What is your floor? Forum

[charlesjd]

I wouldn't go below USC/UCLA with the exception of mayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyybe UIUC at in-state tuition. Maybe.

HAHAAHHAA... in-state. Sorry I just had to laugh at the UIUC in-state tuition price.

[Kohinoor]

I think highly doubtful you'd get something at OCI from one of those schools. Even at T14, only 50-50 odds.

Yeah, totally agree. Then I wonder what the long term significance of a degree from one of these schools vs. my t3 would be, even in like government jobs. Hmmm......hopefully I get into GULC EA!

While TLS focuses exclusively on the first year of work, there are decades after that where a nice name on your resume can really really really help your chances.

[A'nold]

I think highly doubtful you'd get something at OCI from one of those schools. Even at T14, only 50-50 odds.

Yeah, totally agree. Then I wonder what the long term significance of a degree from one of these schools vs. my t3 would be, even in like government jobs. Hmmm......hopefully I get into GULC EA!

While TLS focuses exclusively on the first year of work, there are decades after that where a nice name on your resume can really really really help your chances.

See, that's what I'm wondering. It seems like pretty much consensus around here that being at the top of your class from a lower ranked school is better than getting like an Emory degree without a firm OCI job and that you will be living in GA the rest of your life. I would love to go to a more reputable school that I could really be proud graduating from but don't want to risk my families future.

[xferAlt]

I don't get the whole SMU/UH thing compared to being top 5% at another t2. Also, couldn't you have gotten in on the first try at those schools?

The T2 is outside the somewhat insulated markets of Dallas and Austin, where I have family ties and would like to practice post-commission. SMU because it owns the Dallas market, UofH because I could get in-state tuition.

Also, because I'm from another state, firms in my market are hesitant to (won't?) hire me, due to the, admittedly legitimate, fear that I will milk them for a summer's worth of resources and then jet back. But at top 5% (in a school where top 15% are getting 1L SA positions), I got no-offered at all six callback interviews, despite expressing a genuine interest in both the firms and the town they're located in. Two admitted they weren't extending an offer because I couldn't 'demonstrate family ties to the area,' notwithstanding the fact that I chose to go to law school in their state.

/rant

[A'nold]

I don't get the whole SMU/UH thing compared to being top 5% at another t2. Also, couldn't you have gotten in on the first try at those schools?

The T2 is outside the somewhat insulated markets of Dallas and Austin, where I have family ties and would like to practice post-commission. SMU because it owns the Dallas market, UofH because I could get in-state tuition.

Also, because I'm from another state, firms in my market are hesitant to (won't?) hire me, due to the, admittedly legitimate, fear that I will milk them for a summer's worth of resources and then jet back. But at top 5% (in a school where top 15% are getting 1L SA positions), I got no-offered at all six callback interviews, despite expressing a genuine interest in both the firms and the town they're located in. Two admitted they weren't extending an offer because I couldn't 'demonstrate family ties to the area,' notwithstanding the fact that I chose to go to law school in their state.

/rant

Yeah but man, giving up top 5% and LR? I understand UT, not really SMU or especially UH.....are you feeling homesick or something?

[upgrade]

Also, because I'm from another state, firms in my market are hesitant to (won't?) hire me, due to the, admittedly legitimate, fear that I will milk them for a summer's worth of resources and then jet back. But at top 5% (in a school where top 15% are getting 1L SA positions), I got no-offered at all six callback interviews, despite expressing a genuine interest in both the firms and the town they're located in. Two admitted they weren't extending an offer because I couldn't 'demonstrate family ties to the area,' notwithstanding the fact that I chose to go to law school in their state.

/rant

Similar situation I was faced with last year. I would not base any decision to move on that fact that you did not get a 1L summer position with a firm, regardless of your grades.

Moving to any of those schools is a risky proposition.

[xferAlt]

Note: for some reason, I've been called out for selecting regional safety schools.

Yeah but man, giving up top 5% and LR? I understand UT, not really SMU or especially UH.....are you feeling homesick or something?

Similar situation I was faced with last year. I would not base any decision to move on that fact that you did not get a 1L summer position with a firm, regardless of your grades.

Moving to any of those schools is a risky proposition.

Haha...I'm hardly homesick. I just picked a good school for a few of the wrong reasons. Had they been cheaper (alternatively, had I been sure I would be good at this whole lawl skool thing) I probably would have gone to UofH or SMU this year. Instead, I went with the cheapest-best school combo and don't regret my decision. Fortunately, I did well here and am looking to get back to the region I prefer. This leaves me in position to transfer without 1/3 of the debt I would have taken on at one of those schools for this year.

UT, which accepts very few transfer students per year, rejected me outright for my 1L year. Their website claims you must have been in contention to be admitted your first year to transfer. I still plan on applying, but the next best school in TX is SMU, alternatively UofH for in-state tuition.

And it's more complicated than just getting no-offered as a 1L. I realize in this economy students from T2s rarely get paid summer work and I still have good non-paid offers (US-A, JAG, DA's offices, judicial clerkships, etc.) that should lead to paid work next summer. But statistically, top-5% plus LR from my current school just isn't going to land the jobs in those markets that top 25% at one of the other schools will. Besides, both SMU and UH allow transfer students to write-on to LR.

