Military Law

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 16, 2018 10:16 am

Patrick Bateman wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I've been picked up for OYCP and was hoping I'd be able to get stationed somewhere in Europe after graduation.


There are folks that have been serving for years that are hoping to get stationed somewhere in USAFE. There are more bases, and more positions, CONUS - it is as simple as that. And then factor in that more people are going to request assignments to geographically desirable locations - you can't escape the math.

Anonymous User wrote:Even assuming my dream sheet consisted of all oversea bases?


:roll:

I'm sure the assignments officer at JAX might get a good chuckle at your attempt to hack the Kobayashi Maru for your first duty station, and then consider if you would be a good fit for Altus. Seriously - if folks could end up somewhere nice simply by only listing nice places on their dream sheet, you would have the entire JAG corps fighting for office space at Aviano and Hickam, while the Wing Commanders at Cannon and Minot were wondering why not one was picking up the phone at Legal.

Backload wrote:Eventually some first assignment Captain gets stationed at Ramstein. I wouldn’t bank on it as most put it on their dream sheet, but it’s a slight possibility.


At the end of the day, this is the answer. Feel free to ask but keep your expectations in check. Good friends from my JASOC class ended up in USAFE/PACAF for their first assignments - most of us, however, didn't. And I can tell you for sure that my second assignment was no where at all on my dream sheet. That's just how it works. JAX giveth and JAX taketh away. The needs of the Air Force always come first and you will be an extremely fungible new JAG.

Backload wrote:First assignment you will be in Maxwell for just over two months, and you will be figuring out your new job. It definitely depends on the base, but I don’t think certain overseas bases are that great for first assignment Captains. You want to be able to enjoy the overseas and not stuck learning the job.


Also a very valid consideration.


Original anon here. Thanks for the insight. I'd love some overseas base, but at the end of the day I'm committed to the AF and would gladly go wherever needed. But who doesn't have a preference? A man can dream. :lol:

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed May 16, 2018 2:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote: Original anon here. Thanks for the insight. I'd love some overseas base, but at the end of the day I'm committed to the AF and would gladly go wherever needed. But who doesn't have a preference? A man can dream. :lol:


Good luck - as noted by Wayne Gretzky and Michael Scott, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

Something beyond the scope of your original question but an issue I like to flag every now and then for the new folks. This is a Patrick Bateman soapbox sort of issue. Depending on what your goals are for the JAG Corps, geography generally should not be the basis by which you rank your assignments. If you are looking to do 4-8 years and then lateral into a civilian gig, you should be thinking about assignments that build you a subject matter expertise that will make you marketable. Same goes for those thinking about a longer term career - the goal should be positions that make you promotable like ACSC and DSJA/SJA.

This is been talked to death over the years: if you want to be an AUSA or Main Justice attorney, your goals should be ADC and then STC/SDC/Appellate -- where those positions are located is far less important than the experience you get. Same goes for civil law practice areas like medical law or information litigation - find the path that gets you that practice within AFLOA.

Sometimes stars align and you get the right job at a great location. Other times you have to decide what is more important. My very first dream sheet, before I got on AD, was all awesome locations, with no mind to if those bases would give me the military justice experience I truly wanted. Patrick AFB is a pretty great location but not exactly a lot of courts happening any given year. I thankfully got a vector check from a retired GO JAG that got me thinking the right way.

So just something for all you new folks to consider. Weigh all the variables carefully. Geography can be a siren song at times - be careful not to end up on the rocks at the expense of your longer term career.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 16, 2018 4:08 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: Original anon here. Thanks for the insight. I'd love some overseas base, but at the end of the day I'm committed to the AF and would gladly go wherever needed. But who doesn't have a preference? A man can dream. :lol:


Good luck - as noted by Wayne Gretzky and Michael Scott, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

Something beyond the scope of your original question but an issue I like to flag every now and then for the new folks. This is a Patrick Bateman soapbox sort of issue. Depending on what your goals are for the JAG Corps, geography generally should not be the basis by which you rank your assignments. If you are looking to do 4-8 years and then lateral into a civilian gig, you should be thinking about assignments that build you a subject matter expertise that will make you marketable. Same goes for those thinking about a longer term career - the goal should be positions that make you promotable like ACSC and DSJA/SJA.

