When is it time to quit the legal job search? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Have you considered taking your GPA off your resume? (Assuming its still on there). I’ve networked with a few partners and their advice was that after about two years post grad its ok to leave off your GPA. They can always reference your transcript or ask you but this might increase your chances of getting an interview.

I’m a 2017 grad as well with slightly below median grades at a T1. (> 3.0) I took a JD-Advantage job after law school because my grades weren't great. I took my GPA off my resume after a little over a year and received 4 offers this year from midsized firms. Don’t give up! Apply to as many opportunities as you can, after getting some experience you can try to lateral to a bigger firm or a practice group you prefer.

Clerking is also a great route. A couple of my classmates clerked after law school and received big law offers after their clerkship. (if thats what you're aiming for).

Best of luck!

My GPA is still on my resume because it is not a sub-3.0 GPA. I am skeptical of removing it because I heard that it could be interpreted as deceitful and they'll ask about it anyway. However, at this point I think I'll take it off.

I'm very interested in clerkships, and even interviewed for one with a federal judge. But overall, I've had limited success with applying on both the state and federal level.

I'm open to a wide variety of practice areas, but I'm trying to avoid ID at all costs.

[LawAndBehold]

OP, this is just a suggestion but you mentioned you had 15 interviews, so to me the bigger problem would seem not to be your CV (and grades) but rather your interviewing skills, so why don’t you reach out to a professional to help you work on your interviewing skills? Surely can’t hurt and to me, it seems it goes “wrong” at the interview level...

[AVBucks4239]

My GPA is still on my resume because it is not a sub-3.0 GPA. I am skeptical of removing it because I heard that it could be interpreted as deceitful and they'll ask about it anyway. However, at this point I think I'll take it off.

I'm very interested in clerkships, and even interviewed for one with a federal judge. But overall, I've had limited success with applying on both the state and federal level.

I'm open to a wide variety of practice areas, but I'm trying to avoid ID at all costs.

T2 and below median grades? Again, I'm not a prestige whore at all (went to Ohio State and proud of it), but those jobs are likely way out of your league for right now. Stop wasting your time going for federal clerkships and change your perspective.

[Anonymous User]

My GPA is still on my resume because it is not a sub-3.0 GPA. I am skeptical of removing it because I heard that it could be interpreted as deceitful and they'll ask about it anyway. However, at this point I think I'll take it off.

I'm very interested in clerkships, and even interviewed for one with a federal judge. But overall, I've had limited success with applying on both the state and federal level.

I'm open to a wide variety of practice areas, but I'm trying to avoid ID at all costs.

T2 and below median grades? Again, I'm not a prestige whore at all (went to Ohio State and proud of it), but those jobs are likely way out of your league for right now. Stop wasting your time going for federal clerkships and change your perspective.

Would a specialty practice area like L&E be feasible?

[2013]

I’m very perplexed by OP’s situation. She or he is unemployed, but would rather stay unemployed than going into “shitlaw.” TBH, I don’t even know if that’s a guarantee given that there’s a new crop of graduates now and OP seems to have been unemployed for a little while.

[Anonymous User]

I’m very perplexed by OP’s situation. She or he is unemployed, but would rather stay unemployed than going into “shitlaw.” TBH, I don’t even know if that’s a guarantee given that there’s a new crop of graduates now and OP seems to have been unemployed for a little while.

Well after reading this site for years, it seems like few people lateral out of shitlaw practice areas. I would have even less of a chance of lateraling out because of my lack of people/networking skills. I would rather go solo (which would likely go disastrously because I would almost certainly have trouble bringing business in) or quit law before spending career purgatory in shitlaw.

[2013]

I’m very perplexed by OP’s situation. She or he is unemployed, but would rather stay unemployed than going into “shitlaw.” TBH, I don’t even know if that’s a guarantee given that there’s a new crop of graduates now and OP seems to have been unemployed for a little while.

Well after reading this site for years, it seems like few people lateral out of shitlaw practice areas. I would have even less of a chance of lateraling out because of my lack of people/networking skills. I would rather go solo (which would likely go disastrously because I would almost certainly have trouble bringing business in) or quit law before spending career purgatory in shitlaw.

You have to take everything you read on this site with a grain of salt.

Also, a lot of the threads on this site aren’t geared towards T2 below median students. For some, shitlaw is a good outcome regardless of what happens.

As previous posters have stated, law is a field where quirky personalities are generally accepted as normal. That’s not the case in other fields. If you know you don’t have the skills to bring in business as a solo, maybe you should avoid client-facing business jobs as well.

FWIW, I have seen people go from insurance defense to general lit at respectable firms. Also, people make very successful careers out of personal injury as well.

