Legal research whole summer?
Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:54 am
I am a summer at a biglaw, litigation. The whole summer I have been doing legal research and writing memos. Is this normal?
Law School Discussion Forums
https://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/
https://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=301987
Thanks for the detailed answer. I guess I had the wrong impression when I dreamed about litigation. Now I completely have no interest in litigationAnonymous User wrote:I don’t think I understand your question. If your question is: “Do biglaw lit people do primarily legal research and write memos?” I would say yes - but as full-time associate you’ll probably be able to help out on more things like mediation sessions and pre-trial conference reports so you will be able to get out of the office. If, however, your question is: “Is this a normal workload/type of work for a summer associate in biglaw lit?” I would also say yes - not really sure what else you would be doing in lit to be honest. You might shadow people if there’s a big case but there’s really not much more to do in lit beyond research, discovery battles, and writing a lot of memos.
Maybe writing motions?totesTheGoat wrote:Yes. What else did you expect to be doing?
Ask if there are any shadowing opportunities available. You may get to go watch a trial.
Out of curiosity, what did you think the job would entail?Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the detailed answer. I guess I had the wrong impression when I dreamed about litigation. Now I completely have no interest in litigationAnonymous User wrote:I don’t think I understand your question. If your question is: “Do biglaw lit people do primarily legal research and write memos?” I would say yes - but as full-time associate you’ll probably be able to help out on more things like mediation sessions and pre-trial conference reports so you will be able to get out of the office. If, however, your question is: “Is this a normal workload/type of work for a summer associate in biglaw lit?” I would also say yes - not really sure what else you would be doing in lit to be honest. You might shadow people if there’s a big case but there’s really not much more to do in lit beyond research, discovery battles, and writing a lot of memos.
Sorry, I also must have read your question really fast haha - you will be able to write motions obviously but the point is that if you don’t like writing memos and doing legal research, you certainly won’t like writing motions. I’m currently an SA at a lit boutique so I’ve been basically given free reign to take over cases and have done: legal research, memos, motions, shadowed in court/mediations, etc. - I can say that, as far as my experience has been, there really isn’t much difference between doing the work for an internal memo for a partner and writing motions because it requires basically the same work and, in the end, sometimes they just copy and paste most of the work you did in a memo for a motion. I would say that if you don’t like what you’re currently doing, you probably won’t like lit. That being said, maybe you’re just not getting the types of lit cases that interest you?Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the detailed answer. I guess I had the wrong impression when I dreamed about litigation. Now I completely have no interest in litigationAnonymous User wrote:I don’t think I understand your question. If your question is: “Do biglaw lit people do primarily legal research and write memos?” I would say yes - but as full-time associate you’ll probably be able to help out on more things like mediation sessions and pre-trial conference reports so you will be able to get out of the office. If, however, your question is: “Is this a normal workload/type of work for a summer associate in biglaw lit?” I would also say yes - not really sure what else you would be doing in lit to be honest. You might shadow people if there’s a big case but there’s really not much more to do in lit beyond research, discovery battles, and writing a lot of memos.
I thought it would be writing motions, shadowing depositions, etc. Just not legal research piecemeal legal issues without knowing all the facts. I guess I was wrong.gregfootball2001 wrote:Out of curiosity, what did you think the job would entail?Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the detailed answer. I guess I had the wrong impression when I dreamed about litigation. Now I completely have no interest in litigationAnonymous User wrote:I don’t think I understand your question. If your question is: “Do biglaw lit people do primarily legal research and write memos?” I would say yes - but as full-time associate you’ll probably be able to help out on more things like mediation sessions and pre-trial conference reports so you will be able to get out of the office. If, however, your question is: “Is this a normal workload/type of work for a summer associate in biglaw lit?” I would also say yes - not really sure what else you would be doing in lit to be honest. You might shadow people if there’s a big case but there’s really not much more to do in lit beyond research, discovery battles, and writing a lot of memos.
