help!!! 3.1-3.2 at CLS?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 333088
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

help!!! 3.1-3.2 at CLS?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:43 pm

is this grade prohibitively low for any v50? any suggestions on bidding? thx!
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 333088
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 3.1-3.2 at CLS?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:is this grade prohibitively low for any v50? any suggestions on bidding? thx!


I got several V50 at a lower T13 in the 3.2-3.3 range, so I feel like you've definitely got a shot. That being said, I wouldn't stress about vault rankings too much.

User avatar
benwyatt

Platinum
Posts: 5949
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:38 pm

Re: help!!! 3.1-3.2 at CLS?

Postby benwyatt » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:is this grade prohibitively low for any v50? any suggestions on bidding? thx!

You'll be fine but don't expect to end up at PW or anything.

User avatar
Wild Card

Silver
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:48 pm

Re: help!!! 3.1-3.2 at CLS?

Postby Wild Card » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:44 am

It's the sweet spot for V50...

QContinuum

Moderator
Posts: 2126
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:52 am

Re: help!!! 3.1-3.2 at CLS?

Postby QContinuum » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:is this grade prohibitively low for any v50? any suggestions on bidding? thx!

No. Target large class-size NY firms and you will do fine. Leave the grade-selective V10/V20s (you should be able to get this info from Career Services, as well as from TLS if you search old threads) off your list, except for maybe a hail Mary or two (e.g., Skadden's reputed to be one of the least grade-selective V10s). You won't be landing Cravath or DPW but you should do just fine landing a ~V50 from OCI.

Best of luck and don't stress out too much! Bid wisely, be a decent interviewee and you will be fine.

Anonymous User
Posts: 333088
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: help!!! 3.1-3.2 at CLS?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:is this grade prohibitively low for any v50? any suggestions on bidding? thx!

I was just there last year at CLS. I ultimately received several offers all from market paying biglaw firms, and cancelled callbacks too. V50 is certainly attainable, just not sure why you NEED V50. But at your direct question, it certainly is not prohibitively low. Just bid at NYC firms that are not as grade selective. OCS's data is key.

QContinuum

Moderator
Posts: 2126
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:52 am

Re: help!!! 3.1-3.2 at CLS?

Postby QContinuum » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:is this grade prohibitively low for any v50? any suggestions on bidding? thx!

I was just there last year at CLS. I ultimately received several offers all from market paying biglaw firms, and cancelled callbacks too. V50 is certainly attainable, just not sure why you NEED V50. But at your direct question, it certainly is not prohibitively low. Just bid at NYC firms that are not as grade selective. OCS's data is key.

Assuming OP is using "V50" as shorthand for "prestigious BigLaw a step below the tippy-top firms," wanting V50 makes sense as the tippy-top firms tend to be grade-selective and the bottom of the V100/AmLaw 100 is increasingly struggling to keep up with the Joneses as the market continues to stratify.

But if OP is focused laser-like on the Vault rankings and using the number 50 as a hard cutoff, then I agree that it doesn't make sense and probably is harmful.

Anonymous User
Posts: 333088
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: help!!! 3.1-3.2 at CLS?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:35 pm

I was in a similar position a few years ago. V50 is def attainable (and maybe even V30 depending on the firm) altho like others mentioned, I wouldn’t really see much of a difference bw a V40 firm and a V60 firm, esp. if you’re looking at NY corporate/transaction. What matters more at this point is your interview skills. Try to solicit objective feedback from your friends, family, and anyone else who can sit down and do a mock interview with you. Practice, practice, and practice. I really can’t emphasize that enough. Seriously.

And bid smartly. Look at the “grades by firm” data OCS provides and come up with a strategy. Have your bid list reviewed by 2Ls or 3Ls you know.

Good luck!

Anonymous User
Posts: 333088
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: help!!! 3.1-3.2 at CLS?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:54 am

Fellow CLS OCI'er -- does anyone have actual useful information on class ranks / a sense of GPA & firm cutoffs? OCS doesn't distribute that stuff, which sucks.

Anonymous User
Posts: 333088
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: help!!! 3.1-3.2 at CLS?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Fellow CLS OCI'er -- does anyone have actual useful information on class ranks / a sense of GPA & firm cutoffs? OCS doesn't distribute that stuff, which sucks.


CLS doesn't like to share this information, I imagine to protect students from firms comparing what other firms are doing.

OP, one of my good friends from CLS had a 3.0 1L and (s)he summered at/is starting in the fall at a v30 firm in NYC (although (s)he only had like 2-3 offers total I believe). The key at this point is to interview well, the only people I knew from CLS who had trouble getting NYC biglaw jobs were people with serious personality issues. So focus on your resume, maybe do some practice interviews so you come across as polished and likable.

lawdude31

New
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:21 pm

Re: help!!! 3.1-3.2 at CLS?

Postby lawdude31 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:25 pm

I would strongly encourage meeting with Jay Rhoderick, an interview coach CLS has a connection with.

icansortofmath

Bronze
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:49 pm

Re: help!!! 3.1-3.2 at CLS?

