Unofficial SA Hangouts - Ok to Skip? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi TLS, I'm a 2L SA at a NYC big firm with a medium-sized class this year. I'm wondering how "unofficial" SA hangouts, i.e. events put together by SAs themselves with no recruiting/associates/partners present, should be handled. If it's entirely up to me, I would rather not go to the weekday SA-only after party for a firm event that lets out at 10, or participate in things I'm genuinely not interested in.

I don't want to risk standing out as cold and anti-social though, and the class is small enough that people could notice if I'm absent a lot. I'm planning to go to official social events and get lunch, coffee, etc., with other SAs as often as possible if there's no conflict with work, and be a nice and helpful person around other SAs (obviously). I would appreciate any thoughts/observations on whether it's ok to skip more often or not on unofficial SA events. Thanks!!!

[RedPurpleBlue]

Skip them if you want. Everyone is self involved, and they won't care. If you're nice and social in other regards, you'll be just fine.

[okaygo]

Definitely skip them if you want. In my summer class I would pick and choose which SA hangouts I wanted to go to, and went to very very few. Usually by mid/end of summer there was only a very small core faction of people who wanted to keep hanging out after the formal events were done.

If you're worried about the other SAs liking you, I would just be nice/normally/friendly during events, lunches and panels and no one will look down on you for not wanting to go to unofficial hangouts.

[misterjames]

this is basically "how do I socialize?"

[Anonymous User]

I’m going to give the opposite advice: you should go at least for the first month if not the whole time. I summered at a biglaw firm with a smallish class. One summer got no offered directly because he did not participate much in the official and unofficial summer events. Because he seemed like he was never around, the partners had no problem no offering him, even if his absences were only reported to them by associates. Associates do talk to partners about the people who don’t socialize with the class.

If your class size isn’t huge, I would be wary of missing a bunch of events, even if unofficial. Everyone misses one or two, but any more than that and you are putting yourself at risk for no reason. To put it another way- you are getting paid to socialize for 2-3 months. It is the best job you will ever have in your life. Just do the events, official and unofficial.

[2013]

Are you a social person?
Is your summer class large?

If you have a small class and everyone hangs out after events, they will talk about the events the day after. If you’re a social person, you will easily be able to include yourself in conversations. However, if you aren’t, you may seem like a loner/antisocial person to others, which could hurt you if someone has to get no offered. People notice when a summer isn’t “fitting in” with the others.

[cavalier1138]

Associates do talk to partners about the people who don’t socialize with the class.

This is super firm-dependent. I think most associates at larger firms (1) don't know and (2) don't care how often SAs are socializing with their classmates outside of official events. I wouldn't even classify group texts saying "Let's get drinks in an hour" as unofficial events and I don't know how associates or partners would get feedback about that stuff.

It's also a bullshit criteria. Some SAs are going to have marriages/children/lives that take precedence over unofficial gatherings. Some people just aren't going to want to stay out until 1:00am at some afterparty where everyone is too drunk to remember who was actually there after the fact. I understand firms putting stock in SAs attending firm events, but I cannot imagine most big firms holding an SAs lack of attendance at post-karaoke-beer-pong against the SA.

[JohnnieSockran]

I'm going to second the person above who said to go to them at least for the first month. I was in a small summer class, and some of us hungout together more than others. I guess that kind of showed based on how comfortably we interacted together at the official events, because those of us that were also hanging out at unofficial events became a bit better of friends.

The partners commented about it on multiple occasions, mostly just informally asking about how my weekend was, etc. and often assuming that those of us that were closer friends were hanging out after some of the official events. Eventually, some of the more social attorneys (from junior associates to partners) started to want to hangout with us as well and would often stay after at our "unofficial" events, and these felt like the times that I really became close to certain people and formed relationships with people that have continued to be my mentors now a few years later.

I think being viewed as one of the people in the more social group can only help you, because at least at my firm, they like to think that we are super collegial and that we are more than just colleagues, so I think they really like when summers get along and become friends. So, it didn't matter in our specific case because we all got offers and some of the less-social people were still plenty nice and we still all got along.

So, I guess my advice is just why risk it in case they decide not to give someone an offer? It's just 10 weeks and staying late for cocktails is a hell of a lot better than staying late at the office to work (which will start in a year for you anyway once you're a first year), and you may form some great mentorships.