That’s a good point. I’m not really interested in the case itself. But I figure that if I’m choosing litigation as my legal career path, I need to take a case regardless whether I like it or not. I just feel legal research is sooo boringAnonymous User wrote:Sorry, I also must have read your question really fast haha - you will be able to write motions obviously but the point is that if you don’t like writing memos and doing legal research, you certainly won’t like writing motions. I’m currently an SA at a lit boutique so I’ve been basically given free reign to take over cases and have done: legal research, memos, motions, shadowed in court/mediations, etc. - I can say that, as far as my experience has been, there really isn’t much difference between doing the work for an internal memo for a partner and writing motions because it requires basically the same work and, in the end, sometimes they just copy and paste most of the work you did in a memo for a motion. I would say that if you don’t like what you’re currently doing, you probably won’t like lit. That being said, maybe you’re just not getting the types of lit cases that interest you?Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the detailed answer. I guess I had the wrong impression when I dreamed about litigation. Now I completely have no interest in litigationAnonymous User wrote:I don’t think I understand your question. If your question is: “Do biglaw lit people do primarily legal research and write memos?” I would say yes - but as full-time associate you’ll probably be able to help out on more things like mediation sessions and pre-trial conference reports so you will be able to get out of the office. If, however, your question is: “Is this a normal workload/type of work for a summer associate in biglaw lit?” I would also say yes - not really sure what else you would be doing in lit to be honest. You might shadow people if there’s a big case but there’s really not much more to do in lit beyond research, discovery battles, and writing a lot of memos.
As a summer you should be able to sit in on a deposition or two, and certainly as a full-time associate you would get to do so. But the lion's share of the work involves legal research. That's how juniors add value. Sitting in on depositions does not add value.Anonymous User wrote: I thought it would be writing motions, shadowing depositions, etc. Just not legal research piecemeal legal issues without knowing all the facts. I guess I was wrong.
Yeah, if you hate legal research then lit might not be the best option for you honestly. I constantly have to do legal research on brand new issues I’ve never seen before or learned in law school and be able to draft MSJ’s on it - that’s just the nature of the work. If you don’t like legal research, I would suggest finding other work to branch out in.Anonymous User wrote:That’s a good point. I’m not really interested in the case itself. But I figure that if I’m choosing litigation as my legal career path, I need to take a case regardless whether I like it or not. I just feel legal research is sooo boringAnonymous User wrote:Sorry, I also must have read your question really fast haha - you will be able to write motions obviously but the point is that if you don’t like writing memos and doing legal research, you certainly won’t like writing motions. I’m currently an SA at a lit boutique so I’ve been basically given free reign to take over cases and have done: legal research, memos, motions, shadowed in court/mediations, etc. - I can say that, as far as my experience has been, there really isn’t much difference between doing the work for an internal memo for a partner and writing motions because it requires basically the same work and, in the end, sometimes they just copy and paste most of the work you did in a memo for a motion. I would say that if you don’t like what you’re currently doing, you probably won’t like lit. That being said, maybe you’re just not getting the types of lit cases that interest you?Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the detailed answer. I guess I had the wrong impression when I dreamed about litigation. Now I completely have no interest in litigationAnonymous User wrote:I don’t think I understand your question. If your question is: “Do biglaw lit people do primarily legal research and write memos?” I would say yes - but as full-time associate you’ll probably be able to help out on more things like mediation sessions and pre-trial conference reports so you will be able to get out of the office. If, however, your question is: “Is this a normal workload/type of work for a summer associate in biglaw lit?” I would also say yes - not really sure what else you would be doing in lit to be honest. You might shadow people if there’s a big case but there’s really not much more to do in lit beyond research, discovery battles, and writing a lot of memos.
I tried to ask for transactional work, but no positive feedback. One partner who does transactional work said to me that transactional work is too hard for a summer...Nagster5 wrote:I had the same experience. My summer as a biglaw litigation SA convinced me to do corporate work. If you can, maybe try to do some transactional work and see if you like it better.
I'm guessing your firm must have a VERY small transactional practice, if that is the response you got. Not to jump the gun, but if transactional work is what you want, may be worthwhile looking at firms with larger transactional practices. The NY biglaw firms have well over a hundred summers each, at least half of which are all working on transactional projects.Anonymous User wrote:I tried to ask for transactional work, but no positive feedback. One partner who does transactional work said to me that transactional work is too hard for a summer...Nagster5 wrote:I had the same experience. My summer as a biglaw litigation SA convinced me to do corporate work. If you can, maybe try to do some transactional work and see if you like it better.
In fact, they have a big transactional group. But the transactional group is very hesitant to give work to a summer in the litigation group. I don’t know how other law firm operates, but I feel my firm does not give much flexibility to a SA to switch practice area...yodamiked wrote:I'm guessing your firm must have a VERY small transactional practice, if that is the response you got. Not to jump the gun, but if transactional work is what you want, may be worthwhile looking at firms with larger transactional practices. The NY biglaw firms have well over a hundred summers each, at least half of which are all working on transactional projects.Anonymous User wrote:I tried to ask for transactional work, but no positive feedback. One partner who does transactional work said to me that transactional work is too hard for a summer...Nagster5 wrote:I had the same experience. My summer as a biglaw litigation SA convinced me to do corporate work. If you can, maybe try to do some transactional work and see if you like it better.