Normally, I wouldn't advocate transferring to a school just so you can move up 10-20 spots on an admittedly skewed rankings system, but with 100% job security it's a risk I'm willing to take, should I not get admitted to GULC or UT. At worst case, I'm in the market I prefer with a regionally recognized degree, and the Air Force picks up the student loan tab.

Edit: grammar

[upgrade]

UT, which accepts very few transfer students per year, rejected me outright for my 1L year. Their website claims you must have been in contention to be admitted your first year to transfer.

I don't think this is true, at least not to the extent that most people consider "in contention" to mean "competitive for admission." Most schools say something similar, but none that I have had any dealing with actually meant that you had to be competitive for admission. There was 0 chance that I would have been admitted to any of the schools that accepted me as a transfer, Texas being one of them.

And it's more complicated than just getting no-offered as a 1L. I realize in this economy students from T2s rarely get paid summer work and I still have good non-paid offers (US-A, JAG, DA's offices, judicial clerkships, etc.) that should lead to paid work next summer. But statistically, top-5% plus LR from my current school just isn't going to land the jobs in those markets that top 25% at one of the other schools will. Besides, both SMU and UH allow transfer students to write-on to LR.

It is probably unlikely that employers at UT OCI will consider you as a UT student in the top 25% of the class. Perhaps they will give you more credit when comparing you to SMU and UH students. Does 25% of the class at SMU and UH land big firm jobs?

Normally, I wouldn't advocate transferring to a school just so you can move up 10-20 spots on an admittedly skewed rankings system, but with 100% job security it's a risk I'm willing to take, should I not get admitted to GULC or UT. At worst case, I'm in the market I prefer with a regionally recognized degree, and the Air Force picks up the student loan tab.

If you are top 5% at a T2, you should be looking at schools higher up than GULC and UT.

[Journeybound]

I'm still confused about what my possibilities are. As a top 2% student at a mid T2, do I have a legitimate chance at a T6? for some reason I feel like GULC is my best shot, and that anything else would be "luck". Is this assumption incorrect? It all seems like its too subjective to make any accurate guesses. Maybe this is why everyone applying to so many schools.

[xferAlt]

I don't think this is true, at least not to the extent that most people consider "in contention" to mean "competitive for admission." Most schools say something similar, but none that I have had any dealing with actually meant that you had to be competitive for admission. There was 0 chance that I would have been admitted to any of the schools that accepted me as a transfer, Texas being one of them.

I've heard most people say something similar, but I've heard (anecdotally, of course) UT is one of the few who actually mean it. Were you accepted at UT? (Legit question, no malice intended.)

It is probably unlikely that employers at UT OCI will consider you as a UT student in the top 25% of the class. Perhaps they will give you more credit when comparing you to SMU and UH students. Does 25% of the class at SMU and UH land big firm jobs?

That would depend on your definition of big firm jobs. Do they land firm jobs? Yes. Are they AmLaw 100 or NLJ250? Not nearly a 'lock', but that's not what I'm shooting for.

If you are top 5% at a T2, you should be looking at schools higher up than GULC and UT.

GULC and UT are the only two would attend out of the T14. (Aside from UVa, but I'm not a Va. resident. My understanding is that door is likely closed.) Like Journeybound, I too am similarly positioned and interested in how high you think I could legitimately expect to climb.

[upgrade]

I'm still confused about what my possibilities are. As a top 2% student at a mid T2, do I have a legitimate chance at a T6? for some reason I feel like GULC is my best shot, and that anything else would be "luck". Is this assumption incorrect? It all seems like its too subjective to make any accurate guesses. Maybe this is why everyone applying to so many schools.

My 1L school was ranked about 65, my grades put me in the top 3%, and I was accepted at more than one T6 school. It may have been luck, but it's a realistic shot for you, I would think.

I would make sure to get to know profs well and show them you are proactive about law school. If there was anything about my application that came across well it was probably that each of the profs who wrote letters knew me reasonably well.

[phishskier41]

I have been wondering what school would be my floor if accepted, in order to give up a decent scholarship and probable law review for the pros/cons of transferring. I am estimated somewhere between just inside the top 10% or just outside the top 10% so I know that my spring grades have a huge impact on the schools I could be accepted to. Being at a lower T2 in a larger market what would you floor be:

GW
Emory
UNC
William and Mary
T14 or bust

Good luck to all those planning to transfer!

[upgrade]

I don't think this is true, at least not to the extent that most people consider "in contention" to mean "competitive for admission." Most schools say something similar, but none that I have had any dealing with actually meant that you had to be competitive for admission. There was 0 chance that I would have been admitted to any of the schools that accepted me as a transfer, Texas being one of them.

I've heard most people say something similar, but I've heard (anecdotally, of course) UT is one of the few who actually mean it. Were you accepted at UT? (Legit question, no malice intended.)

Yes. I don't think UT is any different in this regard. The few people I met prior to deciding to go elsewhere didn't seem like they were 168+ LSAT types.

It is probably unlikely that employers at UT OCI will consider you as a UT student in the top 25% of the class. Perhaps they will give you more credit when comparing you to SMU and UH students. Does 25% of the class at SMU and UH land big firm jobs?

That would depend on your definition of big firm jobs. Do they land firm jobs? Yes. Are they AmLaw 100 or NLJ250? Not nearly a 'lock', but that's not what I'm shooting for.

Alright. That's better than most of my friends in the top 5-10% at a decent T2 in a secondary market have done with finding jobs. A few have firm jobs, but most are still unsure what they're doing.