Fired summer associate Forum

[yodamiked]

Edit - Apologies, didn't mean to post anon

The advice is not naive in the terms of how to get a job in the situation. The advice is naive because it assumes that OP is someone we want to get another similar job in the situation. OP was just fired for what was most likely a serious violation, the type of which generally society would deem should invalidate that individual from being in a position of power or prestige.

I think condemning someone and baring from a career for the rest of their life for an unknown offence is quite frankly ridiculous. Also, who actually working in a "prestigious" big law job thinks what they do is a prestigious position? I mean, sure didn't feel that way late last night while I was marking up risk factors, or this morning while chasing auditors for docs.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

I actually only sleep 3 hours a night because the prestige sustains me for the other 5.

[really12]

Edit - Apologies, didn't mean to post anon

The advice is not naive in the terms of how to get a job in the situation. The advice is naive because it assumes that OP is someone we want to get another similar job in the situation. OP was just fired for what was most likely a serious violation, the type of which generally society would deem should invalidate that individual from being in a position of power or prestige.

I think condemning someone and baring from a career for the rest of their life for an unknown offence is quite frankly ridiculous. Also, who actually working in a "prestigious" big law job thinks what they do is a prestigious position? I mean, sure didn't feel that way late last night while I was marking up risk factors, or this morning while chasing auditors for docs.

I don't think OP should be barred for the rest of their life, I am all for rehabilitation, but the idea that someone could get fired for sexually harassing someone and then get another equivalent job the next day/week/month with little negative consequences to their career is just as ridiculous to me. Granted, we do not know exactly what OP did, however, as I have tried to repeatedly make clear, it is naive to think it was something minor, and the burden should be on OP to show that it wasn't something very serious. The only times I have heard of an SA getting fired in the middle of a program were because of sexual harassment or racist behavior.

In terms of the prestige/power of the profession or of big law in particular that is gonna be relative to your perspective, but ask the average person what they think about a job paying 200,000 dollars a year as a starting salary and the answer is probably gonna be unanimous.

[deference]

Edit - Apologies, didn't mean to post anon

The advice is not naive in the terms of how to get a job in the situation. The advice is naive because it assumes that OP is someone we want to get another similar job in the situation. OP was just fired for what was most likely a serious violation, the type of which generally society would deem should invalidate that individual from being in a position of power or prestige.

I think condemning someone and baring from a career for the rest of their life for an unknown offence is quite frankly ridiculous. Also, who actually working in a "prestigious" big law job thinks what they do is a prestigious position? I mean, sure didn't feel that way late last night while I was marking up risk factors, or this morning while chasing auditors for docs.

I don't think OP should be barred for the rest of their life, I am all for rehabilitation, but the idea that someone could get fired for sexually harassing someone and then get another equivalent job the next day/week/month with little negative consequences to their career is just as ridiculous to me. Granted, we do not know exactly what OP did, however, as I have tried to repeatedly make clear, it is naive to think it was something minor, and the burden should be on OP to show that it wasn't something very serious. The only times I have heard of an SA getting fired in the middle of a program were because of sexual harassment or racist behavior.

In terms of the prestige/power of the profession or of big law in particular that is gonna be relative to your perspective, but ask the average person what they think about a job paying 200,000 dollars a year as a starting salary and the answer is probably gonna be unanimous.

I think it’s safe to assume that opted a major infraction that would make everybody in the workplace feel uncomfortable with op being around, or had a major mess up that would be pretty humiliating to the firm if outsiders got news.

[nixy]

What is going on with that post above (“homophobic language redacted”)??

[Npret]

The sympathy for OP in this thread is odd. I have only heard of associates getting no offered like this (in the middle of the program) for sexual harassment and/or being racist/making racist comments. I'm sure its possible something less offensive occurred, but if it did OP should be responsible for saying so, it's odd to assume this was a simple mistake on OP's part and offer help and condolences. We all know how hard it is to get no offered in general, and getting fired in the middle of the program only happens when someone seriously messes up. If OP was fired for sexual harassment, racism, or other serious issue (which is the most likely case) then I hope they take this moment as a time to understand the issues they have going on and change for the better, but in my honest opinion, it's good they were fired and they shouldn't be in the legal profession until they work out their issues.

Its not sympathetic to tell OP to start mitigating and try to find work.
It’s just simple advice we would give anyone.

I expect OP has a very long road ahead of them just with getting through character & fitness.

[Npret]

Edit - Apologies, didn't mean to post anon

The advice is not naive in the terms of how to get a job in the situation. The advice is naive because it assumes that OP is someone we want to get another similar job in the situation. OP was just fired for what was most likely a serious violation, the type of which generally society would deem should invalidate that individual from being in a position of power or prestige.

I think condemning someone and baring from a career for the rest of their life for an unknown offence is quite frankly ridiculous. Also, who actually working in a "prestigious" big law job thinks what they do is a prestigious position? I mean, sure didn't feel that way late last night while I was marking up risk factors, or this morning while chasing auditors for docs.

