Military Law Forum

[Anonymous User]

The OYCP cohort commissioning in a couple months has a group chat where we share various information and ask questions. We recently learned that IAW AFI 36-2005 we would be given three years of "constructive service credit". However, we are unsure what this means. Two people claim it means we will be paid as if we have 3 years of service; one person claims that it just the language used to make it so we can promote to Capt after 6 months. This is my question: will we come on active duty getting paid as an O-2 with over three years ($4,818.30/month); or will we be paid as an O-2 with 2 or less years ($3,673.50/month). The AFI does not clearly indicate what the 3 years of constructive service credit actually means.

[Legaleagle21]

The instruction provides:
10.3.5. CSC credited an officer under paragraph 10.4 through 10.8. is used only for
determining the officer’s:
10.3.5.1. Initial grade as an officer;
10.3.5.2. Rank in grade; and
10.3.5.3. Service in grade for promotion eligibility.

Does this help? My understanding was that the constructive credit didn't boost a JA's pay.

[Patrick Bateman]

The OYCP cohort commissioning in a couple months has a group chat where we share various information and ask questions. We recently learned that IAW AFI 36-2005 we would be given three years of "constructive service credit". However, we are unsure what this means. Two people claim it means we will be paid as if we have 3 years of service; one person claims that it just the language used to make it so we can promote to Capt after 6 months. This is my question: will we come on active duty getting paid as an O-2 with over three years ($4,818.30/month); or will we be paid as an O-2 with 2 or less years ($3,673.50/month). The AFI does not clearly indicate what the 3 years of constructive service credit actually means.

The constructive credit is how promoting you to O-3 after only six months is justified. Assuming no prior service, you will come in as an O-2 with less than two years.

[jam313]

Anyone have any insider info on the remaining training classes for Army JAG this year? FY19 selects were told that earliest JAOBC start date is probably January 2020 with a small number getting in earlier, but most would be choosing from January, May, or August 2020.

Knowing there is a 2019 August class, is there also an October class this year? And is the August class mostly full from May not happening? Thanks for any insight!

[Anonymous User]

Is there any point in time during DCC or OBC that we have a commissioning ceremony where we can invite friends to pin our bars on?

No, not for direct commissions. Perhaps if you are prior service and will get promoted at training. But the coordination of a ceremony would be, while not difficult, weird. Grad course usually has ceremonies at the school.

Direct commissions make captain within a few months of graduating OBC. Family/friends can pin those on.

Your family can come to both DCC and OBC graduation.

[Anonymous User]

During in-processing, did anyone have to get their wisdom teeth removed?

Did not see this at all at Army DCC. A few people had cavities dealt with. A few people got the wisdom teeth taken out once they got to their units.

Also did not see any of the "duck walk" or other slightly belittling things rumored to happen at medical inprocessing. It was instead bunch of "hurry up and wait" and "you need all these shots." They treat you (mostly) like an adult and officer. You arrive at DCC commissioned.

[Anonymous User]

Just got the good news call from my SJA, so it looks like selection notifications for GLP and OYCP have begun. Good luck to everyone in the running!

Same. I got an acceptance GLP call today as well.

Just got the call from my SJA. I’m in as well!!

Fellow GLPers, I'd be interested to hear how it's been interacting with your local ROTC detachment and what your plans are for managing the ROTC course load next year. Also is anyone considering trying to cram in field training this summer?

For me, I'm working out how I can integrate 3 ROTC courses into my law school schedule without dramatically increasing my workload. I figure I can petition the law school to accept those ROTC course credit hours towards my JD graduation requirement.

I unsuccessfully tried to get my Law School to accept the ROTC classes and receive credit. Additionally, I will have to travel almost an hour (one way) to go to the crosstown ROTC detachment. My detachment has been responsive and is trying to see if I can fulfill one of the physical fitness sessions on my own. In the end, I have no complaints since this is my number one career decision and will make it work.

[Anonymous User]

Just got the good news call from my SJA, so it looks like selection notifications for GLP and OYCP have begun. Good luck to everyone in the running!

