Military Law Forum
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Re: Military Law
Have any of the most recent reserve component Army JAG selectees received word about a medical waiver decision yet? I submitted my paperwork a while ago and have not heard back yet. Any idea about how long it takes to get a decision? Thanks!
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Re: Military Law
No word yet.Anonymous User wrote:Have any of the most recent reserve component Army JAG selectees received word about a medical waiver decision yet? I submitted my paperwork a while ago and have not heard back yet. Any idea about how long it takes to get a decision? Thanks!
- howell
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Re: Military Law
I'll tackle a couple of your questions.
Another reason to get to the limit by the interview is that it is best if the SJA can say "Mr. Snuffy is ready to go NOW and I would love to have him working for me ASAP." It says much more if you can meet all the requirements at the time of the interview, and no one has to bet on you actually improving before you leave for officer training. For example, if you can conduct a mock PT test and let the SJA know your score, that's better than "I'm running and doing some push-ups."
Depending on the timing, you might not get to the limit by the time of the interview. If you're not quite there, I would definitely tell your weight loss story. If you've overweight, you want the SJA to be able to speak to WHY she believes you will definitely meet the requirement in time. Be able to explain in detail what you've been doing (running, dieting, etc.) and know when you expect to be within regs. I don't think anyone will say, "Well, he let himself go before he ever decided to become a JAG; we better not select him." A LOT of people have weight loss stories. I think it's a positive. It shows dedication once you started thinking you might want to be a JAG.
I wouldn't let the lack of "connections at a higher level" stop you from applying to anything in the JAG world. I think most boards would rather see high-quality letters than a letter from a Congressman who shook your hand once.
I think junior officers are fine, especially if they're mixed in with professors, supervisors, etc. Just make sure they can speak to the qualities that would make you a good officer. That might be tougher with a friend who hasn't known you in a professional context, but, on the other hand, he/she might be able to show entirely different qualities that would be beneficial.
And your previous supervisor who was a retired E-8 sounds really good to me. I would expect someone with his/her experience could sniff out an awful officer candidate in a heartbeat.
Get down to the height/weight requirement before the interview if at all possible. Or at least by the time you have to turn in your height and weight on a form during the application process. I was over the limit by ~15 pounds, and I think that alone prevented me from being picked up during my first two DAP boards. The SJAs I interviewed with were shocked I didn't get picked up and couldn't point to anything else that might have prevented me from being selected. I dropped to the weight requirement and got picked up at the very next board.RoddyAA wrote:
Additionally, I am in the process of getting into shape, but it has been a long road for me. I have always been an athlete, although not at an elite level. I was a three sport athlete in high school (a long time ago) and played in an adult baseball league until I left for law school last year. While I was always somewhat overweight, I got up as high as 285 after my first semester of law school when I decided that JAG was the career choice for me. Over the past 5-6 months I have lost about 40 pounds and have a goal of weighing 196 as that is my "height/weight standard" for the services (this means I'm about halfway to my goal). Assuming that I am relatively close to my goal by the time I have my interviews with the SJA's, do you think it would be advisable to tell them about my total weight loss? I can see it cutting either way: it could potentially show my dedication to JAG that I would commit to a transformation (90 pounds lost in a year) in order to qualify, but I could also see it as a negative to admit that I had allowed my physical fitness to get so out of hand that I was pushing 300lbs as a law student.
Another reason to get to the limit by the interview is that it is best if the SJA can say "Mr. Snuffy is ready to go NOW and I would love to have him working for me ASAP." It says much more if you can meet all the requirements at the time of the interview, and no one has to bet on you actually improving before you leave for officer training. For example, if you can conduct a mock PT test and let the SJA know your score, that's better than "I'm running and doing some push-ups."
Depending on the timing, you might not get to the limit by the time of the interview. If you're not quite there, I would definitely tell your weight loss story. If you've overweight, you want the SJA to be able to speak to WHY she believes you will definitely meet the requirement in time. Be able to explain in detail what you've been doing (running, dieting, etc.) and know when you expect to be within regs. I don't think anyone will say, "Well, he let himself go before he ever decided to become a JAG; we better not select him." A LOT of people have weight loss stories. I think it's a positive. It shows dedication once you started thinking you might want to be a JAG.