This is been talked to death over the years: if you want to be an AUSA or Main Justice attorney, your goals should be ADC and then STC/SDC/Appellate -- where those positions are located is far less important than the experience you get. Same goes for civil law practice areas like medical law or information litigation - find the path that gets you that practice within AFLOA.

Sometimes stars align and you get the right job at a great location. Other times you have to decide what is more important. My very first dream sheet, before I got on AD, was all awesome locations, with no mind to if those bases would give me the military justice experience I truly wanted. Patrick AFB is a pretty great location but not exactly a lot of courts happening any given year. I thankfully got a vector check from a retired GO JAG that got me thinking the right way.

So just something for all you new folks to consider. Weigh all the variables carefully. Geography can be a siren song at times - be careful not to end up on the rocks at the expense of your longer term career.


What about those of us who want to be long-term Jags and continue to rank up? Should we building up our expertise in litigation or all fields? Thanks.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 16, 2018 5:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Nuts.

Dear Applicant,

The Air Force Judge Advocate General's Corps Accessions Screening Board carefully considered your application for the Direct Appointment Program.  Unfortunately, you were not selected this round.


Sorry to hear. You should apply for the next board, though.

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Wed May 16, 2018 9:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote: What about those of us who want to be long-term Jags and continue to rank up? Should we building up our expertise in litigation or all fields? Thanks.


This is also a good question. I honestly started this post with the whole Maj Pat Bateman theory on promotion when I realized I am a relatively junior reserve Maj that does not actually know the right answer. Most of what I post on are either educated guesses based on experience or hard lessons learned from experience.

So let me start again.

If you are just beginning your career, don't worry about this just yet. As I have said before, saw the wood that is in front of you. I did a pretty detailed post a while back on the first 4+ years - read that along with my other ones on career progression. Your first two assignments are likely at base legal. Following that you will likely get a specialty job within AFLOA, a staff position at a NAF, or the handful of captain level DSJA slots (Goodfellow, Kunsan, etc). So that basically takes you to putting on Major, assuming you followed the basic commandment of "don't suck." That really just boils down to not getting into the obvious forms of trouble (DUI, frat, being cute/real dumb with claimed travel/moving expenses, etc) and getting decent OPRs*.

*Your OPRs, from the first one on, matter. Learn from your leadership how bullets are written and how and why certain bullets matter. Be proactive in making a good OPR, from things that make good bullets to being proactive in the drafting process. Decent OPRs that help you survive the pulse check that are the majors boards may not help you make the cut for O-5.

From my limited perspective, for those looking to set themselves up for O-5 need to be a DSJA as a Maj. In the recent years, most of those passed over camped out in various AFLOA or other staff positions for way too long and failed to get a base level leadership job. If promotion is important to you, be a Deputy. As other AFJAG posters have commented on, we do not advance specialists - we advance generalists and leaders. So, to advance, you will have to be a generalist and a leader. That means helping lead, at first, wing legal offices. And also, continue not to suck. In Residence ACSC or other IDE also tends to help with the right assignments and tend promote very well.

I am not going to weigh in beyond O-5 selection, as it is just a combination of RUMINT and my half-baked speculation.

Just one perspective. Take it with a grain of salt. Good luck.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu May 17, 2018 11:26 am

I would also check out the discussion here re: career progression thoughts. Howell has some great insight and you can see that I have appropriated his "don't suck" mantra as a succinct way to summarize keeping one's house in order as a CGO.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=31543&p=10304450#p10304394

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 17, 2018 4:43 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: What about those of us who want to be long-term Jags and continue to rank up? Should we building up our expertise in litigation or all fields? Thanks.


This is also a good question. I honestly started this post with the whole Maj Pat Bateman theory on promotion when I realized I am a relatively junior reserve Maj that does not actually know the right answer. Most of what I post on are either educated guesses based on experience or hard lessons learned from experience.

So let me start again.

