Help A'nold think clearly......... Forum

[A'nold]

Alright, here's the situation: It is not final yet, but I will likely be in the 5-10% range at a t3. I hate my ghetto school and really, REALLY want to go somewhere less ghetto. There are t3 schools out there that are respectable, but that is not my school.

Anyway, I was hoping to go up this semester in rank and have a shot at some t14 schools but that is highly unlikely now. I am going to apply to a few reaches, I think like Berkeley, NU, already applied EA ft/pt at GULC, Vandy and ULCA. However, the odds are against me getting into any of those schools. Targets schools seem to be the WUSTL/ND/Minn/GW/Emory range. My hopes of national mobility have fallen by the wayside and I am now looking at these strong regionals.

I would prefer to live in the PNW and will be applying to UW/Hastings/Davis/Irvine but UW is very hard to get into as a transfer and Hastings and Davis are out-of-this-world expensive w/ this whole tuition increase thing.

My brief contemplation of biglaw is also very much gone, to which I am actually pretty grateful, haha, and I am once again focusing solely on prosecution. I would love to hear from people regarding the employment prospects for prosecutors coming from the schools I am looking at. I am looking for a good regional school in a not completely saturated area (no D.C., N.Y., L.A.) where one has a good shot of landing some kind of prosecutor job SOMEWHERE, i.e., in a market where the school is king and grads are sought after locally. Trying to find a school where the cliche "outside of the t14, blank school is the most respected in the entire region" applies accurately. I honestly just want a job upon graduation working for the gov. to hit up the LRAP as I have federal UG loans as well that I want to get discharged. Thanks guys.

[MURPH]

PM'ed you

[Journeybound]

I'm sorry that your grades didn't turn out as you had hoped. That makes me a little bit more nervous about grades coming out next week. Yikes. Anyways, good luck weighing out your options. I'd like to see what others have to say.

[A'nold]

I'm sorry that your grades didn't turn out as you had hoped. That makes me a little bit more nervous about grades coming out next week. Yikes. Anyways, good luck weighing out your options. I'd like to see what others have to say.

I mean, I'll be honest, it was a shock but not a complete disaster either. If my other two grades are not fantastic, I will likely be the 6th, 7th, or 8th ranked student out of like 110-140 students, so I am still doing o.k., just not well enough to have a great fighting chance at t14 schools.

[modestsquirrel]

Hey A'nold:
I worked in NYC in Biglaw for several years and had friends in the NY DA's office. They had a relativley large number of grads from Emory and I worked w/ a number myself. So, that may suggest something of the mobility of that degree. I have considered the school myself Aside from that, I would add UNC to my list if I were you. Chapel Hill is amazing, it is cheap, it dominates North Carolina, and the schools primary focus is public interest/ gov't. The target schools are all in crowded markets that you mentioned. Would you have a chance at Penn? Might also be worth a look. Also, W&M is respected in gov't. Also, cheaper and worth a look.

[Mickey Quicknumbers]

EmoryTime!

[98234872348]

I would prefer to live in the PNW and will be applying to UW/Hastings/Davis/Irvine but UW is very hard to get into as a transfer and Hastings and Davis are out-of-this-world expensive w/ this whole tuition increase thing.

Don't transfer to Hastings or Davis A'nold.

[A'nold]

Thanks. What about Emory makes it better than the others in your guys' opinion?

[modestsquirrel]

UNC! UNC! Sorry. Emory is number 1 in Atlanta. The other schools aren't the number ones in their markets. Although, I suppose you still have to contend with Vanderbilt, UVA, etc in ATL. Also, it is a "school on the rise" they throw scholarship money at students in ridiculous amounts, which is boosting it through the rankings. I have heard really shitty things about WUSTL. Namely that they are fudging their employment numbers by absurd amounts. And ND gets no love from anyone, ever. It's known as a religious school and I have never met anyone to ever attend it.

[Alyosha]

UNC! UNC! Sorry. Emory is number 1 in Atlanta. The other schools aren't the number ones in their markets. Although, I suppose you still have to contend with Vanderbilt, UVA, etc in ATL. Also, it is a "school on the rise" they throw scholarship money at students in ridiculous amounts, which is boosting it through the rankings. I have heard really shitty things about WUSTL. Namely that they are fudging their employment numbers by absurd amounts. And ND gets no love from anyone, ever. It's known as a religious school and I have never met anyone to ever attend it.

Umm, he's transferring so he will not get scholarship money. UNC only takes a very limited number of transfers and they want a compelling reason to be in NC, which it doesn't appear A'nold has. I'm not sure if you understand the transfer process.

Anyway, A'nold I think you are going to be surprised with these next two classes, and still get into the T14. Also, why not UCLA or USC? (though I admittedly don't know much about how many transfers they take/whether they take people from T4 schools). Beyond that, I would investigate the markets you are interested in, see which schools the prosecutor offices recruit at, etc. Good luck.