Same. I got an acceptance GLP call today as well.

Just got the call from my SJA. I’m in as well!!

Fellow GLPers, I'd be interested to hear how it's been interacting with your local ROTC detachment and what your plans are for managing the ROTC course load next year. Also is anyone considering trying to cram in field training this summer?

For me, I'm working out how I can integrate 3 ROTC courses into my law school schedule without dramatically increasing my workload. I figure I can petition the law school to accept those ROTC course credit hours towards my JD graduation requirement.

[aka123]

Just a fun update on the medical appeals process: I was selected as an Army RC JAG in the 2017 bracket. Did all my medicals on time. The eye doctor diagnosed me with Strabismus Estropia at that point and I received my initial denial in the July 2018 area. I then immediately requested the eye doctor (who was prior-service[Navy]) to write me a letter basically saying that while i had the condition I could serve. She was kind enough to do so by the end of August 2018. I submitted all my documentation and what-not the first week of September 2018.

Apparently what was supposed to take a few weeks to a month to make a reconsideration on, has extended into now the end of March 2019 [at time of writing] (due to: 1) a new CS coming into the position when I submitted my documents, and 2) since the process had taken so long for them it now went into a new selection class and all requests for reconsideration have been put to the back of the line over the new selectees medicals). So I am still over here waiting to hear on what will be the determination on my reconsideration almost a year and a half after initial selection.

I say this all in part to vent about how frustrating things can be but also to give insight on how drawn out and tedious the medical process can be (even for something relatively minor) to give you realistic timelines if you happen to be given an initial denial. This may just be the rather unique intersection of factors outside my control that caused it or it may just be how it is. Hope it helps.

I'm a 2017 AD selectee, still waiting to commission too. Medical delay and appeal, had to take the bar again, waiting for admission, and now nursing an injury that's keeping me from taking OPAT. Hang in there buddy.

[Anonymous User]

.

[lawschoolgirl12345]

Hi all,

I just heard I was selected for Air Force JAG in Spring 2019 board. I heard yesterday via phone from my interviewer. Should I be expecting an email next or another phone call? I would like to know if I will be sent an official offer with details regarding duty station prior to accepting. Is that the process?

[howell]

Hi all,

I just heard I was selected for Air Force JAG in Spring 2019 board. I heard yesterday via phone from my interviewer. Should I be expecting an email next or another phone call? I would like to know if I will be sent an official offer with details regarding duty station prior to accepting. Is that the process?

First, congrats!

I am not sure whether it will be via phone or e-mail, but JAX will be reaching out to you in the next few days to start the medical and background checks. Your SJA should have told you that.

Are you still in law school? If so, you will not receive your duty station assignment until after you have passed the bar. As soon as you pass the bar, you should notify JAX. They will then find you a duty station and initial training date within the next week or so after that. They'll then send you the document you sign with your commissioning oath, and you can back out any time before that.

If you have already passed the bar, that will speed things up once the medical and background checks are completed.

As far as on official offer, you might get a written notice you have been selected (I can't recall), but everything is contingent on you passing the medical and background checks and the bar.

The best thing to do would be to wait a week to hear from JAX, and they will tell you how to proceed.

[Quasar]

Hi all,

I just heard I was selected for Air Force JAG in Spring 2019 board. I heard yesterday via phone from my interviewer. Should I be expecting an email next or another phone call? I would like to know if I will be sent an official offer with details regarding duty station prior to accepting. Is that the process?

Selected as well, congrats!

Hi all,

I just heard I was selected for Air Force JAG in Spring 2019 board. I heard yesterday via phone from my interviewer. Should I be expecting an email next or another phone call? I would like to know if I will be sent an official offer with details regarding duty station prior to accepting. Is that the process?

First, congrats!

I am not sure whether it will be via phone or e-mail, but JAX will be reaching out to you in the next few days to start the medical and background checks. Your SJA should have told you that.

