Is it bad to go to law school with the intention of transferring? Forum

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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LitigatingLiar

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Re: Is it bad to go to law school with the intention of transferring?

Post by LitigatingLiar » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:02 pm

If you're going to a school with a low ranking, you need to know that you're not the only one whose going in with the intention of transferring. I did my first year at Nova Southeastern, with the intention of transferring to Florida International. There was 38 of us in the evening program and I know of 10 people that wanted to transfer out. There may have been more. The lower ranked schools have a low curve to minimize the number of students that transfer out. Then you have to know where you want to transfer to and what are the odds of getting accepted there. Florida International accepted 7 of over 200 transfer applications they received. During an information seminar for potential transfer student,s Florida International told me that there are some schools that if they know you want to transfer will make your life difficult if you don't end up leaving, so if you decide that you want to go the transfer route, you should keep it quiet. Also don't be surprised if professors at your current school won't give you a recommendation letter. St Thomas School of Law being on of them. Florida International still accepted a few students from St Thomas, so that may not be a big deal. Find out what the school you want to transfer to requires of you and know that its a gamble. Also realize that you may have to go to the school you want to transfer out of for the full 3 or 4 years. Make sure its somewhere that you won't want to quit if you don't get to transfer.

icansortofmath

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Re: Is it bad to go to law school with the intention of transferring?

Post by icansortofmath » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:04 pm

I went in law school (~50-70) with the intention of transferring BUT:
1. I would have been OKAY if I didn't end up transferring.
2. I was a split app with LSAT way above the top 25th percentile for the school I went to so I had reasons to believe I was smarter than the rest of the class.

I ended up in the top 10% (probably 5% but don't know for sure) and transferred, though not to as high as I hoped.

I am still very glad I did it.

But if you're going in with a medianish profile, you really shouldn't expect to be anything more than median no matter how hard you work. There are people almost (some literally) killing themselves during 1L fighting for transfer spots.

In your spot, just retake the LSAT. It's the safer route with no downside other than a year lost.

QContinuum

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Re: Is it bad to go to law school with the intention of transferring?

Post by QContinuum » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:15 pm

icansortofmath wrote:I went in law school (~50-70) with the intention of transferring BUT:
1. I would have been OKAY if I didn't end up transferring.
2. I was a split app with LSAT way above the top 25th percentile for the school I went to so I had reasons to believe I was smarter than the rest of the class.

I ended up in the top 10% (probably 5% but don't know for sure) and transferred, though not to as high as I hoped.

I am still very glad I did it.

But if you're going in with a medianish profile, you really shouldn't expect to be anything more than median no matter how hard you work. There are people almost (some literally) killing themselves during 1L fighting for transfer spots.

In your spot, just retake the LSAT. It's the safer route with no downside other than a year lost.
Congrats on your success. I agree with your conclusion that retaking the LSAT is the best option, but I disagree that folks with a high LSAT can count on outperforming their peers during 1L. Law schools' 25th/50th/75th LSAT percentiles often differ by only two or three points. I would be very hesitant to read too much into a distinction between, say, a 162 and a 164.

icansortofmath

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Re: Is it bad to go to law school with the intention of transferring?

Post by icansortofmath » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:29 pm

I agree. A couple points above median really doesn't mean much. I was more than a few points above though. (think high 170s LSAT and sub 3.0 UGPA). But by the time we're talking about like 5 points above the 25% cutoff for incoming class, I think it's pretty fair to assume you're walking in with above average intellect relative to rest of the class and if you can buckle down and work hard (unlike whatever I did to lead to the super underachieving UGPA), you should be able to place well.

More to the point, the more important thing was the school I did go to fed reasonably well into the local big law market and I would have been okay staying there.

And just one more thing... I do think my undergrad hurt me a bit. It was just really extreme (it was basically straight As and some Ds and Fs with only a few Bs) and really screamed "problem child." Kids that placed lower than me ended up transferring to higher ranked schools. My understanding is undergrad transcript basically don't matter after 1L but if you have an extreme early onset senioritis like I did in college, you should be aware it may still hurt your transfer opportunities a bit.

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Dcc617

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Re: Is it bad to go to law school with the intention of transferring?

Post by Dcc617 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:59 am

Banking on transferring is flat out dumb. People who are saying you can do it “if you know yourself and work hard” are giving actively harmful advice.

1. You have unlimited takes for the LSAT. You can either go all in and out everything on the line for your single set of 1L grades, or you can take the LSAT until you get a score that lets you do your goals. Why would would anyone recommend working your butt off for a single set of 1L grades when you could work your butt off for a good LSAT? And seriously, 1L grades are way more random than people think. Super smart people can get sick,or misunderstand a question, or have a bad day, or have a shit lazy professor who doesn’t read it right, or any other of the million things that can mess you up.

2. You lose your scholarship and connections if you transfer. Again, if you had done it right the first time, you would have gotten money at your goal school.