The people you listed in your first sentence are all great. The more they can truly speak to their specific interactions with you, the better. Just my opinion, but having letters from a variety of sources can likely show more about you than just 5 professors or 5 supervisors.RoddyAA wrote:Finally, I have begun to think about who I can ask for LOR's and I am going to ask my crim professor, my supervisor when I was interning in Congress, and probably my current supervisor as well, or if not him I will try to get a LOR from the judge I will be working with this Winter. My question though is about soliciting LOR's from more junior officers. I know it has been discussed that the higher the rank the better the letter, but I don't really have any connections at a higher level (maybe this is a reason I should apply for the internship instead of OYCP?) other than a friend of a friend who just made O-6 and has been very helpful with advice through the process. I have a very close law school friend who is an Army Airborne O-3, a HS friend I reconnected with a couple of years ago who is an O-3 in the 82nd Airborne, and a former colleague who got promoted to my supervisor at a previous job who retired after 20 years in the Navy as an E-8. Would it make sense to ask any of these people to write a letter if they can speak to my fitness to be an officer, or would it be better to max out professors and supervisors who might be able to write letters about my academics, etc.?
I wouldn't let the lack of "connections at a higher level" stop you from applying to anything in the JAG world. I think most boards would rather see high-quality letters than a letter from a Congressman who shook your hand once.
I think junior officers are fine, especially if they're mixed in with professors, supervisors, etc. Just make sure they can speak to the qualities that would make you a good officer. That might be tougher with a friend who hasn't known you in a professional context, but, on the other hand, he/she might be able to show entirely different qualities that would be beneficial.
And your previous supervisor who was a retired E-8 sounds really good to me. I would expect someone with his/her experience could sniff out an awful officer candidate in a heartbeat.
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Re: Military Law
So seems like Army encourages their JAGs to attend courses like Airborne, Air Assault, etc. if there is space and the JAGs are interested of course. Any similar opportunities or schools offered in the AF or Navy that JAGs can attend?
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Re: Military Law
Lol No for Navy. No cool schools or classes. You aren't allowed in the court room for two years either!Anonymous User wrote:So seems like Army encourages their JAGs to attend courses like Airborne, Air Assault, etc. if there is space and the JAGs are interested of course. Any similar opportunities or schools offered in the AF or Navy that JAGs can attend?
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- TwoRoads
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Re: Military Law
Does anyone have experience with lower back pain/SI joint pain/sciatica and a history of that in relation to medical qualifications/MEPS? Is this an issue? If so, is it waiverable?
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Re: Military Law
The Air Force allows some JAs to go to the Air Command and Staff College at Maxwell.Anonymous User wrote:Lol No for Navy. No cool schools or classes. You aren't allowed in the court room for two years either!Anonymous User wrote:So seems like Army encourages their JAGs to attend courses like Airborne, Air Assault, etc. if there is space and the JAGs are interested of course. Any similar opportunities or schools offered in the AF or Navy that JAGs can attend?
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Re: Military Law
Thanks to everyone on this board for the amazing content! It played a huge role in deciding to pursue JAG and I give you guys a lot of credit for my Navy PR. I’ve read the whole thread, but it’s been awhile so please forgive me if this has been more thoroughly discussed than I remember.
A few people on here mentioned taking a random state’s bar to get results sooner, is there any down side to this I’m missing? I’ve done a decent amount of research, but would appreciate TLS confirmation that I’m not setting myself up for huge regret in a few years. The state I'm considering releases first week of September and does not have an in-person C&F interview, so I should only need to travel there for the actual bar. It's not UBE, but based on the below I don't think that should matter if I stay in 6 years. Also, most UBE states won't accept transferred scores over 3 years old, so it would only help in a small handful of states if I do happen to get out at 4.