I don't think OP should be barred for the rest of their life, I am all for rehabilitation, but the idea that someone could get fired for sexually harassing someone and then get another equivalent job the next day/week/month with little negative consequences to their career is just as ridiculous to me. Granted, we do not know exactly what OP did, however, as I have tried to repeatedly make clear, it is naive to think it was something minor, and the burden should be on OP to show that it wasn't something very serious. The only times I have heard of an SA getting fired in the middle of a program were because of sexual harassment or racist behavior.

In terms of the prestige/power of the profession or of big law in particular that is gonna be relative to your perspective, but ask the average person what they think about a job paying 200,000 dollars a year as a starting salary and the answer is probably gonna be unanimous.

I see you just joined the forum. Trust me, OP isn’t getting an equivalent job within a day, week or month. But we don’t know exactly what happened. Getting fired from big law and losing a start to a career is already a major punishment.

[QContinuum]

What is going on with that post above (“homophobic language redacted”)??

I'm curious too! It wasn't something a mod did (I checked the moderation logs). Either yodamiked initially included homophobic slurs in their post that they then edited to remove (yodamiked edited their own post twice, per the logs), or really12 is defaming yodamiked by falsely accusing them of posting homophobic slurs in their post. Unfortunately the moderation logs don't definitively tell us what happened.

[jrakoff]

You could always be a law school admissions counselor. [Defamatory language redacted]

[yodamiked]

What is going on with that post above (“homophobic language redacted”)??

I'm curious too! It wasn't something a mod did (I checked the moderation logs). Either yodamiked initially included homophobic slurs in their post that they then edited to remove (yodamiked edited their own post twice, per the logs), or really12 is defaming yodamiked by falsely accusing them of posting homophobic slurs in their post. Unfortunately the moderation logs don't definitively tell us what happened.

Definitely didn't include anything about anyone's sexual orientation in my post, so not sure what that's in reference to (or in what context such comments would even be relevant). Only edit I recall was to include my apology for posting anon accidentally.

[Anonymous User]

When I was a summer (back during the recession), an SA at another firm in the city I was summering in was fired for accessing SA evaluations of him/her and I think another summer on the firm’s DMS. Not smart, but also not exactly the kind of egregious, criminal behavior people are assuming here.

I would echo the advice of others who have suggested trying to pick up some unpaid legal work for the rest of the summer (maybe legal aid would let you do aome projects on a volunteer basis?) and leaving the firm off your resume. If it’s not something that will cause serious C&F issues, it’s not the end of the world.

[nixy]

You could always be a law school admissions counselor. [Defamatory language redacted]

Dude, did you start a new account to complain about Sullivan again? Give it a rest.

[cavalier1138]

You could always be a law school admissions counselor. [Defamatory language redacted]

Dude, did you start a new account to complain about Sullivan again? Give it a rest.

For real. Get into therapy. And don't use Rakoff's name.

[cavalier1138]

When I was a summer (back during the recession), an SA at another firm in the city I was summering in was fired for accessing SA evaluations of him/her and I think another summer on the firm’s DMS. Not smart, but also not exactly the kind of egregious, criminal behavior people are assuming here.

Well, for starters, that was the recession.

More importantly, most of the suggested reasons for firing a summer this early on have nothing to do with criminal behavior. Racism/harassment isn't generally criminal. And accessing files you're not supposed to access actually sounds really egregious to me, especially with regards to personnel.

[Aptitude]

OP, apply to JD advantage jobs as well. It'll probably be way less of a problem for you. Agree with others that you should move on finding an internship elsewhere. Roll the dice and apply everywhere you think you have a chance.

Edit - Apologies, didn't mean to post anon

The advice is not naive in the terms of how to get a job in the situation. The advice is naive because it assumes that OP is someone we want to get another similar job in the situation. OP was just fired for what was most likely a serious violation, the type of which generally society would deem should invalidate that individual from being in a position of power or prestige.

I think condemning someone and baring from a career for the rest of their life for an unknown offence is quite frankly ridiculous. Also, who actually working in a "prestigious" big law job thinks what they do is a prestigious position? I mean, sure didn't feel that way late last night while I was marking up risk factors, or this morning while chasing auditors for docs.

Great post. There's lots of shady people in positions of power. Hate to burst really12's bubble but when you interact with enough 1%s and the high end of that, people get real shady. They didn't seem to have problems during their run.

IMO though the only people who think their big law job is "prestigious" are those in the position. Your everyday person couldn't any or more than 1 of the Top 10 firms. Depending on where you live too, for instance in most cities there's far more everyday prestige or name recognition from saying you work at Google than at WLRK.

[sting]

When I was a summer (back during the recession), an SA at another firm in the city I was summering in was fired for accessing SA evaluations of him/her and I think another summer on the firm’s DMS. Not smart, but also not exactly the kind of egregious, criminal behavior people are assuming here.

Well, for starters, that was the recession.

More importantly, most of the suggested reasons for firing a summer this early on have nothing to do with criminal behavior. Racism/harassment isn't generally criminal. And accessing files you're not supposed to access actually sounds really egregious to me, especially with regards to personnel.

/ typically means “or.” And some people have suggested theft, illegal drugs, and DWI, all of which are criminal.

