T80: Thinking of Transferring to T10 Forum

[NoDayButToday]

I doubt it changes anything. If your GPA stays within their mid ranges on the ABA 509s, I think you have an excellent shot.

[EncyclopediaOrange]

I doubt it changes anything. If your GPA stays within their mid ranges on the ABA 509s, I think you have an excellent shot.

[lavarman84]

Hey everyone, unfortunately my school is no longer T60 but is now T80 smh.

How does this change my chances at HYS or CCN assuming I stick within the top 5-7% range.

Not going to make a difference if your grades stay the same, but your chances at HYS are relatively weak in the top 5% to 7% range.(you generally need to be in the top 2 or 3 students in your class to get Harvard or Stanford at a TT, if not #1)

[Future Ex-Engineer]

Hey everyone, unfortunately my school is no longer T60 but is now T80 smh.

How does this change my chances at HYS or CCN assuming I stick within the top 5-7% range.

No idea, just dropped in to say there's no such thing as T60 or T80. You go to a T100 school.

[GoneSouth]

I don't think the curriculum thing is crazy. I've taken two classes at a T6 with visiting profs from a low-ranked school and I can tell from their practice exams at the other school that our class was taught at a much higher level.

[KijiStewart]

Hey everyone, unfortunately my school is no longer T60 but is now T80 smh.

How does this change my chances at HYS or CCN assuming I stick within the top 5-7% range.

Not going to make a difference if your grades stay the same, but your chances at HYS are relatively weak in the top 5% to 7% range.(you generally need to be in the top 2 or 3 students in your class to get Harvard or Stanford at a TT, if not #1)

By top 2-3 in class, is that entire 1L class or section.

Thanks

[SplitMyPants]

the entire class

[lavarman84]

Hey everyone, unfortunately my school is no longer T60 but is now T80 smh.

How does this change my chances at HYS or CCN assuming I stick within the top 5-7% range.

Not going to make a difference if your grades stay the same, but your chances at HYS are relatively weak in the top 5% to 7% range.(you generally need to be in the top 2 or 3 students in your class to get Harvard or Stanford at a TT, if not #1)

By top 2-3 in class, is that entire 1L class or section.

Thanks

Entire 1L class and that's being generous.

[KissMyAxe]

Hey everyone, unfortunately my school is no longer T60 but is now T80 smh.

How does this change my chances at HYS or CCN assuming I stick within the top 5-7% range.

Not going to make a difference if your grades stay the same, but your chances at HYS are relatively weak in the top 5% to 7% range.(you generally need to be in the top 2 or 3 students in your class to get Harvard or Stanford at a TT, if not #1)

By top 2-3 in class, is that entire 1L class or section.

Thanks

Entire 1L class and that's being generous.

Yeah, I thought it was a bit overly generous as well. I'd guess top 3 would put you in the running at Harvard, but they'd probably need to be #1 to have even an outside shot at Stanford. OP is out for YLS no matter their grades. They take extremely small transfer classes, and they're pretty much always top students at other T14s.

[Nebby]

Harvard is very nitpicky with transfers from TT. I was top of my class after 1L at a school ranked in the 90s and wasn't accepted. It's still worth the application though.

[lavarman84]

Hey everyone, unfortunately my school is no longer T60 but is now T80 smh.

How does this change my chances at HYS or CCN assuming I stick within the top 5-7% range.

Not going to make a difference if your grades stay the same, but your chances at HYS are relatively weak in the top 5% to 7% range.(you generally need to be in the top 2 or 3 students in your class to get Harvard or Stanford at a TT, if not #1)

By top 2-3 in class, is that entire 1L class or section.

Thanks

Entire 1L class and that's being generous.

Yeah, I thought it was a bit overly generous as well. I'd guess top 3 would put you in the running at Harvard, but they'd probably need to be #1 to have even an outside shot at Stanford. OP is out for YLS no matter their grades. They take extremely small transfer classes, and they're pretty much always top students at other T14s.

Stanford seems to be a little more lenient with people at California schools, but yes, this is accurate. And Harvard seems to reject a decent amount of people who were #2 or #3 in their class at schools in the 30 to 90 range. So top 3 puts you in the running, but you shouldn't feel any sort of confidence if you're not #1.

[Yugihoe]

Harvard is very nitpicky with transfers from TT. I was top of my class after 1L at a school ranked in the 90s and wasn't accepted. It's still worth the application though.

Gunner Nebby is inspiring

[KijiStewart]

Harvard is very nitpicky with transfers from TT. I was top of my class after 1L at a school ranked in the 90s and wasn't accepted. It's still worth the application though.

Gunner Nebby is inspiring

So it looks like my options will be Michigan or Penn (admitted at former, haven't heard back from latter but expecting a yes).

Is there any reason not to do Michigan besides debt. Is the whole 'stigma' of transferring thing just a myth.