[Anonymous User]

Associates do talk to partners about the people who don’t socialize with the class.

This is super firm-dependent. I think most associates at larger firms (1) don't know and (2) don't care how often SAs are socializing with their classmates outside of official events. I wouldn't even classify group texts saying "Let's get drinks in an hour" as unofficial events and I don't know how associates or partners would get feedback about that stuff.

It's also a bullshit criteria. Some SAs are going to have marriages/children/lives that take precedence over unofficial gatherings. Some people just aren't going to want to stay out until 1:00am at some afterparty where everyone is too drunk to remember who was actually there after the fact. I understand firms putting stock in SAs attending firm events, but I cannot imagine most big firms holding an SAs lack of attendance at post-karaoke-beer-pong against the SA.

Quoted anon above. I agree it’s bullshit, I’m not saying it isn’t. But OP mentioned a medium size class. I was in a small/medium size summer class. I know for a fact, because I had conversations with the hiring partner as a first year, that the summer who got no offered explicitly did so because “he didn’t fit into the culture” and “didn’t make time to meet people” and “wouldn’t engage” by missing events.

The whole point of my post is not to scare, but just tell op that shit happens and it’s better to just deal with two months of late nights for free and be social than risk getting no offered. It might not be fair, but it’s not worth the risk, at least to me.

[nixy]

I’m going to give the opposite advice: you should go at least for the first month if not the whole time. I summered at a biglaw firm with a smallish class. One summer got no offered directly because he did not participate much in the official and unofficial summer events. Because he seemed like he was never around, the partners had no problem no offering him, even if his absences were only reported to them by associates. Associates do talk to partners about the people who don’t socialize with the class.

If your class size isn’t huge, I would be wary of missing a bunch of events, even if unofficial. Everyone misses one or two, but any more than that and you are putting yourself at risk for no reason. To put it another way- you are getting paid to socialize for 2-3 months. It is the best job you will ever have in your life. Just do the events, official and unofficial.

Do you think this would have been different if they’d participated in the official but not unofficial events? Missing both seems a little different.

[cavalier1138]

Quoted anon above. I agree it’s bullshit, I’m not saying it isn’t. But OP mentioned a medium size class. I was in a small/medium size summer class. I know for a fact, because I had conversations with the hiring partner as a first year, that the summer who got no offered explicitly did so because “he didn’t fit into the culture” and “didn’t make time to meet people” and “wouldn’t engage” by missing events.

By missing events, or by missing hanging out with SAs? Those are two radically different things, and I wouldn't recommend missing actual social events. But the OP doesn't seem to be in that situation.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Wow thanks for all the responses! I’m definitely not a social person but I don’t consider myself socially awkward either. I sometimes feel tapped out after 3-4 hours of being at a social event though, and fear that I may appear as tired/disingenuous even if I do show up at the after party or happy hour (again, we are talking about the ones put together and paid for by the SAs themselves).

I totally get that firm events shall not be skipped and I’m trying my best to make up by engaging other SAs in non-group settings. If it helps, the class is between 20-30 and I don’t plan on sticking with big law longer than absolutely necessary.

[Tenzen]

100% fine to skip. Skipped all summer associate events, yet worked in biglaw for 2 - 3 years.

There's not a single summer associate on the planet who decides if you get hired. And like someone suggested, most of them are too egotistical and into themselves to notice if you're not there. They're not going to spend their time tracking who shows up, trying to decide who gets hired the way recruiting and partners might care about things like attendance at firm events and work product.

[abiglawyer]

OP, no one is going to be able to tell you how your group will react to your skipping unofficial events. It may be that your firm is on the more buttoned-down, conservative side, in which case they might not even ask associates about who is attending afterparties and informal drinking sessions. On the other hand, it may be that your firm is on the frattier and more aggressively social side, in which case there could be managing partners trying to get a sense of the "fit" of each individual summer as best they can.

My opinion is that you should make an effort to go to the first few unofficial social events. People will think of you as social and willing to go the extra mile -- and initial impressions tend to stick. Then you should have a better sense of the firm's culture and whether or not you need to go to any subsequent events.

I personally hate unofficial drinking events with coworkers. I'm at work to work, and I have enough going on in my life that I pretty much always have something else I'd rather be doing once I'm done working. But one has to play the game.