California V10 Equity Partner taking Qs Forum

[Anonymous User]

2007 law school graduate
2 prior firms before joining firm where I made partner (lateraled years 2 and 4)
Slow day today (corporate practice). Watching GOT on stream and taking Qs.

[Anonymous User]

What do you think of people who did really poorly in law school because of personal issues? Trying to gauge how much this is going to follow me/how much people will view this as reflecting on my relative ability, etc. I know this is a lame insecurity, but who knows, maybe someone else reading also has this problem.

[Anonymous User]

What do you think of people who did really poorly in law school because of personal issues? Trying to gauge how much this is going to follow me/how much people will view this as reflecting on my relative ability, etc. I know this is a lame insecurity, but who knows, maybe someone else reading also has this problem.

Your grades don't matter once you are in. Hell I don't even remember where half of the associates in my own team went to law school. If you lateral that's when people will look and potentially ding you for it or ask you questions about it.

[BansheeScream]

Without getting into too much personal detail if you can't why did you decide to lateral? Do you think you were on partnership track at your first two firms and if not what made your third firm different?

[Anonymous User]

Without getting into too much personal detail if you can't why did you decide to lateral? Do you think you were on partnership track at your first two firms and if not what made your third firm different?

First time I lateraled it was because I was a shitty associate and we were in the dark days of the recession and I knew I would be pushed out if I didn't leave. Second time around I was a way better associate and more thankful for even having a job, but moved to be closer to home/family.

[Anonymous User]

Without getting into too much personal detail if you can't why did you decide to lateral? Do you think you were on partnership track at your first two firms and if not what made your third firm different?

First time I lateraled it was because I was a shitty associate and we were in the dark days of the recession and I knew I would be pushed out if I didn't leave. Second time around I was a way better associate and more thankful for even having a job, but moved to be closer to home/family.

To elaborate on this further, 2006/2007 grads were probably the weakest class in recent memory - the economy was red hot and summer programs were enormous and spending lavishly on events. A lot of people were flushed out of biglaw starting in 2009 and I was somehow lucky enough to first land another role and right my head and work hard at becoming a better lawyer. I don't come from family wealth and the reality that if I got fired I might be out of chances set in and made me grind hard.

[s1m4]

Thanks!

What are your hours like now as a partner?

What makes an associate that you work with a "good associate"? (I know very general, but just to get some idea).

Do you enjoy your job more now that you are a partner compared to when you were an associate? Have lifestyle/work/life balance changes been substantial as you moved up the ranks?

Have you thought about going into inhouse roles or business in general (maybe in a non legal capacity)?

Thank you

[Anonymous User]

Thanks!

What are your hours like now as a partner?

What makes an associate that you work with a "good associate"? (I know very general, but just to get some idea).

Do you enjoy your job more now that you are a partner compared to when you were an associate? Have lifestyle/work/life balance changes been substantial as you moved up the ranks?

Have you thought about going into inhouse roles or business in general (maybe in a non legal capacity)?

Thank you

- Hours get better ever year in terms of billables. Last year I billed 1800 and this year i'm on track for a healthy 1600 or 1700. But my non-billable stuff makes up for it - client development, pitches, meeting, entertainment, associate training, admin stuff like hiring, reviews, office committees, budget.

- The best associates are great at pushing process forward. They don't need to know all the substantive law yet, but they make my life a lot easier when I don't have to pay attention to something and it gets done (with my input as needed). If you are an associate, instead of doing just as you are told, try to think of it as you being the only person on the deal making sure it is getting closed.

- Partner life is way better than associate life. I get in at 9:30 and go home at 5 almost every single day. If I don't want to do something, I push it down to associates. There is more politics to deal with as partners jockey for a bigger share of the pie, but that's OK.

- No, never. The best place for a lawyer is in a law firm.

[JHP]

These threads are always incredibly helpful--thanks for doing this!

1. What is your practice group?
2. How do you view the future health of your practice group, both at your firm, then in the CA market, and then nationally? (Esp. in light of a looming recession)
3. When can you usually tell that an associate is just not cut out for partner, and what kinds of traits do they have/lack that usually lead to that assessment? (Of course, I recognize this answer differs per person and also to some extent per firm.)
4. What do you think differentiated you from your peers who either "only" made non-equity partner, or peers who "only" made counsel?
5. Do you have any advice for associates now that you may or may not feel comfortable sharing openly at your own firm?