Postby icansortofmath » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:07 pm

You can also try to get the list from other T14 schools. The numbers may be different but you can get a sense of grade sensitivity ranking and adjust accordingly.

QContinuum

Moderator
Posts: 2126
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:52 am

Re: help!!! 3.1-3.2 at CLS?

Postby QContinuum » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:31 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Fellow CLS OCI'er -- does anyone have actual useful information on class ranks / a sense of GPA & firm cutoffs? OCS doesn't distribute that stuff, which sucks.


CLS doesn't like to share this information, I imagine to protect students from firms comparing what other firms are doing.

OP, one of my good friends from CLS had a 3.0 1L and (s)he summered at/is starting in the fall at a v30 firm in NYC (although (s)he only had like 2-3 offers total I believe). The key at this point is to interview well, the only people I knew from CLS who had trouble getting NYC biglaw jobs were people with serious personality issues. So focus on your resume, maybe do some practice interviews so you come across as polished and likable.

Agree with all of the above except the "only 2-3 offers" descriptor. T13 students routinely "only" get anywhere from 1-5/6 offers from OCI - even those with high grades. This is by design due to smart bidding. Students with high grades target grade-selective firms and compete with other students with high grades. And the converse is true of students with lower GPAs. You don't typically see high-GPA folks targeting V40-60 firms (again, using "V" as a rough and imprecise indicator of selectivity). In the end it's quite unusual to see folks with 7+ offers, and in fact far more usual to see folks with 1-2 offers. Most of my T13 friends ended up with 3-4 offers out of 2L OCI, and this included those with class-beating 1L grades.

icansortofmath

Bronze
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:49 pm

Re: help!!! 3.1-3.2 at CLS?

Postby icansortofmath » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:37 am

Just to add, counselors have told me some firms reject in early rounds if they are sure you won’t take their offer. Like if you’re near top of class at T14 with no obvious personality issues, Venable might turn you down knowing you’ll most likely accept a V10 offer somewhere eventually. I experienced some of that first hand with my “safe” bids.

QContinuum

Moderator
Posts: 2126
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:52 am

Re: help!!! 3.1-3.2 at CLS?

Postby QContinuum » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:41 am

icansortofmath wrote:Just to add, counselors have told me some firms reject in early rounds if they are sure you won’t take their offer. Like if you’re near top of class at T14 with no obvious personality issues, Venable might turn you down knowing you’ll most likely accept a V10 offer somewhere eventually. I experienced some of that first hand with my “safe” bids.

Absolutely true IME. I had a few friends with great grades who loaded up on less-grade-selective firms as "safeties" - the "safeties" didn't end up working out at all (fortunately they ended up fine at great firms, but could've been awful if they'd focused even more heavily on the non-grade-selective firms!).

It's the law firm version of "yield protect" lol. (Not that firms really care so much about yield per se, but they do care about not wasting their attorneys' time doing CBs with candidates they don't expect to be able to snag in the end.)

Now of course folks should still include a few safeties, if nothing else to protect against one overestimating the strength of one's grades (which is entirely possible at schools that don't give you detailed data on what GPA corresponds to what rank).

Anonymous User
Posts: 333088
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: help!!! 3.1-3.2 at CLS?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:59 pm

QContinuum wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Fellow CLS OCI'er -- does anyone have actual useful information on class ranks / a sense of GPA & firm cutoffs? OCS doesn't distribute that stuff, which sucks.


CLS doesn't like to share this information, I imagine to protect students from firms comparing what other firms are doing.

OP, one of my good friends from CLS had a 3.0 1L and (s)he summered at/is starting in the fall at a v30 firm in NYC (although (s)he only had like 2-3 offers total I believe). The key at this point is to interview well, the only people I knew from CLS who had trouble getting NYC biglaw jobs were people with serious personality issues. So focus on your resume, maybe do some practice interviews so you come across as polished and likable.

Agree with all of the above except the "only 2-3 offers" descriptor. T13 students routinely "only" get anywhere from 1-5/6 offers from OCI - even those with high grades. This is by design due to smart bidding. Students with high grades target grade-selective firms and compete with other students with high grades. And the converse is true of students with lower GPAs. You don't typically see high-GPA folks targeting V40-60 firms (again, using "V" as a rough and imprecise indicator of selectivity). In the end it's quite unusual to see folks with 7+ offers, and in fact far more usual to see folks with 1-2 offers. Most of my T13 friends ended up with 3-4 offers out of 2L OCI, and this included those with class-beating 1L grades.


I'm the 2nd quoted anon. Maybe my experience is abnormal but in the 2017 OCI season @ CLS, my friend with the 3.0 had fewer offers than I or most of my friends did (and got them somewhat later in the month). My point is, depending on how well your friends did, you may end up with fewer choices later in August than your friends but you shouldn't worry because people at CLS who do not have serious personality issues end up with at least one offer (which is really all you need).

Perhaps related, it will probably be good for your mental health to avoid talking about offers/interviews with your friends. I found it stressful talking to my friend who got offers everywhere she interviewed and who typically got offers and callbacks before I did at the same firms. Just focus on what you can control, yourself.



Return to “Legal Employment?

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.