Agree that accessing documents you’re not supposed to, even unsecured ones, isn’t minor, but in my book, it’s not on the same level as overt racism or theft (particularly with respect to the summer’s own evals). Maybe others see it differently. In any event, the point is that there are a lot of reasons that it could have happened, and while OP is likely going to have a rough year ahead, it’s not necessarily true that he/she can’t recover from this.

And, yes, it was the recession, but SA firings (as opposed to no-offers) weren’t common then either.

[NotASpecialSnowflake]

The sympathy for OP in this thread is odd. I have only heard of associates getting no offered like this (in the middle of the program) for sexual harassment and/or being racist/making racist comments. I'm sure its possible something less offensive occurred, but if it did OP should be responsible for saying so, it's odd to assume this was a simple mistake on OP's part and offer help and condolences. We all know how hard it is to get no offered in general, and getting fired in the middle of the program only happens when someone seriously messes up. If OP was fired for sexual harassment, racism, or other serious issue (which is the most likely case) then I hope they take this moment as a time to understand the issues they have going on and change for the better, but in my honest opinion, it's good they were fired and they shouldn't be in the legal profession until they work out their issues.

I really don’t think suggesting OP is a racist/harasser is productive or helpful for this thread, especially since OP can’t defend themselves against your baseless accusations without risking being outed (as you already know). It also doesn’t add anything, since it’s just speculation and can’t be disproved, and doesn’t give OP any advice.

There’s also a good chance this is a flame, and you’re getting worked up over something that didn’t happen. Just chill and save your outrage for better causes.

[QContinuum]

What is going on with that post above (“homophobic language redacted”)??

I'm curious too! It wasn't something a mod did (I checked the moderation logs). Either yodamiked initially included homophobic slurs in their post that they then edited to remove (yodamiked edited their own post twice, per the logs), or really12 is defaming yodamiked by falsely accusing them of posting homophobic slurs in their post. Unfortunately the moderation logs don't definitively tell us what happened.

Definitely didn't include anything about anyone's sexual orientation in my post, so not sure what that's in reference to (or in what context such comments would even be relevant). Only edit I recall was to include my apology for posting anon accidentally.

No worries, we figured out what happened. Automod has a list of phrases it watches for and it was accidentally triggered by some formatting language. I've trimmed the automod list a bit and fixed the quote formatting so this problem hopefully won't happen again.

You could always be a law school admissions counselor. [Defamatory language redacted]

Dude, did you start a new account to complain about Sullivan again? Give it a rest.

For real. Get into therapy. And don't use Rakoff's name.

It's clearly hendersonzzz who is back yet again. I've banned the jrakoff account.

[MaxMcMann]

OP, apply to JD advantage jobs as well. It'll probably be way less of a problem for you. Agree with others that you should move on finding an internship elsewhere. Roll the dice and apply everywhere you think you have a chance.

Edit - Apologies, didn't mean to post anon

The advice is not naive in the terms of how to get a job in the situation. The advice is naive because it assumes that OP is someone we want to get another similar job in the situation. OP was just fired for what was most likely a serious violation, the type of which generally society would deem should invalidate that individual from being in a position of power or prestige.

I think condemning someone and baring from a career for the rest of their life for an unknown offence is quite frankly ridiculous. Also, who actually working in a "prestigious" big law job thinks what they do is a prestigious position? I mean, sure didn't feel that way late last night while I was marking up risk factors, or this morning while chasing auditors for docs.

Great post. There's lots of shady people in positions of power. Hate to burst really12's bubble but when you interact with enough 1%s and the high end of that, people get real shady. They didn't seem to have problems during their run.

IMO though the only people who think their big law job is "prestigious" are those in the position. Your everyday person couldn't any or more than 1 of the Top 10 firms. Depending on where you live too, for instance in most cities there's far more everyday prestige or name recognition from saying you work at Google than at WLRK.

Most cities? Is there a city where the average person has heard of Wachtel? Meanwhile literally my 86 year old grandma is vaguely aware of what Google is and that it's a great place to work.

I know biglaw clients who don't know what Wachtel is.

[deanrobbins1]

Congrats bro, you're famous!!!

https://abovethelaw.com/2019/06/a-summe ... till-hope/

[barkschool]

Above the law could have at least not quoted the site to make it look like they had a separate source. Jfc

[impactplayer]

Lol, ATL snipped the post but didn't even cite or credit TLS. Such lazy "journalism."

[mtf612]

ABL could have at least stated whether they confirmed independently that at least some biglaw firm (amlaw 100?) did indeed fire an SA.

Instead, we are just trusting that OP actually is telling the truth rather than trolling, that no other SA at their firm wants to comment on the story, and that none of the OP's friends have heard about or want to talk about what happened.

[abiglawyer]

ATL is lazy and gross. Since he’s probably reading this, I’d like to take this opportunity to say that Joe Patrice is possibly the worst writer I’ve ever read in any medium. I’m constantly amazed that even a tabloid rag like ATL continues to employ such a singularly bad writer. It’s like hiring a hen to be a messenger pigeon.

[dabigchina]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why we should not encourage OP to divulge identifying information on TLS.