[beeoBoop]

I’m very perplexed by OP’s situation. She or he is unemployed, but would rather stay unemployed than going into “shitlaw.” TBH, I don’t even know if that’s a guarantee given that there’s a new crop of graduates now and OP seems to have been unemployed for a little while.

Well after reading this site for years, it seems like few people lateral out of shitlaw practice areas. I would have even less of a chance of lateraling out because of my lack of people/networking skills. I would rather go solo (which would likely go disastrously because I would almost certainly have trouble bringing business in) or quit law before spending career purgatory in shitlaw.

I think it's safe to say you've tested the market and now have to respond accordingly. After 300+ applications, you have a sense of your marketability. If you want to practice law, you'll need to look at smaller firms, insurance defense, personal injury etc. There's no shame in that, you can get good skills in these settings and lateral out or find other opportunities. But those seem to be your options in the legal field.

Whether you'd be willing to work in those places or whether you need to find a different industry altogether is up to you.

[andythefir]

Are you in an oversaturated legal market? I struck out hard in the Midwest but had no trouble at all finding work in the rural mountain west.

[AVBucks4239]

My GPA is still on my resume because it is not a sub-3.0 GPA. I am skeptical of removing it because I heard that it could be interpreted as deceitful and they'll ask about it anyway. However, at this point I think I'll take it off.

I'm very interested in clerkships, and even interviewed for one with a federal judge. But overall, I've had limited success with applying on both the state and federal level.

I'm open to a wide variety of practice areas, but I'm trying to avoid ID at all costs.

T2 and below median grades? Again, I'm not a prestige whore at all (went to Ohio State and proud of it), but those jobs are likely way out of your league for right now. Stop wasting your time going for federal clerkships and change your perspective.

Would a specialty practice area like L&E be feasible?

I don't know how many different or more direct ways to say it -- you just need to get your first legal job. I've already told you that getting stuck in a practice area is largely bogus.

[Anonymous User]

My GPA is still on my resume because it is not a sub-3.0 GPA. I am skeptical of removing it because I heard that it could be interpreted as deceitful and they'll ask about it anyway. However, at this point I think I'll take it off.

I'm very interested in clerkships, and even interviewed for one with a federal judge. But overall, I've had limited success with applying on both the state and federal level.

I'm open to a wide variety of practice areas, but I'm trying to avoid ID at all costs.

T2 and below median grades? Again, I'm not a prestige whore at all (went to Ohio State and proud of it), but those jobs are likely way out of your league for right now. Stop wasting your time going for federal clerkships and change your perspective.

Would a specialty practice area like L&E be feasible?

I don't know how many different or more direct ways to say it -- you just need to get your first legal job. I've already told you that getting stuck in a practice area is largely bogus.

I think the reason you were successful in moving on from shitlaw is because you're good with people. Unlike you, I don't have "50-75 people from high school, 25-30 people from college, 10-15 people from law school" that I could reach out to to access the hidden legal hiring network. I don't have one. I'm not good with other people, and I've tried to improve my social skills for years but nothing has worked. If I start in shitlaw, I'm likely going to stay in shitlaw because I won't have the network to rely upon.

[cavalier1138]

I don't have one. I'm not good with other people, and I've tried to improve my social skills for years but nothing has worked. If I start in shitlaw, I'm likely going to stay in shitlaw because I won't have the network to rely upon.

So are you just looking for someone to confirm that you should give up on the idea of practicing law? Because that seems like what you're looking for.

[Anonymous User]

I don't have one. I'm not good with other people, and I've tried to improve my social skills for years but nothing has worked. If I start in shitlaw, I'm likely going to stay in shitlaw because I won't have the network to rely upon.

So are you just looking for someone to confirm that you should give up on the idea of practicing law? Because that seems like what you're looking for.

I'm open to any suggestions. Right now, I'm leaning toward quit because it seems hopeless.

[Arad]

When you have a job.

[cavalier1138]

I don't have one. I'm not good with other people, and I've tried to improve my social skills for years but nothing has worked. If I start in shitlaw, I'm likely going to stay in shitlaw because I won't have the network to rely upon.

So are you just looking for someone to confirm that you should give up on the idea of practicing law? Because that seems like what you're looking for.

I'm open to any suggestions. Right now, I'm leaning toward quit because it seems hopeless.

Well, you keep ignoring the suggestions people are giving. So I can understand why it seems hopeless.

If you're not willing to figure out how to get over "not being good with people," then you're going to have trouble getting hired anywhere, not just in legal jobs.