My current state is one of the last to release results, but is one of the many states that has an option to be admitted without retaking the exam if you’ve been practicing 5 out of the last 7 years. The plan is to stay in at least 6 years, so am I correct in my understanding that it will generally just be few forms and an application fee to be admitted in states with this type of arrangement? Have any former JAGs had issues with this or advice on strategically choosing a state? Thanks!
A few people on here mentioned taking a random state’s bar to get results sooner, is there any down side to this I’m missing? I’ve done a decent amount of research, but would appreciate TLS confirmation that I’m not setting myself up for huge regret in a few years. The state I'm considering releases first week of September and does not have an in-person C&F interview, so I should only need to travel there for the actual bar. It's not UBE, but based on the below I don't think that should matter if I stay in 6 years. Also, most UBE states won't accept transferred scores over 3 years old, so it would only help in a small handful of states if I do happen to get out at 4.
My current state is one of the last to release results, but is one of the many states that has an option to be admitted without retaking the exam if you’ve been practicing 5 out of the last 7 years. The plan is to stay in at least 6 years, so am I correct in my understanding that it will generally just be few forms and an application fee to be admitted in states with this type of arrangement? Have any former JAGs had issues with this or advice on strategically choosing a state? Thanks!
- TwoRoads
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Re: Military Law
gpat113, I do not think you need to overthink this point too much, though you will hear differences of opinion. From my point of view as a practicing (civilian) attorney admitted in multiple states, take the bar of a state where you want to practice after being in the JAG Corps. Generally, we are only talking about delays of a couple months. The exception to this is New York, which can take forever to process applications. Also, yes, you can waive into many states after a certain number of years of practice, but the paperwork is still a gigantic pain (I know from experience) and it can take several months to process once you've submitted it. From a private practice perspective, employers can be less likely to pick you up if you are not already admitted in the state where the job is that you want. Further, there are plenty of states you can't waive into. Of course, if I were already PR'd, I would sure be anxious to get started, too, so I can understand the interest in getting admitted as soon as possible...A few people on here mentioned taking a random state’s bar to get results sooner, is there any down side to this I’m missing? I’ve done a decent amount of research, but would appreciate TLS confirmation that I’m not setting myself up for huge regret in a few years. The state I'm considering releases first week of September and does not have an in-person C&F interview, so I should only need to travel there for the actual bar. It's not UBE, but based on the below I don't think that should matter if I stay in 6 years. Also, most UBE states won't accept transferred scores over 3 years old, so it would only help in a small handful of states if I do happen to get out at 4.
My current state is one of the last to release results, but is one of the many states that has an option to be admitted without retaking the exam if you’ve been practicing 5 out of the last 7 years. The plan is to stay in at least 6 years, so am I correct in my understanding that it will generally just be few forms and an application fee to be admitted in states with this type of arrangement? Have any former JAGs had issues with this or advice on strategically choosing a state? Thanks!
- TwoRoads
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Re: Military Law
Thanks very much, Anonymous and Patrick Bateman.
How much notice do you typically get that you are going to TDY or deploy?No easy answer with your pets. Keeping them with a family friend/relative is probably the best option but it way too variable intensive to be able to give you definitive advice. I will also add that, if you are single, keeping pets on AD can be a serious challenge. TDYs and deployments can take you out of your house for weeks/months at a time. It is do-able but you need to make sure you have thought this out and have a plan for pet-care if the AF decides to send you back to Maxwell for a two week course.
I'm admitted in multiple states and have been in private practice for 4+ years, so my timeline may vary (if I am so fortunate as to be accepted and medically qualify), but this general timeline and advice is very helpful. I have not applied yet but knowing all of this information certainly helps me wrap my head around a lot of the unknowns.If you end up in January COT/Feb JASOC (the most common path for DAPs that need to take the bar due to the timing of bar results. Early states like Nebraska can put you in the Oct COT class and late states like NY/CA can put you into a spring COT class) - just have them pack you up and put everything in storage. Once you get to your first assignment in April, you will indeed have time to house hunt and get a permanent address. After that, you can work with TMO to get your stuff delivered from storage. Save every receipt for your travel expenses and keep them in a binder.
- Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law
I agree with your advice to gpat113 - I do not recommend just randomly getting barred in some stat for a marginal/possible benefit in terms of getting sworn in sooner. Sit for the bar in the state you most likely will return to if you leave AD. One thing to consider is a lot of states will waive bar dues for active duty - if you can pick from equal options among different jurisdictions, that is one variable you can add to your consideration.
Deployments also usually provide some lead up time but it gets more complicated in that you usually have to attend a lot training(s) prior to shipping out - you may have a few months to deploy but a lot of that is going to be totally dominated by CBRNE, medical, weapons qualifications at your home station, combat training at Fort Dix, etc.
For courses at AFJAGS or TJAGLCS, usually you will have some time to plan - typically you have to be nominated by your SJA a few months in advance and then you still have a month to a few weeks after you get formally notified. Most courses are only 1-2 weeks but one thing you would want to plan for is attending Squadron Officer School in residence at Maxwell - that will be at your first or second assignment and is around 6-7 weeks.TwoRoads wrote:Thanks very much, Anonymous and Patrick Bateman.
How much notice do you typically get that you are going to TDY or deploy?
Deployments also usually provide some lead up time but it gets more complicated in that you usually have to attend a lot training(s) prior to shipping out - you may have a few months to deploy but a lot of that is going to be totally dominated by CBRNE, medical, weapons qualifications at your home station, combat training at Fort Dix, etc.
In that you are already licensed, things will go faster for you - after you get selected and clear MEPS, it is really just a matter of all of the admin paperwork (going through AFPC, finding you dates for training, getting your orders cut, etc). Post selection, it could be as fast as ~3 months. There may be some folks on this thread that have better direct/indirect knowledge of the timeline for those that are already licensed.I'm admitted in multiple states and have been in private practice for 4+ years, so my timeline may vary (if I am so fortunate as to be accepted and medically qualify), but this general timeline and advice is very helpful. I have not applied yet but knowing all of this information certainly helps me wrap my head around a lot of the unknowns.
- Patrick Bateman
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Re: Military Law
For the Air Force - you will not being going to any of the cool courses that earn you a qualification pin or tab. The single exception is the one JAG we have at JSOC at Ft. Bragg - he/she typically will go to Jump School at Benning. That is usually a middle to senior major and that slot only comes open every 2-3 years.Anonymous User wrote:The Air Force allows some JAs to go to the Air Command and Staff College at Maxwell.Anonymous User wrote:Lol No for Navy. No cool schools or classes. You aren't allowed in the court room for two years either!Anonymous User wrote:So seems like Army encourages their JAGs to attend courses like Airborne, Air Assault, etc. if there is space and the JAGs are interested of course. Any similar opportunities or schools offered in the AF or Navy that JAGs can attend?
Like all the other services, we have a ton of different courses at our school house (as well as the Navy & Army schools) as well as all of the professional development courses - for the AF, everyone now attends SOS in residence as the primary developmental education. Each year, 6 or so majors get selected for in-residence intermediate education (Air Command & Staff College at Maxwell) and 2 Lt Cols for the senior course (Air War College at Maxwell) and maybe 1-2 super-fast burners at the National Defense University schools at McNair (National War College & the Eisenhower School).
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Re: Military Law
Army Reservists going to DCC in October: has anyone heard anything since receiving their seat confirmation or submitting their DA4856? Some emails earlier made it seem like commissioning would have taken place already, but I haven't heard anything back from JARO in quite some time now.
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Re: Military Law
Does anyone happen to know if the operation blue to green applies to Jags?
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Re: Military Law
Have any Army selects had trouble filling out the DA form 61? The instructions say we're supposed to check both boxes for active duty and reserve commission, but the form only allows me to check one when I have it open in Adobe Reader. However, if I open it in my browser, I can check both boxes, but then I can't input a digital signature. I would just print it and sign it by hand, but the instructions say that all entries must be typed.
