent.


It is for personal reasons, but good to know. I'm definitely sure I'll make Kent; aiming for Stone.

Re: Columbia to Havard?

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:44 pm
by jbagelboy
Anonymous User wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Making this transfer would truly be a mistake. Which is why no one ever does it aside from personal reasons. There is literally no position for which being a transfer at HLS is superior that a top student at CLS; in the majority of cases (clerkships, top firms), top of the class at Columbia is better situated than a transfer at HLS, who is basically treated as median. I’ve spent a lot of time reviewing clerkship applications over the past years, and while I’ve never seen a CLS -> HLS transfer, I’ve seen other T13-> HLS transfers that seriously damaged the student’s chances; first because the recommendations are always worse, and second because someone in the top ten students of their class at a T-4 is way more impressive to us than an HLS transfer kid.

That all being said. You probably have a good chance as long as you make Kent.


It is for personal reasons, but good to know. I'm definitely sure I'll make Kent; aiming for Stone.


You have those reversed. Kent is the higher honor. Do you go to CLS?

Re: Columbia to Havard?

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:03 pm
by dabigchina
Judging by the experiences of a few friends who have tried to transfer to H, an A- average isn't enough. I definitely know at least 1 Kent scholar who got rejected at H but got into Y.

Re: Columbia to Havard?

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:46 am
by appind
jbagelboy wrote:Making this transfer would truly be a mistake. Which is why no one ever does it aside from personal reasons. There is literally no position for which being a transfer at HLS is superior that a top student at CLS; in the majority of cases (clerkships, top firms), top of the class at Columbia is better situated than a transfer at HLS, who is basically treated as median. I’ve spent a lot of time reviewing clerkship applications over the past years, and while I’ve never seen a CLS -> HLS transfer, I’ve seen other T13-> HLS transfers that seriously damaged the student’s chances; first because the recommendations are always worse, and second because someone in the top ten students of their class at a T-4 is way more impressive to us than an HLS transfer kid.

That all being said. You probably have a good chance as long as you make Kent.


this link says kent is top 8% but even top 10-15% of lower t14 make hls transfer, do they not? how top of the class at cls one has to be to get transfer to hls?
http://www.wikicu.com/Law_School_Honors ... t_Scholars.

Re: Columbia to Havard?

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:10 am
by BrainsyK
appind wrote:this link says kent is top 8% but even top 10-15% of lower t14 make hls transfer, do they not? how top of the class at cls one has to be to get transfer to hls?
http://www.wikicu.com/Law_School_Honors ... t_Scholars.


That page was last modified in 2011.

Re: Columbia to Havard?

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:47 pm
by dabigchina
appind wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Making this transfer would truly be a mistake. Which is why no one ever does it aside from personal reasons. There is literally no position for which being a transfer at HLS is superior that a top student at CLS; in the majority of cases (clerkships, top firms), top of the class at Columbia is better situated than a transfer at HLS, who is basically treated as median. I’ve spent a lot of time reviewing clerkship applications over the past years, and while I’ve never seen a CLS -> HLS transfer, I’ve seen other T13-> HLS transfers that seriously damaged the student’s chances; first because the recommendations are always worse, and second because someone in the top ten students of their class at a T-4 is way more impressive to us than an HLS transfer kid.

That all being said. You probably have a good chance as long as you make Kent.


this link says kent is top 8% but even top 10-15% of lower t14 make hls transfer, do they not? how top of the class at cls one has to be to get transfer to hls?
http://www.wikicu.com/Law_School_Honors ... t_Scholars.


http://hls.harvard.edu/content/uploads/ ... Report.pdf

Top 15% is probably too low to realistically transfer to H. Its 509 report says its 25th %/ile GPA for transfers is 3.87, which is way higher than top 15% (unless you go somewhere with grade inflation like NU).

Re: Columbia to Havard?

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:04 pm
by dabigchina
BrainsyK wrote:
appind wrote:this link says kent is top 8% but even top 10-15% of lower t14 make hls transfer, do they not? how top of the class at cls one has to be to get transfer to hls?
http://www.wikicu.com/Law_School_Honors ... t_Scholars.


