Military Law

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:27 pm

By the way, Private Messages are now back (along with all my historical messages I thought were lost)!

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howell

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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:Doesn't being an attorney for the government even in the military mean that you have to be apolitical and it's to be expected? Even as a lawyer in general practice, you have to sort of be neutral and look at things from an entirely legal perspective. There are lot of internal things that you see at agencies (harassment, ethics issues etc.) as well that people don't agree with, but people stay and hopefully work towards changing things as reasonably possible.

Otherwise why not just work as an attorney for a Senator or Congressperson; or run for political office and you can really have some say in the law/policy. I'm not attacking you at all for your statement, by the way, and I hope it doesn't come off like that. Just intellectual curiosity. :)

Yes, you need to be able to put your politics aside to do your job at times. At other times, it is inevitable - and maybe desirable - that your politics impact what you do for the government. There are many jobs requiring discretion in what you do, so politics will impact your decisions there, but overall, especially in the military, when you're told to do something, you do that thing in your agency's best interest.

I would hope we all have a threshold for what we can justify to ourselves under the umbrella of "just doing my job." A lot of morally reprehensible things can still be lawful orders. Beyond that, there are some things you didn't sign up to do when you chose to become a government/military attorney. If what you're asked to do changes drastically, you might decide to leave that job.

Regarding staying and trying to change an organization, while that sounds admirable, it's not always the best choice for people. Many people determine they can do more good in the world spending their time in a different capacity.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:43 am

howell wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Doesn't being an attorney for the government even in the military mean that you have to be apolitical and it's to be expected? Even as a lawyer in general practice, you have to sort of be neutral and look at things from an entirely legal perspective. There are lot of internal things that you see at agencies (harassment, ethics issues etc.) as well that people don't agree with, but people stay and hopefully work towards changing things as reasonably possible.

Otherwise why not just work as an attorney for a Senator or Congressperson; or run for political office and you can really have some say in the law/policy. I'm not attacking you at all for your statement, by the way, and I hope it doesn't come off like that. Just intellectual curiosity. :)

Yes, you need to be able to put your politics aside to do your job at times. At other times, it is inevitable - and maybe desirable - that your politics impact what you do for the government. There are many jobs requiring discretion in what you do, so politics will impact your decisions there, but overall, especially in the military, when you're told to do something, you do that thing in your agency's best interest.

I would hope we all have a threshold for what we can justify to ourselves under the umbrella of "just doing my job." A lot of morally reprehensible things can still be lawful orders. Beyond that, there are some things you didn't sign up to do when you chose to become a government/military attorney. If what you're asked to do changes drastically, you might decide to leave that job.

Regarding staying and trying to change an organization, while that sounds admirable, it's not always the best choice for people. Many people determine they can do more good in the world spending their time in a different capacity.


Agreed. I'm not talking about being an attorney/military lawyer for a dictatorship or some insanely corrupt government, though. If it gets that bad, then yeah it may be time to re-think your decisions.

However, at least in the U.S. administrations come and go every 2 to 4 to 8 years, and for me it's important to remember is that the job is to serve the public. I get the sense that U.S. collectively at least tries to progress in spite of differing political beliefs. The U.S. has always been a social experiment in that you have a relatively young country with people of different races, genders, religions, ethnicities, ages, sexual orientations, capabilities etc. living together and attempting to figure out what laws/policy works best for everyone. It has advanced relatively quickly in the grand scheme of things. No other country in the world is like this one regardless of how you feel about it. But that's just my own opinion. I'll get off my soap box for now. :)

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:36 pm

I’m an OYCP cadet who just finished field training about a week ago. I’m excited to start the next phase of my training as a member of the POC, but I have a couple of questions for anyone who did GLP or OYCP:

1) At what point will my Det inform me of my POC job (I know I’ll be assigned something, but have yet to hear what)?

2) when will I receive my first duty assignment (before graduation, after graduation, after passing the bar)?

3) Will it be at all possible to go on AD while I wait for bar results? (I know I won’t be able to go to JASOC until I’m sworn in, but I’m excited to start my career)

Thanks in advance.

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heyarnold

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Re: Military Law

Postby heyarnold » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:44 am

^^ To OYCP Cadet above:

1) You'll most likely receive your POC job when you get back to school and the actual term starts. The wing commander and his/her wing staff is in charge of designating positions.

2) You'll receive your first duty assignment after you swear in / take the oath for the Bar where you are licensed in -- so after you receive your bar results.

3) You won't go AD during the two-three months that you're waiting for results. They can't conceivably make you an intel/contract officer for just a couple months and then switch you into the JAG Corps. You'll just have to be patient. ** Maybe you can find a way to extern and shadow a JAG office close to home for a couple months in a civilian role? But I've never heard anything like that ** Another option is to either fail the bar or refuse taking the bar, contract with the AF after you arrive back in your det as a POC, and go for another career field since you're already contracted for at least 4 years. Up to you haha

USMC Hopeful

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Re: Military Law

Postby USMC Hopeful » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:20 pm

Looks like 288 will be my final PFT before boards next week. Out of my hands now. Really hoping to be in Quantico in September. Will find out in about a week.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:47 pm

Patrick, I have a question about prior drug use. Sorry if this has already been asked, but I understand JAG policy has changed a bit in recent years. Does prior pot use still endanger an application? For example, if I smoked pot a handful of times in undergrad ~5 years ago, what exactly would happen if I admit to that on my application forms? What would happen if I didn't and it was later discovered? Just wondering, haven't actually completed anything yet!

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Patrick, I have a question about prior drug use. Sorry if this has already been asked, but I understand JAG policy has changed a bit in recent years. Does prior pot use still endanger an application? For example, if I smoked pot a handful of times in undergrad ~5 years ago, what exactly would happen if I admit to that on my application forms? What would happen if I didn't and it was later discovered? Just wondering, haven't actually completed anything yet!


I addressed this fairly recently - search my posts and you can see where I weighed in on a similar question.

I've been in the reserves now for close to 4 years, so take this with a grain of salt, but I am not aware of any substantive change in policy regarding drug use. Marijuana is still a Schedule I substance as far as the Feds are concerned, regardless of changing views at the state and societal level.

In that you a law student or a lawyer, you can do your own research on the consequences for making a material misrepresentation on an official military form. To borrow from the ski instructor in South Park, you're gonna have a bad time.

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:17 pm

For the AF types - dress and appearance reg has been updated with guidance on OCP implementation.

http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/produ ... 6-2903.pdf

XOctavianX

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Re: Military Law

Postby XOctavianX » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:25 am

Just a brief update, I heard back from JARO last week confirming that they are concurring with the medical DQ (strabismus). Now I am going to make some eye appointments (including tracking down the doctor who did my exam) and see if they would be willing to submit a report that my condition should not affect me for my waiver request. I'll let you all know how it goes.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:11 pm

For Army Reserve hiring, does how early you submit your application after the applications open in August impact how quickly you will hear back (and therefore, whether you will be slated for an earlier or later JAOBC start)? In other words, are applications considered on a rolling basis?



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