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Re: Military Law
Instructions say to type your entries and hand sign the document, so you're gonna have to print them. I'd just hand write the second "x" with a black pen.
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Re: Military Law
You can also insert a text box into the PDF and type an "X" if you don't want to hand write the second "X". That's what the example form had.Anonymous User wrote:Instructions say to type your entries and hand sign the document, so you're gonna have to print them. I'd just hand write the second "x" with a black pen.
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Re: Military Law
Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone happen to know if the operation blue to green applies to Jags?
Interesting question. Looks like the blue to green site doesn't list any specifics about this. Are you trying to transfer to ANG or Army active duty?
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Re: Military Law
Current active duty Navy Jag, looking to future because the Navy Jag Corps blows. I'd like to continue active duty in another branch. Army or coast guard maybe? Blue to green caught my eye, but I can't find anything on whether jags can do this.Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone happen to know if the operation blue to green applies to Jags?
Interesting question. Looks like the blue to green site doesn't list any specifics about this. Are you trying to transfer to ANG or Army active duty?
- usn26
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Re: Military Law
Coast Guard is doable. You'll probably have to start over (e.g 6-7 years as an LT), but you'd be a good candidate to get picked up as a direct commission. I know at least one person who's done that route. If you work closely enough with CG Legal recruiting far enough in advance, you might be able to work it out to do a lateral transfer. But if you want to make a career you really have to do that *immediately* after making O4, otherwise getting promoted (O3-4 or O4-5, former more than the latter) will be very difficult.Anonymous User wrote:Current active duty Navy Jag, looking to future because the Navy Jag Corps blows. I'd like to continue active duty in another branch. Army or coast guard maybe? Blue to green caught my eye, but I can't find anything on whether jags can do this.Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone happen to know if the operation blue to green applies to Jags?
Interesting question. Looks like the blue to green site doesn't list any specifics about this. Are you trying to transfer to ANG or Army active duty?
Army I don't know about.
I'm curious to hear why the Navy JAG sucks (I can think of about 20 reasons, but maybe you have new ones). PM me.
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Re: Military Law
Anyone able to comment on Army blue to green?usn26 wrote:Coast Guard is doable. You'll probably have to start over (e.g 6-7 years as an LT), but you'd be a good candidate to get picked up as a direct commission. I know at least one person who's done that route. If you work closely enough with CG Legal recruiting far enough in advance, you might be able to work it out to do a lateral transfer. But if you want to make a career you really have to do that *immediately* after making O4, otherwise getting promoted (O3-4 or O4-5, former more than the latter) will be very difficult.Anonymous User wrote:Current active duty Navy Jag, looking to future because the Navy Jag Corps blows. I'd like to continue active duty in another branch. Army or coast guard maybe? Blue to green caught my eye, but I can't find anything on whether jags can do this.Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone happen to know if the operation blue to green applies to Jags?
Interesting question. Looks like the blue to green site doesn't list any specifics about this. Are you trying to transfer to ANG or Army active duty?
Army I don't know about.
I'm curious to hear why the Navy JAG sucks (I can think of about 20 reasons, but maybe you have new ones). PM me.
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Re: Military Law
Still no response regarding the October class for AD Army selects? Not sure when we'll know anything
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Re: Military Law
I received an email today that I made the October class. Active Duty Army.
- TwoRoads
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Re: Military Law
Just giving my question a bump in case anyone has thoughts. I hear MEPS and waivers are unpredictable but if anyone has anecdotal advice on low back pain or sciatica issues, I'd appreciate it.TwoRoads wrote:Does anyone have experience with lower back pain/SI joint pain/sciatica and a history of that in relation to medical qualifications/MEPS? Is this an issue? If so, is it waiverable?
Last edited by TwoRoads on Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Military Law
Did you get a separate notification that your medical had been approved by HRC before you heard that you made the October class? Also, have you been told your first duty station? If so, what was the timeline for that?Roclandsfinest23 wrote:I received an email today that I made the October class. Active Duty Army.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
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