[A'nold]

I would prefer to live in the PNW and will be applying to UW/Hastings/Davis/Irvine but UW is very hard to get into as a transfer and Hastings and Davis are out-of-this-world expensive w/ this whole tuition increase thing.

Don't transfer to Hastings or Davis A'nold.

See, this is what I'm really trying to figure out. Is this b/c of the CA market and tuition (two very good reasons to avoid these schools, I know)? It's just that our preferred market would be either the PNW or CA........so I just assumed these were more logical choices for that reason. However, I am to the point where I just want to go where I have the best chance of landing a job, preferrably in prosecution, but really, just a freaking job, haha.

[A'nold]

UNC! UNC! Sorry. Emory is number 1 in Atlanta. The other schools aren't the number ones in their markets. Although, I suppose you still have to contend with Vanderbilt, UVA, etc in ATL. Also, it is a "school on the rise" they throw scholarship money at students in ridiculous amounts, which is boosting it through the rankings. I have heard really shitty things about WUSTL. Namely that they are fudging their employment numbers by absurd amounts. And ND gets no love from anyone, ever. It's known as a religious school and I have never met anyone to ever attend it.

Umm, he's transferring so he will not get scholarship money. UNC only takes a very limited number of transfers and they want a compelling reason to be in NC, which it doesn't appear A'nold has. I'm not sure if you understand the transfer process.

Anyway, A'nold I think you are going to be surprised with these next two classes, and still get into the T14. Also, why not UCLA or USC? (though I admittedly don't know much about how many transfers they take/whether they take people from T4 schools). Beyond that, I would investigate the markets you are interested in, see which schools the prosecutor offices recruit at, etc. Good luck.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I'm definitely going to hit up UCLA and USC, it's just that those two schools are probably going to be reach/targets now instead of just targets and the other schools I listed were more of the target/safety kind of schools. I appreciate your post.

[megaTTTron]

I like the thought here, but A'nold you are going to apply to the entire t14. Have you forgotten about me completely?!?! Anything can happen. Do not lose hope.

Okay, that's all, back to constructive advice.

[romothesavior]

A'nold, how many are in your class? You say 110-140... so what is it? If there are 130-140, couldn't you still be top 5% in your class? I would think you'd have good T14 chances with that. And like megatttron said, DEFINITELY scatter the T14! You'd at least have a decent shot.

[Paichka]

I'm at GW now and I love it. The nice thing about our area in general is that we're at the intersection of essentially three (more if you count federal, but go with me here) jurisdictions. If you want to be a prosecutor, you can apply to the DA offices in Northern Virginia and Maryland as well as DC. A friend of mine is doing his summer internship with an office in Baltimore...he's working drug crimes, and hoping to move over to the gang task force later this summer. Anyhoo, that's my little plug for my school.

Emory would also be amazing, I think -- they were definitely up there on my list when I was applying. And the T14...you never know what could happen.

[A'nold]

Thanks MegaTTTron, Romo, and Paichka. Do you guys really think a top 6-7% t3 student has any chance at a t14? That's not rhetorical, I really do wonder what everyone thinks. It's kind of like the unknown abyss area for a t3'er, haha.

[romothesavior]

Thanks MegaTTTron, Romo, and Paichka. Do you guys really think a top 6-7% t3 student has any chance at a t14? That's not rhetorical, I really do wonder what everyone thinks. It's kind of like the unknown abyss area for a t3'er, haha.

Well again, it depends on how many students you have in your class. And if those two unknown grades are good, then you could be even higher in your class. I honestly don't have nearly the knowledge of transfer apps that you do, but from the anecdotal stuff I hear on here, I think you have a shot in the 6-7% range.

[Paichka]

Thanks MegaTTTron, Romo, and Paichka. Do you guys really think a top 6-7% t3 student has any chance at a t14? That's not rhetorical, I really do wonder what everyone thinks. It's kind of like the unknown abyss area for a t3'er, haha.

Honestly? I have no idea. I mean, if top 6-7% means you're in the top single digits, and you can get some walk-on-water LORs, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't blanket at least the lower T14. If that's what you want, give it a shot. It can't hurt anything, can it?

[megaTTTron]

Thanks MegaTTTron, Romo, and Paichka. Do you guys really think a top 6-7% t3 student has any chance at a t14? That's not rhetorical, I really do wonder what everyone thinks. It's kind of like the unknown abyss area for a t3'er, haha.

First of all, A'nold, you can call me Mega.

Second, according to Arrow's Transfer thread:

To transfer into the T14 you need:
-top 10-15% at T1, top 5-10% for CCN
-top 5-10% at a T2, top 5% for CCN
-top 1-2% at a T3/T4


To transfer into the T1 you need:
-top 10-20% at a T2
-top 5-10% at T3
-top 5% at T4

See http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... e+transfer.

