Summer Associate Billables Forum
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Summer Associate Billables
Is it normal to have a minimum billable requirement as a SA? Also, how many billables do people normally get per day as an SA? I am told I need to bill well over 100 a month - is this normal? My billing is low because I'm learning as I go and I'm nervous because I can't bill for a lot of work I do to get caught up on stuff/learn things
- cavalier1138
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Re: Summer Associate Billables
That's not normal at all, especially because there's no way in hell the firm is billing your work to the client.
Are you sure they're calculating your billables the same way they would for a junior associate? As in, they're not letting you count any of your training, etc.?
Are you sure they're calculating your billables the same way they would for a junior associate? As in, they're not letting you count any of your training, etc.?
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Re: Summer Associate Billables
cavalier1138 wrote:That's not normal at all, especially because there's no way in hell the firm is billing your work to the client.
Are you sure they're calculating your billables the same way they would for a junior associate? As in, they're not letting you count any of your training, etc.?
They are billing the clients for my work, which is why I can't bill for training - note: this isn't a biglaw job.
- cavalier1138
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Re: Summer Associate Billables
Oh, then I have no idea what's standard practice for firms of whatever-type-of-firm-you're-at. But in case you're under-reporting you're billables because you think you're taking too long: don't. Report the actual time you spend working on stuff, and let the managing attorneys cut hours on the bill accordingly.Anonymous User wrote:cavalier1138 wrote:That's not normal at all, especially because there's no way in hell the firm is billing your work to the client.
Are you sure they're calculating your billables the same way they would for a junior associate? As in, they're not letting you count any of your training, etc.?
They are billing the clients for my work, which is why I can't bill for training - note: this isn't a biglaw job.
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Re: Summer Associate Billables
I'm curious how they present that on statements to clients. How big is the firm?Anonymous User wrote:cavalier1138 wrote:That's not normal at all, especially because there's no way in hell the firm is billing your work to the client.
Are you sure they're calculating your billables the same way they would for a junior associate? As in, they're not letting you count any of your training, etc.?
They are billing the clients for my work, which is why I can't bill for training - note: this isn't a biglaw job.
Last edited by QContinuum on Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Outed for anon abuse.
Reason: Outed for anon abuse.
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Re: Summer Associate Billables
There's around 50 attorneys
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Re: Summer Associate Billables
[Not OP] Some SA billables do go out, depends on the circumstances and the client. For example, on one litigation matter my firm handled, we came to an agreement with the client to allow us to bill them SA time on what amounted to a separate contingency (i.e., if we win they pay the SA billables, if we lose the SA billables are excluded but the rest stand).
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited to clarify poster is NOT OP. -QContinuum
Reason: Edited to clarify poster is NOT OP. -QContinuum
- hdivschool
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Re: Summer Associate Billables
My advice is to fully account for your time, most likely by billing the full amount of time you spend on a matter to that matter. If for some reason you are doing work that you think cannot be fairly attributed to your work on a billable matter, then you should record the amount of time you spend on that work in the timekeeping system for the relevant non-billable matter. In no event should you be working and not have your work-time reflected in your time entries.
- Wild Card
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Re: Summer Associate Billables
I wanted to assure you that you shouldn't be worrying about billables, but I suddenly realized that I'm in an undesirable place at my firm right now because I didn't do enough work as a summer. You may not be billing a great deal, but you should certainly try to do as much as you can, even if we're talking marketing or pro bono.
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Re: Summer Associate Billables
Probably as a law clerk or paralegal-sounding position. When I worked at a small firm during law school (much smaller than op’s), my work was billed out as a law clerk (hours were cut significantly, and there was no billable expectation whatsoever).Anonymous User wrote:I'm curious how they present that on statements to clients. How big is the firm?Anonymous User wrote:cavalier1138 wrote:That's not normal at all, especially because there's no way in hell the firm is billing your work to the client.
Are you sure they're calculating your billables the same way they would for a junior associate? As in, they're not letting you count any of your training, etc.?
They are billing the clients for my work, which is why I can't bill for training - note: this isn't a biglaw job.
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Re: Summer Associate Billables
My V10 bills out most SA work to clients. The rate is (relatively) low but they are generally paying it.cavalier1138 wrote:That's not normal at all, especially because there's no way in hell the firm is billing your work to the client.