That page was last modified in 2011.

It's probably close to top 8-10% for 2L and 3L, but it's closer to 3-5% for 1L.

Re: Columbia to Havard?

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:08 pm
by appind
dabigchina wrote:
appind wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Making this transfer would truly be a mistake. Which is why no one ever does it aside from personal reasons. There is literally no position for which being a transfer at HLS is superior that a top student at CLS; in the majority of cases (clerkships, top firms), top of the class at Columbia is better situated than a transfer at HLS, who is basically treated as median. I’ve spent a lot of time reviewing clerkship applications over the past years, and while I’ve never seen a CLS -> HLS transfer, I’ve seen other T13-> HLS transfers that seriously damaged the student’s chances; first because the recommendations are always worse, and second because someone in the top ten students of their class at a T-4 is way more impressive to us than an HLS transfer kid.

That all being said. You probably have a good chance as long as you make Kent.


this link says kent is top 8% but even top 10-15% of lower t14 make hls transfer, do they not? how top of the class at cls one has to be to get transfer to hls?
http://www.wikicu.com/Law_School_Honors ... t_Scholars.


http://hls.harvard.edu/content/uploads/ ... Report.pdf

Top 15% is probably too low to realistically transfer to H. Its 509 report says its 25th %/ile GPA for transfers is 3.87, which is way higher than top 15% (unless you go somewhere with grade inflation like NU).


yeah but thats median for all schools from which transfers came. The gpa bar is lower the higher the rank of school is it not?
Of 40 transfers only 2 were from t6, 1 from s and 1 from nyu.

what's "other first year enrollees 83" ?

Re: Columbia to Havard?

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:20 pm
by dabigchina
appind wrote:
dabigchina wrote:
appind wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Making this transfer would truly be a mistake. Which is why no one ever does it aside from personal reasons. There is literally no position for which being a transfer at HLS is superior that a top student at CLS; in the majority of cases (clerkships, top firms), top of the class at Columbia is better situated than a transfer at HLS, who is basically treated as median. I’ve spent a lot of time reviewing clerkship applications over the past years, and while I’ve never seen a CLS -> HLS transfer, I’ve seen other T13-> HLS transfers that seriously damaged the student’s chances; first because the recommendations are always worse, and second because someone in the top ten students of their class at a T-4 is way more impressive to us than an HLS transfer kid.

That all being said. You probably have a good chance as long as you make Kent.


this link says kent is top 8% but even top 10-15% of lower t14 make hls transfer, do they not? how top of the class at cls one has to be to get transfer to hls?
http://www.wikicu.com/Law_School_Honors ... t_Scholars.


http://hls.harvard.edu/content/uploads/ ... Report.pdf

Top 15% is probably too low to realistically transfer to H. Its 509 report says its 25th %/ile GPA for transfers is 3.87, which is way higher than top 15% (unless you go somewhere with grade inflation like NU).


yeah but thats median for all schools from which transfers came. The gpa bar is lower the higher the rank of school is it not?
Of 40 transfers only 2 were from t6, 1 from s and 1 from nyu.

what's "other first year enrollees 83" ?


Anecdotally, I'm not aware of anyone with a 3.66 getting into Harvard. I'm also not sure where you are getting your 15% number from. Having gone through the transfer process from a T-6, my impression was that you have more wiggle room from a T-14 than you do from a T1, but not that much more.

Re: Columbia to Havard?

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:41 pm
by appind
dabigchina wrote:
appind wrote:
dabigchina wrote:
appind wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Making this transfer would truly be a mistake. Which is why no one ever does it aside from personal reasons. There is literally no position for which being a transfer at HLS is superior that a top student at CLS; in the majority of cases (clerkships, top firms), top of the class at Columbia is better situated than a transfer at HLS, who is basically treated as median. I’ve spent a lot of time reviewing clerkship applications over the past years, and while I’ve never seen a CLS -> HLS transfer, I’ve seen other T13-> HLS transfers that seriously damaged the student’s chances; first because the recommendations are always worse, and second because someone in the top ten students of their class at a T-4 is way more impressive to us than an HLS transfer kid.