[rpupkin]

Harvard is very nitpicky with transfers from TT. I was top of my class after 1L at a school ranked in the 90s and wasn't accepted. It's still worth the application though.

Gunner Nebby is inspiring

So it looks like my options will be Michigan or Penn (admitted at former, haven't heard back from latter but expecting a yes).

Is there any reason not to do Michigan besides debt. Is the whole 'stigma' of transferring thing just a myth.

The reason not to transfer is debt + not significantly improved job prospects. (I assume the goal you shared in your OP—a mid law firm—is still your goal.)

And, no, there is no significant stigma attached to transferring. But check out the partner's posts in this thread about transfers and OCI: firms often evaluate transfers based on their performance at their 1L school. That is, if the firm wouldn't have hired you if you stayed at your 1L school, they won't hire you at your new school either.

The main benefit to doing OCI at a place like Michigan is that you get access to firms who would never come to your 1L school. But considering that your goal is mid law and not big law, I'm not sure that's much of a benefit for you.

[KijiStewart]

Harvard is very nitpicky with transfers from TT. I was top of my class after 1L at a school ranked in the 90s and wasn't accepted. It's still worth the application though.

Gunner Nebby is inspiring

So it looks like my options will be Michigan or Penn (admitted at former, haven't heard back from latter but expecting a yes).

Is there any reason not to do Michigan besides debt. Is the whole 'stigma' of transferring thing just a myth.

The reason not to transfer is debt + not significantly improved job prospects. (I assume the goal you shared in your OP—a mid law firm—is still your goal.)

And, no, there is no significant stigma attached to transferring. But check out the partner's posts in this thread about transfers and OCI: firms often evaluate transfers based on their performance at their 1L school. That is, if the firm wouldn't have hired you if you stayed at your 1L school, they won't hire you at your new school either.

The main benefit to doing OCI at a place like Michigan is that you get access to firms who would never come to your 1L school. But considering that your goal is mid law and not big law, I'm not sure that's much of a benefit for you.

Thanks! FYI, for first round OCI at my TT there is only ONE V100 (actually any firm for that matter, but IDK what second round will offer) firm that allows us to bid for an out of state office. My long-term goal is definitely mid-size, but I'm confident I can grind out non-NY/DC BL for a few years and I 100% want a 2L BL summer associate position.

[rpupkin]

Harvard is very nitpicky with transfers from TT. I was top of my class after 1L at a school ranked in the 90s and wasn't accepted. It's still worth the application though.

Gunner Nebby is inspiring

So it looks like my options will be Michigan or Penn (admitted at former, haven't heard back from latter but expecting a yes).

Is there any reason not to do Michigan besides debt. Is the whole 'stigma' of transferring thing just a myth.

The reason not to transfer is debt + not significantly improved job prospects. (I assume the goal you shared in your OP—a mid law firm—is still your goal.)

And, no, there is no significant stigma attached to transferring. But check out the partner's posts in this thread about transfers and OCI: firms often evaluate transfers based on their performance at their 1L school. That is, if the firm wouldn't have hired you if you stayed at your 1L school, they won't hire you at your new school either.

The main benefit to doing OCI at a place like Michigan is that you get access to firms who would never come to your 1L school. But considering that your goal is mid law and not big law, I'm not sure that's much of a benefit for you.

Thanks! FYI, for first round OCI at my TT there is only ONE V100 (actually any firm for that matter, but IDK what second round will offer) firm that allows us to bid for an out of state office. My long-term goal is definitely mid-size, but I'm confident I can grind out non-NY/DC BL for a few years and I 100% want a 2L BL summer associate position.

Ah, I didn't understand your goals from your initial post. It sounds like your short-term goal is east-coast BL. If that's your goal, then it's probably worth it to transfer—though, again, be aware that many firms may not consider you because of your 1L school. If you do transfer, make sure to find out which firms have a history of hiring transfers at OCI.

[KijiStewart]

Harvard is very nitpicky with transfers from TT. I was top of my class after 1L at a school ranked in the 90s and wasn't accepted. It's still worth the application though.

Gunner Nebby is inspiring

So it looks like my options will be Michigan or Penn (admitted at former, haven't heard back from latter but expecting a yes).

Is there any reason not to do Michigan besides debt. Is the whole 'stigma' of transferring thing just a myth.

The reason not to transfer is debt + not significantly improved job prospects. (I assume the goal you shared in your OP—a mid law firm—is still your goal.)

And, no, there is no significant stigma attached to transferring. But check out the partner's posts in this thread about transfers and OCI: firms often evaluate transfers based on their performance at their 1L school. That is, if the firm wouldn't have hired you if you stayed at your 1L school, they won't hire you at your new school either.