3. Because it works out for some people does not mean that it will definitely work out for you. This should be obvious, but some of the successful transfers are taking the position that because their plan worked out yours can too. That’s true, but for every successful transfer there is a big portion of the class who couldn’t quite get there. Blaming that solely on work ethic is dumb. There was at least a good portion of luck involved.

So don’t go to a school unless you’d be happy with the median outcome. It’s too much time and money to play 1L roulette.

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BasilHallward

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Re: Is it bad to go to law school with the intention of transferring?

Post by BasilHallward » Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:40 pm

Had option to go to two different T45-50 schools in my general market with 80-100% scholarship thinking I could crack top 10-15% and transfer. I wised up quickly and instead retook the LSAT for third time and got into a T14 with partial scholarship. Result was median grades and a job with desired firm in desired market. Never assume above median. What people fail to grasp is that A LOT of people end up in the bottom 25% of the class, and yes, I know some who had 170-175+ LSATs. The LSAT is a cognitive horsepower test and it's just you and that multiple choice test. Law school is very different and many other factors (maturity, age, social skills) come into play.

SesameMochi

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Re: Is it bad to go to law school with the intention of transferring?

Post by SesameMochi » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:45 am

Don't bank on going in to transfer. Some of the less well ranked schools have brutal curves.

lolo24189

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Re: Is it bad to go to law school with the intention of transferring?

Post by lolo24189 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:05 pm

No. I did and I just got into Cornell Law on a transfer.

Would highly recommend! Unless you're not sure if you're going to do well in law school
Also OCI might be really difficult - IDK yet

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cavalier1138

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Re: Is it bad to go to law school with the intention of transferring?

Post by cavalier1138 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:35 pm

lolo24189 wrote:No. I did and I just got into Cornell Law on a transfer.

Would highly recommend! Unless you're not sure if you're going to do well in law school
Also OCI might be really difficult - IDK yet
Wow, that's a lot of caveats. Just to keep track for everyone playing along at home, it is not a bad idea to go to law school with the plan of transferring if and only if:

-You know you are going to do well in law school
-You know that you won't suffer in OCI at an unknown school, because you can't predict transfer admissions
-You don't mind paying an extra $100k+ for the privilege of not taking the LSAT one more time

So in other words, if you're omniscient and loaded with cash, you should plan on transferring. But if you were omniscient, you probably would have done a lot better on the LSAT and wouldn't be making stupid decisions like going to a law school with the intention of transferring.

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inter-associate

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Re: Is it bad to go to law school with the intention of transferring?

Post by inter-associate » Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:11 pm

I barely got in to a T-2 school, worked my tail off to transfer to a T-20 school and have been working at V-10 firms for more than 6 years and I still think it is a horrible idea to go to law school with the intent to transfer. First, I still get nightmares when I remember how I could have lost any chance of achieving my dreams with just one bad test. Second, I had to work twice as hard as everyone else around me every step of the way - and if I had put even a small piece of that effort into improving my LSAT I could have had a much much much easier and enjoyable law school experience.

To add a little more perspective on why transferring is a total crap shoot - I had among the worst credentials among those entering my 1L class and graduated in the top 2% of my T-20 school. Literally every person who started 1L at a school ranked similar to mine or higher would have expected to do better than me based on credentials and yet very few of them did. There is simply no way to know how you will do in your chosen law school before you begin. I acknowledge that I am one of the fortunate/blessed/incredibly lucky (pick your adjective) few who got away with this but I would never recommend others do the same.

Three other points. First, just to be clear, law school itself is not a crap shoot. Some people are really good at it and excel in almost all of their classes. You just have no way of knowing if you are one of those people until you have finished your first year.

Second, you cannot simply outwork others and succeed in law school. I studied and attended class 12-16 hours a day every day other than Sunday my entire first year, without taking it easy for a single week. It was literally not possible for anyone to work “harder” than me, but I know plenty of folks who worked just as hard without the same result.

Finally, there is nothing wrong with attending a “lesser” law school if you go in with eyes wide open and a degree from that school is in line with your realistic career goals. There is also nothing wrong with wanting to transfer. But it is very irresponsible to advise anyone to stake their career goals on a transfer. The support from this position comes not from the anecdotes of the few people who succeeded, but from the 95% of law students who did not.

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Mullens

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Re: Is it bad to go to law school with the intention of transferring?

Post by Mullens » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:47 pm

lolo24189 wrote:No. I did and I just got into Cornell Law on a transfer.

Would highly recommend! Unless you're not sure if you're going to do well in law school
Also OCI might be really difficult - IDK yet
Cornell lets transfers participate in OCI now? They didn’t used to...

QContinuum

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Re: Is it bad to go to law school with the intention of transferring?

Post by QContinuum » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:16 pm

Mullens wrote:
lolo24189 wrote:No. I did and I just got into Cornell Law on a transfer.

Would highly recommend! Unless you're not sure if you're going to do well in law school
Also OCI might be really difficult - IDK yet
Cornell lets transfers participate in OCI now? They didn’t used to...
See https://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/admis ... JUMP_34110

Early admission transfers can participate in OCI. Regular admission transfers typically can't as they usually miss the OCI deadline by the time they're admitted.

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