That all being said. You probably have a good chance as long as you make Kent.


this link says kent is top 8% but even top 10-15% of lower t14 make hls transfer, do they not? how top of the class at cls one has to be to get transfer to hls?
http://www.wikicu.com/Law_School_Honors ... t_Scholars.


http://hls.harvard.edu/content/uploads/ ... Report.pdf

Top 15% is probably too low to realistically transfer to H. Its 509 report says its 25th %/ile GPA for transfers is 3.87, which is way higher than top 15% (unless you go somewhere with grade inflation like NU).


yeah but thats median for all schools from which transfers came. The gpa bar is lower the higher the rank of school is it not?
Of 40 transfers only 2 were from t6, 1 from s and 1 from nyu.

what's "other first year enrollees 83" ?


Anecdotally, I'm not aware of anyone with a 3.66 getting into Harvard. I'm also not sure where you are getting your 15% number from. Having gone through the transfer process from a T-6, my impression was that you have more wiggle room from a T-14 than you do from a T1, but not that much more.


it's based on the first sticky thread here viewtopic.php?f=27&t=82937

To transfer into HYS you need:
-top 5-10% at a Top 20
-top 5% at T1
-top 1% at a mid-upper T2


if top 10% at t20 get in that'd be equivalent to around 15% for lower t14 for hys.

Re: Columbia to Havard?

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:40 pm
by dabigchina
appind wrote:
dabigchina wrote:
appind wrote:
dabigchina wrote:
appind wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Making this transfer would truly be a mistake. Which is why no one ever does it aside from personal reasons. There is literally no position for which being a transfer at HLS is superior that a top student at CLS; in the majority of cases (clerkships, top firms), top of the class at Columbia is better situated than a transfer at HLS, who is basically treated as median. I’ve spent a lot of time reviewing clerkship applications over the past years, and while I’ve never seen a CLS -> HLS transfer, I’ve seen other T13-> HLS transfers that seriously damaged the student’s chances; first because the recommendations are always worse, and second because someone in the top ten students of their class at a T-4 is way more impressive to us than an HLS transfer kid.

That all being said. You probably have a good chance as long as you make Kent.


this link says kent is top 8% but even top 10-15% of lower t14 make hls transfer, do they not? how top of the class at cls one has to be to get transfer to hls?
http://www.wikicu.com/Law_School_Honors ... t_Scholars.


http://hls.harvard.edu/content/uploads/ ... Report.pdf

Top 15% is probably too low to realistically transfer to H. Its 509 report says its 25th %/ile GPA for transfers is 3.87, which is way higher than top 15% (unless you go somewhere with grade inflation like NU).


yeah but thats median for all schools from which transfers came. The gpa bar is lower the higher the rank of school is it not?
Of 40 transfers only 2 were from t6, 1 from s and 1 from nyu.

what's "other first year enrollees 83" ?


Anecdotally, I'm not aware of anyone with a 3.66 getting into Harvard. I'm also not sure where you are getting your 15% number from. Having gone through the transfer process from a T-6, my impression was that you have more wiggle room from a T-14 than you do from a T1, but not that much more.


it's based on the first sticky thread here viewtopic.php?f=27&t=82937

To transfer into HYS you need:
-top 5-10% at a Top 20
-top 5% at T1
-top 1% at a mid-upper T2


if top 10% at t20 get in that'd be equivalent to around 15% for lower t14 for hys.

Right, I also saw that sticky when I was applying. What I'm saying is your assumption doesn't hold up in the real world. To have a good chance at transferring to HYS, you really should have a GPA in the very high Stone (above 3.7) to Kent Scholar range. Columbia doesn't calculate GPAs officially, but I'm going by

B = 3
B+ = 3.33
A- = 3.66
A/A+ = 4