Third, here are the numbers:

1. Yale ~10-12
2. Harvard ~30
3. Stanford ~12 (DarlayBoo, MarkTwain, and jwbayou5 say it is more like 16-20, but it will likely be cut down back to 12)
4. Columbia ~45-60
5. NYU ~45-50 (according to rayiner, it was cut down to 31 this past year)
6. Berkeley ~30-40 (though my transfer class this year looks like there was 50+ people at orientation, even after I subtracted the few visiting students)
6. Chicago ~15-25
8. UPenn ~25
9. Michigan ~30
10. Duke ~12-20
10. Northwestern ~20 according to their website (Law School Numbers says 40)
10. UVA ~35
13. Cornell ~5-10 according to their website (Law School Numbers says 18), though they only receive about 75 applications every year
14. GULC ~100

Other Popular Schools to Transfer To:

15. Texas ~15
15. UCLA ~30-40
17. Vandy ~25
18. USC ~5-10
19. WUSTL ~50
20. Emory ~30
20. Boston University ~5-10

See http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... e+transfer

Finally, even with all that, it's still totally up in the air. A good PS and some killer LORs can go a long way. If you read some of the Dean interviews, it seems that the transfer apps get MUCH more attention. Keep that in mind.

Word.

[SwollenMonkey]

Alright, here's the situation: It is not final yet, but I will likely be in the 5-10% range at a t3. I hate my ghetto school and really, REALLY want to go somewhere less ghetto. There are t3 schools out there that are respectable, but that is not my school.

Congrats on your accomplishment, and I wish you the best on your grades. I've been reading your posts, and you have presented yourself as a straight shooter with good advice. There is a transfer group on yahoo that may be on some service.

I'm posting to watch this thread for further developments. Hope you get into a T14!

[Attucks]

I hate my ghetto school and really, REALLY want to go somewhere less ghetto. There are t3 schools out there that are respectable, but that is not my school.

I am once again focusing solely on prosecution. I am looking for a good regional school in a not completely saturated area (no D.C., N.Y., L.A.) where one has a good shot of landing some kind of prosecutor job SOMEWHERE

This is a less than ideal situation. Keeping the grades at your current school would almost certainly net you more scholarship money, if you're not already there on a full ride and you can leverage it properly. If your interest is truly public interest/prosecution, that's certainly within reach with those grades where you're at now. There's no possible way I'd ever go to USC, as a transfer, i.e. with no scholarship at $40,000/year in tuition alone to become a prosecutor when I graduate. If it comes down to wanting to be anywhere else, then I'm in support of a move, but only if that's the case.

[ggocat]

Do you guys really think a top 6-7% t3 student has any chance at a t14?

Yes.

What are your costs of transferring ($$$, moot court, law review, etc.)?

[Bankhead]

I would transfer into a school in a market where you would be content working, or stay where you are

For example, Emory if you want to work in Atlanta.

I would wait until you have your last grades before making a decision on where, if anywhere, to apply though. You could go back up.

[A'nold]

I hate my ghetto school and really, REALLY want to go somewhere less ghetto. There are t3 schools out there that are respectable, but that is not my school.

I am once again focusing solely on prosecution. I am looking for a good regional school in a not completely saturated area (no D.C., N.Y., L.A.) where one has a good shot of landing some kind of prosecutor job SOMEWHERE

This is a less than ideal situation. Keeping the grades at your current school would almost certainly net you more scholarship money, if you're not already there on a full ride and you can leverage it properly. If your interest is truly public interest/prosecution, that's certainly within reach with those grades where you're at now. There's no possible way I'd ever go to USC, as a transfer, i.e. with no scholarship at $40,000/year in tuition alone to become a prosecutor when I graduate. If it comes down to wanting to be anywhere else, then I'm in support of a move, but only if that's the case.

Thanks to everyone.

Attucks: I would normally agree with you, but to give you some more personal background, I would only be increasing my tuition bill by about 27% in attending any school at sticker. When I say that my school is ghetto I really mean it. I would feel scared to graduate from here even at the very top of the class, though maybe if I was the #1 student I'd take the risk and stay. Top 6-7% is no guarantee for a job here, although you might be right about the prosecutor thing......but it is just SUCH an iffy school. I can't get into all of the details, but let's just say that one of the reasons my grade went down in one class is (and I would not blame professors for grades normally) due to the extremely poor quality of some of the professors at my school.

Anyway, I will be using IBR to make up the 27% difference in cost. I mean, don't you think going to a school like Emory would be better than being top 7% at a TTT if it only costs you 1/4 more overall?

[Bankhead]

Yeah, I feel that grades can be really, really random sometimes (some people will disagree with me, but then again they also bitch that their low grades were due to certain professors they had and if they had other profs it would have been different). Like it depends what the prof. ate for breakfast before he/she graded your exam. That being said, I guess that is due preparation for the legal profession itself -- when judges can be loose cannons themselves.