If you are just beginning your career, don't worry about this just yet. As I have said before, saw the wood that is in front of you. I did a pretty detailed post a while back on the first 4+ years - read that along with my other ones on career progression. Your first two assignments are likely at base legal. Following that you will likely get a specialty job within AFLOA, a staff position at a NAF, or the handful of captain level DSJA slots (Goodfellow, Kunsan, etc). So that basically takes you to putting on Major, assuming you followed the basic commandment of "don't suck." That really just boils down to not getting into the obvious forms of trouble (DUI, frat, being cute/real dumb with claimed travel/moving expenses, etc) and getting decent OPRs*.

*Your OPRs, from the first one on, matter. Learn from your leadership how bullets are written and how and why certain bullets matter. Be proactive in making a good OPR, from things that make good bullets to being proactive in the drafting process. Decent OPRs that help you survive the pulse check that are the majors boards may not help you make the cut for O-5.

From my limited perspective, for those looking to set themselves up for O-5 need to be a DSJA as a Maj. In the recent years, most of those passed over camped out in various AFLOA or other staff positions for way too long and failed to get a base level leadership job. If promotion is important to you, be a Deputy. As other AFJAG posters have commented on, we do not advance specialists - we advance generalists and leaders. So, to advance, you will have to be a generalist and a leader. That means helping lead, at first, wing legal offices. And also, continue not to suck. In Residence ACSC or other IDE also tends to help with the right assignments and tend promote very well.

I am not going to weigh in beyond O-5 selection, as it is just a combination of RUMINT and my half-baked speculation.

Just one perspective. Take it with a grain of salt. Good luck.


Thanks! This is very good information to know.

Backload

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Re: Military Law

Postby Backload » Fri May 18, 2018 8:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: What about those of us who want to be long-term Jags and continue to rank up? Should we building up our expertise in litigation or all fields? Thanks.


This is also a good question. I honestly started this post with the whole Maj Pat Bateman theory on promotion when I realized I am a relatively junior reserve Maj that does not actually know the right answer. Most of what I post on are either educated guesses based on experience or hard lessons learned from experience.

So let me start again.

If you are just beginning your career, don't worry about this just yet. As I have said before, saw the wood that is in front of you. I did a pretty detailed post a while back on the first 4+ years - read that along with my other ones on career progression. Your first two assignments are likely at base legal. Following that you will likely get a specialty job within AFLOA, a staff position at a NAF, or the handful of captain level DSJA slots (Goodfellow, Kunsan, etc). So that basically takes you to putting on Major, assuming you followed the basic commandment of "don't suck." That really just boils down to not getting into the obvious forms of trouble (DUI, frat, being cute/real dumb with claimed travel/moving expenses, etc) and getting decent OPRs*.

*Your OPRs, from the first one on, matter. Learn from your leadership how bullets are written and how and why certain bullets matter. Be proactive in making a good OPR, from things that make good bullets to being proactive in the drafting process. Decent OPRs that help you survive the pulse check that are the majors boards may not help you make the cut for O-5.

From my limited perspective, for those looking to set themselves up for O-5 need to be a DSJA as a Maj. In the recent years, most of those passed over camped out in various AFLOA or other staff positions for way too long and failed to get a base level leadership job. If promotion is important to you, be a Deputy. As other AFJAG posters have commented on, we do not advance specialists - we advance generalists and leaders. So, to advance, you will have to be a generalist and a leader. That means helping lead, at first, wing legal offices. And also, continue not to suck. In Residence ACSC or other IDE also tends to help with the right assignments and tend promote very well.

I am not going to weigh in beyond O-5 selection, as it is just a combination of RUMINT and my half-baked speculation.

Just one perspective. Take it with a grain of salt. Good luck.



Thanks! This is very good information to know.


This is all great info; more than I can provide. One thing to keep in mind is when you are meeting boards, it is not other jags looking at your career. It is a variety of careers across the Air Force. So they want to see a well-rounded officer with demonstrated leadership abilities. That is why deputy positions or even exec positions I think are key.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 22, 2018 9:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone selected by army in dec heard anything at all from JARO?????



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