[Anonymous User]

I don't have one. I'm not good with other people, and I've tried to improve my social skills for years but nothing has worked. If I start in shitlaw, I'm likely going to stay in shitlaw because I won't have the network to rely upon.

So are you just looking for someone to confirm that you should give up on the idea of practicing law? Because that seems like what you're looking for.

I'm open to any suggestions. Right now, I'm leaning toward quit because it seems hopeless.

Well, you keep ignoring the suggestions people are giving. So I can understand why it seems hopeless.

If you're not willing to figure out how to get over "not being good with people," then you're going to have trouble getting hired anywhere, not just in legal jobs.

I mean, I've been to social skills training, participated in group activities, and read self help books and I still can't make friends. If anyone has any ideas on how I can improve my social skills and make friends, I'm all ears.

[omar1]

When you have a job.

[sparty99]

My GPA is still on my resume because it is not a sub-3.0 GPA. I am skeptical of removing it because I heard that it could be interpreted as deceitful and they'll ask about it anyway. However, at this point I think I'll take it off.

I'm very interested in clerkships, and even interviewed for one with a federal judge. But overall, I've had limited success with applying on both the state and federal level.

I'm open to a wide variety of practice areas, but I'm trying to avoid ID at all costs.

T2 and below median grades? Again, I'm not a prestige whore at all (went to Ohio State and proud of it), but those jobs are likely way out of your league for right now. Stop wasting your time going for federal clerkships and change your perspective.

Would a specialty practice area like L&E be feasible?

I don't know how many different or more direct ways to say it -- you just need to get your first legal job. I've already told you that getting stuck in a practice area is largely bogus.

I think the reason you were successful in moving on from shitlaw is because you're good with people. Unlike you, I don't have "50-75 people from high school, 25-30 people from college, 10-15 people from law school" that I could reach out to to access the hidden legal hiring network. I don't have one. I'm not good with other people, and I've tried to improve my social skills for years but nothing has worked. If I start in shitlaw, I'm likely going to stay in shitlaw because I won't have the network to rely upon.

You sound like a baby and need to stop making excuses. I am an introvert and went from an hourly legal job to insurance defense to big law. So, please. Stop with the excuses.

[beeoBoop]

I don't have one. I'm not good with other people, and I've tried to improve my social skills for years but nothing has worked. If I start in shitlaw, I'm likely going to stay in shitlaw because I won't have the network to rely upon.

So are you just looking for someone to confirm that you should give up on the idea of practicing law? Because that seems like what you're looking for.

I'm open to any suggestions. Right now, I'm leaning toward quit because it seems hopeless.

Well, you keep ignoring the suggestions people are giving. So I can understand why it seems hopeless.

If you're not willing to figure out how to get over "not being good with people," then you're going to have trouble getting hired anywhere, not just in legal jobs.

I mean, I've been to social skills training, participated in group activities, and read self help books and I still can't make friends. If anyone has any ideas on how I can improve my social skills and make friends, I'm all ears.

This isn't a problem unique to the law. You're going to have this issue in any field. So quitting doesn't solve the issue.

You're overthinking the social thing to the point where it sounds crippling. Just relax, smile, and be friendly. That's it, unless you have a diagnosed condition (in which case I'm unqualified to give advice on that issue)

[AVBucks4239]

I think the reason you were successful in moving on from shitlaw is because you're good with people. Unlike you, I don't have "50-75 people from high school, 25-30 people from college, 10-15 people from law school" that I could reach out to to access the hidden legal hiring network. I don't have one. I'm not good with other people, and I've tried to improve my social skills for years but nothing has worked. If I start in shitlaw, I'm likely going to stay in shitlaw because I won't have the network to rely upon.

Couple things:

(1) I used to be a HUGE introvert. Christ, I didn't even have a girlfriend until I was 26. It took a lot of work to come out of my shell.

(2) I'm a solo practitioner doing a lot of what you call "shitlaw." Have you ever considered that it's kind of...fun and easier than big law? Again, think outside the box here.

I mean, I've been to social skills training, participated in group activities, and read self help books and I still can't make friends. If anyone has any ideas on how I can improve my social skills and make friends, I'm all ears.

Don't know how to say this without being cheezy, but (1) just be true to yourself (do NOT fake being into something you're not); (2) seem interested in what the other person is saying; and (3) try to form connections about similarities (but seem more interested in their side than yours).

Dumb current example -- if you're in a conversation and you discover the other person likes Game of Thrones, boom, common interest, but ask them what THEY think. "What do you think of Jon's plan to

[+] Spoiler

"? "What do you think was behind Dany going from [blah blah]?" Let them talk about it. Then move into what other fiction stories they like. Maybe it's not many, and they will go into non-fiction movies. Then ask about those.