Are you still in law school? If so, you will not receive your duty station assignment until after you have passed the bar. As soon as you pass the bar, you should notify JAX. They will then find you a duty station and initial training date within the next week or so after that. They'll then send you the document you sign with your commissioning oath, and you can back out any time before that.

If you have already passed the bar, that will speed things up once the medical and background checks are completed.

As far as on official offer, you might get a written notice you have been selected (I can't recall), but everything is contingent on you passing the medical and background checks and the bar.

The best thing to do would be to wait a week to hear from JAX, and they will tell you how to proceed.

Thanks for the info, Howell.

[Anonymous User]

For the AF, do all selection calls usually get made on the same day (or couple of days)? When is the latest I should keep up the hope? The end of the week?

[Quasar]

Quick question, is selection contingent on passing the Bar on the first attempt?

[Anonymous User]

Does the AF have an alternate list, like the Navy?

[howell]

For the AF, do all selection calls usually get made on the same day (or couple of days)? When is the latest I should keep up the hope? The end of the week?

They will usually send the SJAs a message saying the calls need to be made by COB on a certain day. While I think odds of getting called today or later are very very low, you have hope until they send the dreaded e-mail. There are different reasons a call could get delayed.

[howell]

Quick question, is selection contingent on passing the Bar on the first attempt?

There is not a hard rule that you have to pass the bar on the first attempt, but there is no guarantee they will take you either. AFI 51-101 lays out the process for requesting a deferment due to failing the bar or other reasons:

5.5.2. Deferment. Selectees who experience a delay in licensing, such as failing the bar examination, must immediately notify the Chief of Accessions and request a deferment in writing. The request must detail the circumstances surrounding their preparation for the bar exam, list the steps necessary to reattempt legal licensing, and explain their plan for studying for the next bar exam. Selectees who wish to delay entrance onto active duty for other reasons must submit a written request detailing the reason and the date available for active duty. Deferments are reviewed on a case-by-case basis. AF/JAX is the approval authority for all deferment requests.

[Anonymous User]

General question about AF JAG ascension process:

Is anyone currently having difficulties with JAX ascension office? As in lack of communication, not remembering what you told them over the phone, then getting upset that they did not remember the conversation? It is one person in particular, though for their privacy sake I do not want to name any names.

I do not mean to disparage them by any means, but after my phone call with them they made it sound like I was lying to them, when they just straight up forgot. Hopefully everyone else's process is going more smoothly!

[lawschoolgirl12345]

Howell, thank you very much for the info. I ended up getting an email this morning. Could you (or anyone else who may know) speak as to the training part? I heard that changes were recently made and that now the training is called TFOT. Is the training more difficult than before? What would the day in the life look like for training? Is the training 5 weeks still?

Also, do we go straight to JAG school in Alabama after TFOT? How long would I be there for?

Further, on my preference sheet I wrote mostly states and not specific bases where I would prefer to go. Say I wrote California, would this mean I would be considered for all California bases before moving down to the next preference? How likely would it be to be sent to California or Washington (State, not DC)? Is California very competitive generally speaking? I feel like Washington would be much less competitive to get (Im assuming just generally that less people would put it at the top of their list). I heard that the Los Angeles Air Force base may be hard to get as a first tour jag because they focus on government contracts, which is not something a first tour jag would likely not do (first tour would focus on military prosecution mainly?). Is that correct?

I look forward to reading you! Thank you for all the info.

[howell]

Howell, thank you very much for the info. I ended up getting an email this morning. Could you (or anyone else who may know) speak as to the training part? I heard that changes were recently made and that now the training is called TFOT. Is the training more difficult than before? What would the day in the life look like for training? Is the training 5 weeks still?

TFOT will be 8 weeks as opposed to 5 weeks. My guess is it's more of the same. You actually get to fire a weapon, so that's good. They will probably be a little tougher on you than they were on us in COT . . . but they made our beds for us, if that's any indication of what "tough" will involve. It's not overly physical other than just needing to be active for much of the day. The hardest part is they try to convince you you need to work 30 hours a day to get everything done. But that's one of the big lessons - learn how to prioritize, use your team, and don't do anything more than what's required. You can actually get some decent sleep if you do those things well. But these can be difficult skills for the type-A among us.