There's no rotation over the summer? They lock you into transactional or lit before you even show up? That's very unusual. And if transactional work is too hard for a summer, what do they have all the transactional summers doing?Anonymous User wrote:In fact, they have a big transactional group. But the transactional group is very hesitant to give work to a summer in the litigation group. I don’t know how other law firm operates, but I feel my firm does not give much flexibility to a SA to switch practice area...yodamiked wrote:I'm guessing your firm must have a VERY small transactional practice, if that is the response you got. Not to jump the gun, but if transactional work is what you want, may be worthwhile looking at firms with larger transactional practices. The NY biglaw firms have well over a hundred summers each, at least half of which are all working on transactional projects.Anonymous User wrote:I tried to ask for transactional work, but no positive feedback. One partner who does transactional work said to me that transactional work is too hard for a summer...Nagster5 wrote:I had the same experience. My summer as a biglaw litigation SA convinced me to do corporate work. If you can, maybe try to do some transactional work and see if you like it better.
I wouldn't give up on lit yet if I were you. What you so strongly dislike is an artificiality of the SA environment that dissipates once you embark on post-SA lit work. The partners hate that artificiality as much as you do. Aka "disembodied legal research":Anonymous User wrote:I thought it would be writing motions, shadowing depositions, etc. Just not legal research piecemeal legal issues without knowing all the facts. I guess I was wrong.gregfootball2001 wrote: Out of curiosity, what did you think the job would entail?
I’m sorry, but this is egregiously wrong. Have you been a lit associate? Because I have, and that’s exactly what the job entails (at least until you’re a mid level). People read my memos, and MOST of the time the cases exist, but legal research, memo writing, brief writing (if you’re good), and discovery (depending on firm/practice group) is the vast bulk of what a ligation associate does, particularly early on.ClubberLang wrote: Despite what others here have said, in no way will the lions share of your work as an associate be legal research and/or memo writing. Yeah, it generally sucks, but you won't be spending much time looking for cases that don't exist or writing memos that nobody reads because nobody pays for that.
Yep, for some time now. Never written a memo (which I understand to be a synopsis of legal research). I agree that brief writing and discovery is the majority of what a litigation associate does, but that's not what OP said he was doing. Legal research is a small piece of what a lit associate does. The type of research assignments given to summers are generally related to crazy ideas that people have kicked around and have already looked into. What type of memos do you write? How long have you been a litigation associate?Halp wrote:I’m sorry, but this is egregiously wrong. Have you been a lit associate? Because I have, and that’s exactly what the job entails (at least until you’re a mid level). People read my memos, and MOST of the time the cases exist, but legal research, memo writing, brief writing (if you’re good), and discovery (depending on firm/practice group) is the vast bulk of what a ligation associate does, particularly early on.ClubberLang wrote: Despite what others here have said, in no way will the lions share of your work as an associate be legal research and/or memo writing. Yeah, it generally sucks, but you won't be spending much time looking for cases that don't exist or writing memos that nobody reads because nobody pays for that.
You're a lit associate and have never written a memo? Are you a lit associate in biglaw? I'm just having a hard time understanding how any biglaw associate could avoid ever writing a legal memo for a more senior associate or partner. Also unclear as to how one would go about writing briefs without doing significant legal research.ClubberLang wrote:Yep, for some time now. Never written a memo (which I understand to be a synopsis of legal research). I agree that brief writing and discovery is the majority of what a litigation associate does, but that's not what OP said he was doing. Legal research is a small piece of what a lit associate does. The type of research assignments given to summers are generally related to crazy ideas that people have kicked around and have already looked into. What type of memos do you write? How long have you been a litigation associate?Halp wrote:I’m sorry, but this is egregiously wrong. Have you been a lit associate? Because I have, and that’s exactly what the job entails (at least until you’re a mid level). People read my memos, and MOST of the time the cases exist, but legal research, memo writing, brief writing (if you’re good), and discovery (depending on firm/practice group) is the vast bulk of what a ligation associate does, particularly early on.ClubberLang wrote: Despite what others here have said, in no way will the lions share of your work as an associate be legal research and/or memo writing. Yeah, it generally sucks, but you won't be spending much time looking for cases that don't exist or writing memos that nobody reads because nobody pays for that.
Anyway, someone in the thread linked to an above the law post, and its exactly right about this.