On and on. Stay true to your interests, but stay tuned into what they are interested in and focus on that in your conversations.

Most importantly, it's just about putting yourself out there. I still have phone phobia when calling someone to see if they want to grab lunch. But in almost five years of practicing, I've been rejected two times. Just go for it.

[Aptitude]

This thread is fantastic. I can't believe the OP is a real person.

I’m very perplexed by OP’s situation. She or he is unemployed, but would rather stay unemployed than going into “shitlaw.” TBH, I don’t even know if that’s a guarantee given that there’s a new crop of graduates now and OP seems to have been unemployed for a little while.

I know many fresh grads like this. People always point to unemployment numbers on LST, but I always wonder what % of those are K-JD fresh grads that would rather be unemployed than take a job in law the had no interest in or jobs that pay way less than they originally wanted. I know people that kept at this for over a year until they actually couldn't find any full-time jobs.

Well after reading this site for years, it seems like few people lateral out of shitlaw practice areas. I would have even less of a chance of lateraling out because of my lack of people/networking skills. I would rather go solo (which would likely go disastrously because I would almost certainly have trouble bringing business in) or quit law before spending career purgatory in shitlaw.

You need to eventually be able to bring business in at more prestigious practices. I'm not sure how you plan to do this if you're bad with people. Also, you'll probably have to kiss far less ass as a public defender than you do in a practice like estate law planning for rich people. Dude at Justice Housing or guy in jail really has no choice but to work with a weirdo like you, he'll have to overlook your social awkwardness. Wheras rich clients have plenty of options.

As for the "quit law" part, I'm not sure why you think you can quit law and easily enter another industry if you suck with people. What field are you going to enter? Are you planning to get a management job? Venture Capital? Finance? Good luck with that. Unless you have a computer science or software engineering degree where they'll ignore how weird you are as long as you deliver code, this is a terrible bet. You'll have a better shot making money spending your efforts at the roulette table.

Your best bet really sounds like you should apply for a staff doc review job at a Am Law 100 firm where they might give you a vague enough title. That way you can get your "prestige" at the big law firm you want. And your people skills won't get in the way because they'll never have you interact with clients, and you won't really have to interact with anyone, or worry about bringing in business.

[Anonymous User]

As for the "quit law" part, I'm not sure why you think you can quit law and easily enter another industry if you suck with people. What field are you going to enter? Are you planning to get a management job? Venture Capital? Finance? Good luck with that. Unless you have a computer science or software engineering degree where they'll ignore how weird you are as long as you deliver code, this is a terrible bet. You'll have a better shot making money spending your efforts at the roulette table.

Your best bet really sounds like you should apply for a staff doc review job at a Am Law 100 firm where they might give you a vague enough title. That way you can get your "prestige" at the big law firm you want. And your people skills won't get in the way because they'll never have you interact with clients, and you won't really have to interact with anyone, or worry about bringing in business.

I never said I was aiming for biglaw or prestige. Firms, government agencies, and nonprofits are all on the table. I am also open to a wide variety of practice areas as long as it isn't ID.

Also, yes my plan would be to go back to school to get an electrical engineering degree.

[impactplayer]

OP, have you seen a doctor about whether you have an underlying condition? Medication might be an option to help with your social skills.

[beeoBoop]

OP, have you seen a doctor about whether you have an underlying condition? Medication might be an option to help with your social skills.

I'll second this. I wont speculate on your situation but from personal experience anxiety, depression, and other conditions are easily treatable

[Aptitude]

I never said I was aiming for biglaw or prestige. Firms, government agencies, and nonprofits are all on the table. I am also open to a wide variety of practice areas as long as it isn't ID.

Also, yes my plan would be to go back to school to get an electrical engineering degree.

Don't get the hate against ID. It's way more cushy than a lot of other options out there (family law, foreclosure, evictions, collections). I have friends who do it, it's rough in the beginning but some of them are in cush in-house jobs with Fortune 500 benefits and nice hours. But, whatever floats your boat.

Electrical engineering, you'll need social skills because you'll work in teams frequently and have several managers. You want to do computer science because of the nature of whiteboard interviewing and hiring. If you can do well enough on those, unless you verbally offend your interviewers and show up naked, they'll probably overlook your lack of social acumen if you can code. Their will probably be a PM to handle a lot of interactions and keep you away from management.

Also, have you considered just being nice and agreeable? It can't be that hard to not annoy an interviewer for a 30 minutes. Just nod and agree with stuff they say. There are plenty of huge weirdos/aholes at law firms - just pretend to be agreeable. Take an acting class.