Also, do we go straight to JAG school in Alabama after TFOT? How long would I be there for?

In the past, JASOC classes were set up to try to make this happen, but it didn't always line up. I assume they'll move JASOC classes to try to do this with TFOT, but I don't know for certain. In the past, some JAGs would do COT, then go to their base for a couple months, then come back for JASOC.

JASOC is 9 weeks. You have two goals: 1) learn enough to know where to turn for answers once you get to your office and 2) make sure your classmates who you will work with and who will talk about you to others for the rest of your career don't hate you. But it's a lot of fun.

Further, on my preference sheet I wrote mostly states and not specific bases where I would prefer to go. Say I wrote California, would this mean I would be considered for all California bases before moving down to the next preference? How likely would it be to be sent to California or Washington (State, not DC)? Is California very competitive generally speaking? I feel like Washington would be much less competitive to get (Im assuming just generally that less people would put it at the top of their list). I heard that the Los Angeles Air Force base may be hard to get as a first tour jag because they focus on government contracts, which is not something a first tour jag would likely not do (first tour would focus on military prosecution mainly?). Is that correct?

I have not worked in assignments, but here is my understanding. At a certain point, you will be ready for JAX to give you an assignment. For law students, this will be once you let JAX know you have passed the bar. They'll look at what slots are open and at your list and try to get you something you want. I have had several friends get their first choice . . . and others get bases they didn't know how to spell in areas of the country they didn't ask for. There is a little luck in the timing.

If you put California, they will think ANY base in California will make you happy. So make sure you're willing to roll the dice if you put a particular state. "Washington" is probably not amazingly competitive, but Lewis-McChord right outside of Seattle very likely is. Fairchild would likely be less in demand.

Los Angeles AFB just has second assignment Capts right now, so that might be right. But part of the analysis is getting the new JAG to a base with enough military justice to get them well rounded (and trial certified). During your first assignment, they will try to get you a good mix of military justice, legal assistance, and sections you can be the "chief" of. But some people do end up going to slow military justice bases for their first assignment.

[Anonymous User]

Any Navy JAG alternate know when we should expect to hear more after that first email? I sent them an email accepting the spot the same day. They said we would hear back via email in the next few weeks. That was March 20th. Don't want to email and ask if no one else has heard anything yet, but if other people are getting follow up emails about recruiter assignments, then I will know I might have missed mine and should reach out. Thank you!

[Elle in Combat Boots]

Any Navy JAG alternate know when we should expect to hear more after that first email? I sent them an email accepting the spot the same day. They said we would hear back via email in the next few weeks. That was March 20th. Don't want to email and ask if no one else has heard anything yet, but if other people are getting follow up emails about recruiter assignments, then I will know I might have missed mine and should reach out. Thank you!

All but a few people have gotten recruiter assignments. I'd check in with the accessions office.

[Anonymous User]

Any Navy JAG alternate know when we should expect to hear more after that first email? I sent them an email accepting the spot the same day. They said we would hear back via email in the next few weeks. That was March 20th. Don't want to email and ask if no one else has heard anything yet, but if other people are getting follow up emails about recruiter assignments, then I will know I might have missed mine and should reach out. Thank you!

All but a few people have gotten recruiter assignments. I'd check in with the accessions office.

Oh damn, really? Looks like I should reach out as well.

[RoddyAA]

Any Navy JAG alternate know when we should expect to hear more after that first email? I sent them an email accepting the spot the same day. They said we would hear back via email in the next few weeks. That was March 20th. Don't want to email and ask if no one else has heard anything yet, but if other people are getting follow up emails about recruiter assignments, then I will know I might have missed mine and should reach out. Thank you!

All but a few people have gotten recruiter assignments. I'd check in with the accessions office.

Oh damn, really? Looks like I should reach out as well.

Accidental anon.