Burnout in Biglaw Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hoping for a bit of weigh-in/advice here.

I’m a mid level M&A lawyer in a secondary market. Though it’s definitely not NYC biglaw, my current job is still not in any way “lifestyle”. I was lucky enough to attend law school on a full ride. Although I busted my ass in biglaw, it has afforded me opportunities to take fun trips, buy a house and build an adult life. I was a liberal arts shithead and practicing has taught me an enormous amount about business, for which I’m extremely grateful.

But I’m miserable doing the work. The idea of papering deals for the rest of my life makes me feel utterly empty inside and I’m very much turned off by the idea of being a biglaw partner. I’ve applied to and interviewed for a few in house positions but the work seems just as crappy for worse pay and questionable hours. My run in biglaw has been much longer than I ever anticipated. But I think I’m hitting burnout doing work that I don’t care about. Life is short and I don’t think I’m living up to my potential.

I currently have about a year’s worth of living expenses on hand and am aggressively working to save more as quickly as possible. I am thinking I need to take a few months off to regroup, think long and hard about what comes next (I’ve considered journalism/writing, plaintiffs’ work, real estate sales, etc.). I’m unmarried and don’t have kids so there’s nothing holding me back other than blowing through savings, though I imagine I could stay afloat for quite awhile if I did temp work, rented my place out and regrouped in a low COL area (like SE Asia or South America), or ubered to supplement cash.

Has anyone been through this and overcome burnout? Should is stick with biglaw? Am I being an entitled millennial shit? All opinions welcome. Many thanks.

[Anonymous User]

Yes, I've experienced this.

What you're not able to see is that M&A is not the only kind of corporate. (I'm sure you know this, but...you need to feel it.) There are plenty of other types of corporate (venture, general corporate/outside GC, cap mkts, securities, soft IP/licensing). In almost all of these other areas, your clients are more appreciative and you feel like you're actually helping someone instead of papering deals that no one cares about except the people getting an exit.

I think you should do a little more interviewing. And to the extent you can think bigger or are geographically flexible, think about taking your practice elsewhere to broaden it.

If you're tired, take a longer vacation. Just do it. Find coverage. Do more thinking. You're going to be OK!

[RedGiant]

Please read this Captain Awkward:

https://captainawkward.com/2019/05/08/1 ... re-i-work/

[LawAndBehold]

Hoping for a bit of weigh-in/advice here.

I’m a mid level M&A lawyer in a secondary market. Though it’s definitely not NYC biglaw, my current job is still not in any way “lifestyle”. I was lucky enough to attend law school on a full ride. Although I busted my ass in biglaw, it has afforded me opportunities to take fun trips, buy a house and build an adult life. I was a liberal arts shithead and practicing has taught me an enormous amount about business, for which I’m extremely grateful.

But I’m miserable doing the work. The idea of papering deals for the rest of my life makes me feel utterly empty inside and I’m very much turned off by the idea of being a biglaw partner. I’ve applied to and interviewed for a few in house positions but the work seems just as crappy for worse pay and questionable hours. My run in biglaw has been much longer than I ever anticipated. But I think I’m hitting burnout doing work that I don’t care about. Life is short and I don’t think I’m living up to my potential.

I currently have about a year’s worth of living expenses on hand and am aggressively working to save more as quickly as possible. I am thinking I need to take a few months off to regroup, think long and hard about what comes next (I’ve considered journalism/writing, plaintiffs’ work, real estate sales, etc.). I’m unmarried and don’t have kids so there’s nothing holding me back other than blowing through savings, though I imagine I could stay afloat for quite awhile if I did temp work, rented my place out and regrouped in a low COL area (like SE Asia or South America), or ubered to supplement cash.

Has anyone been through this and overcome burnout? Should is stick with biglaw? Am I being an entitled millennial shit? All opinions welcome. Many thanks.

Yes. I have gone through this. I thought going in-house would fix it. But I quickly found out that indeed the work is indeed crappy, hours also questionable and pay is definitely worse. As soon as I stepped through the door in-house, I realized that all my negative feelings (of demotivation and bitterness) did not go away by changing jobs/career. In fact, I quickly realized that I made a mistake going in-house and leaving my (V50) firm, content of the work in-house I found dull, and atmosphere was not particularly nice. Just like at the end of my tenure at the law firm, no matter how hard I tried to motivate myself to work, I couldn’t because I was burnt out. Or very close to it. So the next couple of months I spent trying to get in a better mindset, thinking very hard about why I left, what I want out of my career, what I value most, etc. Feelings of being depressed and demotivated faded after a month or two. And then I started working towards a game plan, having realized that I much prefer to be a lawyer (for various reasons), working 12 hours a day on work that I like doing rather than being an in-house lawyer, working 10 hours a day on stuff that I found dull (and for less pay). Long story short: I will be going back to my old law firm soon, with a re-energized sense of enthousiasm, but also packed with the knowledge of what made me feel “burnt out” in the first place, determined not to have that happen again... So yes, long story short: I’ve been there.