The main benefit to doing OCI at a place like Michigan is that you get access to firms who would never come to your 1L school. But considering that your goal is mid law and not big law, I'm not sure that's much of a benefit for you.

Thanks! FYI, for first round OCI at my TT there is only ONE V100 (actually any firm for that matter, but IDK what second round will offer) firm that allows us to bid for an out of state office. My long-term goal is definitely mid-size, but I'm confident I can grind out non-NY/DC BL for a few years and I 100% want a 2L BL summer associate position.

Ah, I didn't understand your goals from your initial post. It sounds like your short-term goal is east-coast BL. If that's your goal, then it's probably worth it to transfer—though, again, be aware that many firms may not consider you because of your 1L school. If you do transfer, make sure to find out which firms have a history of hiring transfers at OCI.

I guess you can say I've jumped on the BL bandwaggon. I know someone at BL litigation in Chicago (I want litigation) who tells me the work/ doc review is shit but at least the hours aren't terrible. Good mid-sized firms in my region barely recruit from my TT so this is a moot point in terms of arguing I shouldn't transfer.

Also, at a school like Michigan, what's 3L recruiting like because at that point all the firms will have access to my performance at a T10?

[rpupkin]

Also, at a school like Michigan, what's 3L recruiting like because at that point all the firms will have access to my performance at a T10?

3L OCI is an uphill climb everywhere. Don't have a plan that counts on 3L OCI. Although there are exceptions, the few open spots that exist at 3L OCI generally go to students who did a 2L SA at another big law firm.

Before you transfer and take on significant additional debt, do your best to figure out how well transfers fare at Michigan or Penn OCI. Don't just rely on generic reassurances from the school (or positive anecdotes on TLS). See if you can get stats of some sort.

[KijiStewart]

Harvard is very nitpicky with transfers from TT. I was top of my class after 1L at a school ranked in the 90s and wasn't accepted. It's still worth the application though.

/quote]
(I assume the goal you shared in your OP—a mid law firm—is still your goal.)

But considering that your goal is mid law and not big law, I'm not sure that's much of a benefit for you.

Can you explain your reasoning how Michigan wouldn't help me with landing a mid-size job if thats what I wanted. Aren't (good) mid size firms just as selective as big ones. My region is flooded with T14s who return at big and medium sized firms.

[rpupkin]

Can you explain your reasoning how Michigan wouldn't help me with landing a mid-size job if thats what I wanted. Aren't (good) mid size firms just as selective as big ones.

Generally not. Mid-size firms tend to hire a lot more grads from regional schools.

I mean, there are small litigation firms that are even more selective than big law firms, but folks generally refer to those places as "litigation boutiques," not as "mid-size firms" or "mid-law."

[Jmart082]

OP: you're fine where you are right now if Midlaw is the end goal.

[KijiStewart]

OP: you're fine where you are right now if Midlaw is the end goal.

Would Michigan help me if my goal was a litigation boutique?

FYI everyone, I clerked for 6 weeks at an elite litigation boutique (50/50 split between attorneys who are alums of my TT / T14s) and ALL the attorneys told me regardless of my career goals to go to Michigan or Penn. (Some tbh were more pro-Penn which I may not get into ... but I feel like Michigan is better for me anyway).

[sanzgo]

dude just go to michigan. based on all your other posts in other threads, seems like you're just trying to fish for reasons to go.

your career goals may change and michigan puts you in a better position in that respect. and it's not necessarily the case that you'll be out of the running for biglaw firms that don't recruit from your 1L school during 2L oci. it's more difficult, but if you're a great interviewer and you have decent WE, you still have a chance.

plus since you're international, you're gonna need h1b sponsorship (assuming you don't have an alternative means here). michigan puts you in a better place for that.

[KijiStewart]

Since the consensus in this thread is that intellectual fulfillment shouldn't be a factor for ANY transfer application, or general law application for that matter, (see page 1), then why do all you T10ers go to a T10. Couldn't you have gone to a regional T50 or T100 school in your desired practice region, get way more scholarship $$ and kick ass on the easier curve and have (almost) as good a shot at BL for standing out. (Presumption is if you got 165+ LSAT, your odds of finishing top 5-10% at TT are as high as top 50% at T 10).

[rpupkin]

Since the consensus in this thread is that intellectual fulfillment shouldn't be a factor for ANY transfer application (see page 1), then why do all you T10ers go to a T10. Couldn't you have gone to a regional T50 or T100 school in your desired practice region, get way more scholarship $$ and kick ass on the easier curve and have (almost) as good a shot at BL for standing out. (Presumption is if you got 165+ LSAT, your odds of finishing top 5-10% at TT are as high as top 50% at T 10).

Your bolded presumption is way, way off. Once you get rid of that faulty presumption, the logic of attending a T10 over a V50 becomes clear (at least it's clear if the person's goal is BL).