Lateral from niche Government practice to BIGLAW - Salary negotiations Forum

[Anonymous User]

An opportunity to make a move from a government position to biglaw is on the horizon and I only have a couple buddies who have made a similar move.

According to a quick informal poll with a few folks, it seems like rather than bringing in laterals as associates for my practice area, the firms are bringing them in as counsel and then allowing them to stay counsel for their entire career or making them partner based off of the usual metrics. Because of this, I'm not sure what salary to ask for and what I should base my ask off of. I have about five years experience, but I'm not expecting to make the same as a fifth year (should I be?) as I don't have experience in every aspect of my practice area, just with the state law issues.

I would think asking for the same amount as a third year would be fair, but I'm kind of in the dark about this. One buddy that made the move took an offer making less than a first year associate with two years of experience , while a different friend took an offer making around a fourth year's salary with seven years of experience. These firms do pay on the 190k scale in my market.

[Anonymous User]

An opportunity to make a move from a government position to biglaw is on the horizon and I only have a couple buddies who have made a similar move.

According to a quick informal poll with a few folks, it seems like rather than bringing in laterals as associates for my practice area, the firms are bringing them in as counsel and then allowing them to stay counsel for their entire career or making them partner based off of the usual metrics. Because of this, I'm not sure what salary to ask for and what I should base my ask off of. I have about five years experience, but I'm not expecting to make the same as a fifth year (should I be?) as I don't have experience in every aspect of my practice area, just with the state law issues.

I would think asking for the same amount as a third year would be fair, but I'm kind of in the dark about this. One buddy that made the move took an offer making less than a first year associate with two years of experience , while a different friend took an offer making around a fourth year's salary with seven years of experience. These firms do pay on the 190k scale in my market.

Ask for the same salary that people in your class year make and let them negotiate you back. Your argument should be that nobody at the firm has experience with every aspect of any practice area, and while that's true for you also, you have depth of knowledge/experience in state law (or whatever other things you can credibly claim this for), and you also have deep understanding of the process at your agency, meaning that whatever they think you lack in knowledge of the laws, you make up for in experience with process and relationships with other agency attorneys (ignore the ban on appearing in front of the agency for X years, if applicable. You'll be able to appear in front of them eventually, and even if you can't appear in front of them formally, you'll obviously still be friends with them and will understand how they think about X issue)

[Anonymous User]

An opportunity to make a move from a government position to biglaw is on the horizon and I only have a couple buddies who have made a similar move.

According to a quick informal poll with a few folks, it seems like rather than bringing in laterals as associates for my practice area, the firms are bringing them in as counsel and then allowing them to stay counsel for their entire career or making them partner based off of the usual metrics. Because of this, I'm not sure what salary to ask for and what I should base my ask off of. I have about five years experience, but I'm not expecting to make the same as a fifth year (should I be?) as I don't have experience in every aspect of my practice area, just with the state law issues.

I would think asking for the same amount as a third year would be fair, but I'm kind of in the dark about this. One buddy that made the move took an offer making less than a first year associate with two years of experience , while a different friend took an offer making around a fourth year's salary with seven years of experience. These firms do pay on the 190k scale in my market.

Ask for the same salary that people in your class year make and let them negotiate you back. Your argument should be that nobody at the firm has experience with every aspect of any practice area, and while that's true for you also, you have depth of knowledge/experience in state law (or whatever other things you can credibly claim this for), and you also have deep understanding of the process at your agency, meaning that whatever they think you lack in knowledge of the laws, you make up for in experience with process and relationships with other agency attorneys (ignore the ban on appearing in front of the agency for X years, if applicable. You'll be able to appear in front of them eventually, and even if you can't appear in front of them formally, you'll obviously still be friends with them and will understand how they think about X issue)

Good points. Thank you for the advice. Do folks making a move similar to mine usually receive some type of signing bonus or negotiate performance bonus terms as well? Or is that kind of laid out in front of you take it or leave it style?

[Anonymous User]

An opportunity to make a move from a government position to biglaw is on the horizon and I only have a couple buddies who have made a similar move.

According to a quick informal poll with a few folks, it seems like rather than bringing in laterals as associates for my practice area, the firms are bringing them in as counsel and then allowing them to stay counsel for their entire career or making them partner based off of the usual metrics. Because of this, I'm not sure what salary to ask for and what I should base my ask off of. I have about five years experience, but I'm not expecting to make the same as a fifth year (should I be?) as I don't have experience in every aspect of my practice area, just with the state law issues.

I would think asking for the same amount as a third year would be fair, but I'm kind of in the dark about this. One buddy that made the move took an offer making less than a first year associate with two years of experience , while a different friend took an offer making around a fourth year's salary with seven years of experience. These firms do pay on the 190k scale in my market.

Ask for the same salary that people in your class year make and let them negotiate you back. Your argument should be that nobody at the firm has experience with every aspect of any practice area, and while that's true for you also, you have depth of knowledge/experience in state law (or whatever other things you can credibly claim this for), and you also have deep understanding of the process at your agency, meaning that whatever they think you lack in knowledge of the laws, you make up for in experience with process and relationships with other agency attorneys (ignore the ban on appearing in front of the agency for X years, if applicable. You'll be able to appear in front of them eventually, and even if you can't appear in front of them formally, you'll obviously still be friends with them and will understand how they think about X issue)

Good points. Thank you for the advice. Do folks making a move similar to mine usually receive some type of signing bonus or negotiate performance bonus terms as well? Or is that kind of laid out in front of you take it or leave it style?

You'll have to (and should) negotiate for a signing bonus. They won't mention it, but it'll be budgeted for.

[Anonymous User]

If you don't have 8+ years of experience, I'm not sure that a firm on the 190k scale is thinking of bringing you in as counsel, but each firm treats the counsel title differently (for some, it's a step-back, part-time kinda gig; for some, it's a stepping stone to partner; for some, it's an alternative to partner but still with higher-than-senior-associate compensation).

If you super specialized experience that makes you more valuable than someone who's been toiling away at generic biglaw (e.g., experience at a bigfed agency and moving to a practice group in DC that specializes in that agency), then there's potentially a case for coming in above your class-year seniority.

If not, there's no reason to drop a class year: the biglaw firms have lockstep salary (and, generally, bonuses) for (nearly) all associates. If the firm thinks you're missing some critical set of skills and they ask you to drop a class year or two, that's definitely negotiable but may be alright -- if you'd otherwise be behind on skills, etc.

[splitmuch]

If you are brought in as an associate you will almost certainly be paid the salary the firm pays to associates of that class year. So what you are really negotiating is class year (plus signing bonus, which you should indeed negotiate). Depending on the firm's progression path there could be advantages to taking a drop. For example, if the firm is up-and-out with a call in year 8, you might want to start as a 4th year instead of a 5th year to give you more time to develop a reputation and relationships before your call.

[Anonymous User]

Wanted to post an update on this after the initial offer and my counteroffer. As I said above, firm is Biglaw and pays market salary in all markets except for for maybe two smaller markets. Initial offer was to come in as a 1st year associate, with reduced salary from market for the first two years (making about 60% of market) with bumps at with lockstep bumps. Starting in the 3rd year, would start making full 3rd year associate salary. Hours requirements are the same as for a usual associate and would be on website as normal associate (not staff attorney or anything along those lines). No signing bonus.

Needless to say, not what I was expecting. I countered by discounting my experience by a bit, but hoping to come in as a normal associate.