[Anonymous User]

Sorry to hear this. I’ve been there, too. After my 4th year I couldn’t take going back to that office for another year. I quit to do a foreign clerkship with the understanding that I might come back. I ended up loving the clerkship and then took additional time to pursue other interests. I did go back to biglaw, but in a different city. The time off and change of scenery helped a lot. I plan to stay until 8th year and then will feel like I have enough saved to do lower paid work that is more interesting me.

[Anonymous User]

Hoping for a bit of weigh-in/advice here.

I’m a mid level M&A lawyer in a secondary market. Though it’s definitely not NYC biglaw, my current job is still not in any way “lifestyle”. I was lucky enough to attend law school on a full ride. Although I busted my ass in biglaw, it has afforded me opportunities to take fun trips, buy a house and build an adult life. I was a liberal arts shithead and practicing has taught me an enormous amount about business, for which I’m extremely grateful.

But I’m miserable doing the work. The idea of papering deals for the rest of my life makes me feel utterly empty inside and I’m very much turned off by the idea of being a biglaw partner. I’ve applied to and interviewed for a few in house positions but the work seems just as crappy for worse pay and questionable hours. My run in biglaw has been much longer than I ever anticipated. But I think I’m hitting burnout doing work that I don’t care about. Life is short and I don’t think I’m living up to my potential.

I currently have about a year’s worth of living expenses on hand and am aggressively working to save more as quickly as possible. I am thinking I need to take a few months off to regroup, think long and hard about what comes next (I’ve considered journalism/writing, plaintiffs’ work, real estate sales, etc.). I’m unmarried and don’t have kids so there’s nothing holding me back other than blowing through savings, though I imagine I could stay afloat for quite awhile if I did temp work, rented my place out and regrouped in a low COL area (like SE Asia or South America), or ubered to supplement cash.

Has anyone been through this and overcome burnout? Should is stick with biglaw? Am I being an entitled millennial shit? All opinions welcome. Many thanks.

Yes. I have gone through this. I thought going in-house would fix it. But I quickly found out that indeed the work is indeed crappy, hours also questionable and pay is definitely worse. As soon as I stepped through the door in-house, I realized that all my negative feelings (of demotivation and bitterness) did not go away by changing jobs/career. In fact, I quickly realized that I made a mistake going in-house and leaving my (V50) firm, content of the work in-house I found dull, and atmosphere was not particularly nice. Just like at the end of my tenure at the law firm, no matter how hard I tried to motivate myself to work, I couldn’t because I was burnt out. Or very close to it. So the next couple of months I spent trying to get in a better mindset, thinking very hard about why I left, what I want out of my career, what I value most, etc. Feelings of being depressed and demotivated faded after a month or two. And then I started working towards a game plan, having realized that I much prefer to be a lawyer (for various reasons), working 12 hours a day on work that I like doing rather than being an in-house lawyer, working 10 hours a day on stuff that I found dull (and for less pay). Long story short: I will be going back to my old law firm soon, with a re-energized sense of enthousiasm, but also packed with the knowledge of what made me feel “burnt out” in the first place, determined not to have that happen again... So yes, long story short: I’ve been there.

This is one perspective to in-house. Here is another - I was getting burned out biglaw M&A as well. In my full 3 years I hit 2300, 2500 and 2600 hours billable (doesn't include all the time recruiting, biz dev, etc.). I realized I didn't want to be a partner which entailed giving up the best 8 years of my life (let's be real, when you are in biglaw you live for the vacations but the rest sucks cause it could be upended at any point). So I ended up looking at in-house gigs. I found a spot where I work 8:30 to 6:00 pretty consistently. I hit the gym every morning, I am home for dinner every night, my weekends are never ruined.

As to the work - just look for something you are interested in. Do you like corporate governance? Those spots are easy to find. I don't, so I looked for a M&A heavy position. Since I started almost a year ago, I have closed more M&A deals than I did in any year at my firm. Sure, the deals are A LOT smaller, but any M&A attorney knows that has nothing to do with level of interest or complexity. I work on the deals on my timeline, if its 6:00 pm and we are not even close, I email the other side and tell them we should pick up tomorrow. YEs, I have to do some governance stuff too. During Proxy/K season that dominates, but even at a firm there are tasks that absolutely suck. Just be picky about the in-house gig. It sounds like you have time. People are too quick to think all in-house is the same. Sure if you accept the first shit in-house offer and you are stuck reviewing contracts and leases, you are going to hate it. Take your time, go out to lunch with as many GCs as you can network with and see what type of work they have going.