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Re: Summer Associate Billables
I’m on the summer committee at my V10, I can assure you that we don’t look at billable hours (we’re more concerned with trying to source enough work on our end).Anonymous User wrote:Is it normal to have a minimum billable requirement as a SA? Also, how many billables do people normally get per day as an SA? I am told I need to bill well over 100 a month - is this normal? My billing is low because I'm learning as I go and I'm nervous because I can't bill for a lot of work I do to get caught up on stuff/learn things
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Re: Summer Associate Billables
I'm also on my biglaw firm's recruitment committee that evaluates summer associates - we never look at billables. I do look to see they have worked on a good amount of projects, i.e. they don't just have one big assignment that has taken up all of their time. Even then, we recommend they diversify their experience over the rest of the summer. In other words, it's not the billables I care about but the fact they are trying different areas of law and getting a good flavor of what our firm has to offer.
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Re: Summer Associate Billables
Sounds like a bad place.
- yodamiked
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Re: Summer Associate Billables
If you’re already stressing out as a SA about billable hours, then I would run if you literally have any other option.
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Re: Summer Associate Billables
I "billed" about 20 hours a week, which includes summer CLEs, training programs, etc. Apparently, that was even above average at my firm.
For what it's worth, every assignment done by a summer associate, is either completely re-done by a first year or concurrently done by a first year. Would worry much more about showing up, being on time, responding to emails, etc.
For what it's worth, every assignment done by a summer associate, is either completely re-done by a first year or concurrently done by a first year. Would worry much more about showing up, being on time, responding to emails, etc.
- Wild Card
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Re: Summer Associate Billables
I've been recommending this to the summers. I didn't do this and got fucked when it came time for practice group assignments.biglaw_advice wrote:I'm also on my biglaw firm's recruitment committee that evaluates summer associates - we never look at billables. I do look to see they have worked on a good amount of projects, i.e. they don't just have one big assignment that has taken up all of their time. Even then, we recommend they diversify their experience over the rest of the summer. In other words, it's not the billables I care about but the fact they are trying different areas of law and getting a good flavor of what our firm has to offer.
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Re: Summer Associate Billables
See the problem is that I was told I had to bill well north of 100 billables each month - I manage around 20/25 a week right now. I guess I was just more curious about how common it is to be told to meet a certain minimum this early on since we’re only SAs.Anonymous User wrote:I "billed" about 20 hours a week, which includes summer CLEs, training programs, etc. Apparently, that was even above average at my firm.
For what it's worth, every assignment done by a summer associate, is either completely re-done by a first year or concurrently done by a first year. Would worry much more about showing up, being on time, responding to emails, etc.
Also, I don’t mind billables - I just don’t like that I can’t bill for a lot right now (and was explicitly told I can’t bill for a lot of the things we need to learn just to complete a task) and I’m just worried I’m working a lot of hours compared to billables rn. I’m sure it gets easier once you “know” how to do stuff. The learning curve is super steep, which I assume is what most 1st year associates feel. I guess I just expected to “learn” this summer more than focus on the sheer amount of billables since I can’t bill for learning.
- yodamiked
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Re: Summer Associate Billables
EDIT - Apologies, didn't mean to post as anon
Understood, but even as a first, second or third year, you often have to do a lot of background learning to accomplish a task. Pretty sure every deal I've been on has had some aspect that required "learning how to do it" first, before actually being able to do it. That doesn't go away as your career progresses, just what you have to learn changes. I would find it somewhat concerning that the firm doesn't allow you to bill for that.Anonymous User wrote:See the problem is that I was told I had to bill well north of 100 billables each month - I manage around 20/25 a week right now. I guess I was just more curious about how common it is to be told to meet a certain minimum this early on since we’re only SAs.Anonymous User wrote:I "billed" about 20 hours a week, which includes summer CLEs, training programs, etc. Apparently, that was even above average at my firm.
For what it's worth, every assignment done by a summer associate, is either completely re-done by a first year or concurrently done by a first year. Would worry much more about showing up, being on time, responding to emails, etc.
Also, I don’t mind billables - I just don’t like that I can’t bill for a lot right now (and was explicitly told I can’t bill for a lot of the things we need to learn just to complete a task) and I’m just worried I’m working a lot of hours compared to billables rn. I’m sure it gets easier once you “know” how to do stuff. The learning curve is super steep, which I assume is what most 1st year associates feel. I guess I just expected to “learn” this summer more than focus on the sheer amount of billables since I can’t bill for learning.
Last edited by QContinuum on Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: De-anoned at poster's request.
Reason: De-anoned at poster's request.
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Re: Summer Associate Billables
At the two firms I summered at, if partners felt the “learning” was getting out of hand or that client protested about extended hours, partners would either negotiate a lower rate for those hours or have the associate bill to an internal code not billed to client but is creditable as billable internally.
I don’t think it’s quite kosher to not give credit for learning on the job at all.
I don’t think it’s quite kosher to not give credit for learning on the job at all.
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