[shock259]

I hit this and went in house. It's been perfect for me. I treat my job as as my job. I come in, do the work, and leave. It doesn't really stress me, and the hours are great. I have tons of time to devote to my actual hobbies and interests. Pay is low compared to biglaw, but when you compare it to other professions, it's pretty damn good.

This change fixed my burnout. But everyone's unique, and maybe it won't for you. That said, I might encourage you to not dismiss it so quickly. You might need a year off, or you might just need to find a job that is a "job" and not life-defining like biglaw is.

[Anonymous User]

Appreciate the input, everyone!

[objctnyrhnr]

Other side (mid level lit) yeah I feel symptoms of burnout sometimes, but I just know that I would hate being in house. Corny as it sounds, the whole litigation thing as a concept approaches a passion for me. I couldn’t imagine just watching other people doing it as an in house attorney even if it meant more time with my family (which I could really use right now).

Maybe that makes me a bad family person but I couldn’t imagine waking up and not doing something I felt close to passionate about, even if I could only do that other thing 40 hours a week.

And I’m not saying I don’t feel tired and burnt with frequency, but right now the alternative just seems worse.

My two cents.

[LawAndBehold]

Other side (mid level lit) yeah I feel symptoms of burnout sometimes, but I just know that I would hate being in house. Corny as it sounds, the whole litigation thing as a concept approaches a passion for me. I couldn’t imagine just watching other people doing it as an in house attorney even if it meant more time with my family (which I could really use right now).

Maybe that makes me a bad family person but I couldn’t imagine waking up and not doing something I felt close to passionate about, even if I could only do that other thing 40 hours a week.

And I’m not saying I don’t feel tired and burnt with frequency, but right now the alternative just seems worse.

My two cents.

100% agreed with this. This is what I found out and why I am going back to BigLaw. Grass is not greener and people - with no in-house experience, like my ex-colleagues - seem to treat in-house as a golden ticket.

[Anonymous User]

Other side (mid level lit) yeah I feel symptoms of burnout sometimes, but I just know that I would hate being in house. Corny as it sounds, the whole litigation thing as a concept approaches a passion for me. I couldn’t imagine just watching other people doing it as an in house attorney even if it meant more time with my family (which I could really use right now).

Maybe that makes me a bad family person but I couldn’t imagine waking up and not doing something I felt close to passionate about, even if I could only do that other thing 40 hours a week.

And I’m not saying I don’t feel tired and burnt with frequency, but right now the alternative just seems worse.

My two cents.

100% agreed with this. This is what I found out and why I am going back to BigLaw. Grass is not greener and people - with no in-house experience, like my ex-colleagues - seem to treat in-house as a golden ticket.

As someone in-house, I can agree that this could be the case for litigation. I think most people when talking about the "in-house dream" are talking about corporate. As a corporate associate, you do a lot of the same work at a firm and in-house, just at your own pace and on your own hours. It is also mostly corporate people who make it to the GC level, as opposed to litigators (not always, I know some litigators that made it to GC, but it seems rare). Grass is absolutely greener for corporate (myself and all the people I know who went in house at least (probably about 15 people at this point) and were picky about their position).

[Anonymous User]

As someone in-house, I can agree that this could be the case for litigation. I think most people when talking about the "in-house dream" are talking about corporate. As a corporate associate, you do a lot of the same work at a firm and in-house, just at your own pace and on your own hours. It is also mostly corporate people who make it to the GC level, as opposed to litigators (not always, I know some litigators that made it to GC, but it seems rare). Grass is absolutely greener for corporate (myself and all the people I know who went in house at least (probably about 15 people at this point) and were picky about their position).

5th year transactional associate about to go in-house in a couple of weeks and this reassures me. I'm so burned out by my seriously declining physical and mental health due to not sleeping, eating well, no gym time, etc., and while I don't love the work I do, I feel like I can do it better (and find it more tolerable) if the hours were more predictable--I can deal with the long hours, it's just having an entire weekend ruined like last weekend paper pushing on a false urgent deadline so our investment banker client can have a relaxed memorial day vacay (while I'll probably be trapped in the office).

New in-house gig promises 8-5 or 9-6 and minimal weekend work. Colleagues and future internal business clients seem nice and reasonable, so I'm just hoping it works out.