[Anonymous User]

Thank you! Apologize but also wanted to ask:

what is the comp like at your level (just a general range)?

what do firms look for when considering who makes partner? what made you stand out and attain partnership?

thank you.

[Anonymous User]

These threads are always incredibly helpful--thanks for doing this!

1. What is your practice group?
2. How do you view the future health of your practice group, both at your firm, then in the CA market, and then nationally? (Esp. in light of a looming recession)
3. When can you usually tell that an associate is just not cut out for partner, and what kinds of traits do they have/lack that usually lead to that assessment? (Of course, I recognize this answer differs per person and also to some extent per firm.)
4. What do you think differentiated you from your peers who either "only" made non-equity partner, or peers who "only" made counsel?
5. Do you have any advice for associates now that you may or may not feel comfortable sharing openly at your own firm?

- Corporate/M&A/PE
- PE is as strong as it's ever been, multiples more in terms of deal activity than when I first started out. I don't see this going away as the asset class continues to grow in size and importance within institutional investors' portfolios. I am not worried about a recession because I've been through the worst one in our lifetimes and even then the economy still bounced back within a few years. We will be OK, deals still will be made and people will always be looking to invest their capital.
- This is a tough question but you kind of just know within the first 6 months or so who has the savvy/intelligence to develop into a lawyer a client can trust with their biggest projects and problems. People can eventually prove you wrong but that's not often the case. In fact the process for getting on the "partner track" starts at the earliest levels where partners staff you on their most important clients and you develop accordingly (vs. putting you on the stuff they don't really care about).
- No idea, but I worked for years for influential partners who handed me good relationships and had my back when it was time (because ultimately if i didn't make it here I could leave and get it elsewhere, so it wasn't completely altruistic for them).

[Anonymous User]

Thank you! Apologize but also wanted to ask:

what is the comp like at your level (just a general range)?

what do firms look for when considering who makes partner? what made you stand out and attain partnership?

thank you.

The year after I made it, my comp jumped 3-4x. I had more cash than I knew what to do with (also there were no longer withholdings so you got a gross of tax amount which made it seem bigger until tax time).
Making partner is a market analysis - the firm will consider whether you would be a good 'owner' of the firm and whether they'd prefer you as a colleague or a competitor.

[Anonymous User]

Appreciate for doing this. Are you in SoCal or NoCal? If you are in NoCal, does your V10 frequently get laterals from Bay Area firms (e.g. WSGR, Cooley, Fenwick, etc.)? How is your firm’s CA office(s) different from them? Also, can you share some realistic advice for incoming summer associates?

[MaxMcMann]

Thank you for contributing your time to this.

What do you picture your future having been if you got told you weren't making the cut year 7 (or whatever the year before partnership is at your firm)?

I've heard it said it's hard to find work for someone who is essentially stamped "reject".

Do the people this happens to usually have some idea it will? If they don't, should they be able to pick up on it?


What was your approach to time management? On the one hand I understand expectations of near total availability, on the other the conventional wisdom seems that unless you set boundaries and carve out personal time, you will get zero respect. How did you strike the balance as an associate or is this paradigm wrong?

[Anonymous User]

Do you think that your hours/lifestyle are much different working in Cali than they would be in NYC or DC?

[Anonymous User]

Appreciate for doing this. Are you in SoCal or NoCal? If you are in NoCal, does your V10 frequently get laterals from Bay Area firms (e.g. WSGR, Cooley, Fenwick, etc.)? How is your firm’s CA office(s) different from them? Also, can you share some realistic advice for incoming summer associates?

We get laterals from all kinds of firms, but of course we tend to favor those from "peer" firms and who have relevant experience in our practice areas. Many of the Bay Area firms specialize in start-up/venture work which we do not do, so we naturally don't get many laterals from there.

Summer associates: quality is way more important than volume when it comes to completing assignments. Nobody of influence will remember if you did a good job on some random stuff sent your way or even did any work at all for them directly or indirectly, but people will talk if you submit work late or of poor quality.

[Anonymous User]

Thank you for contributing your time to this.

What do you picture your future having been if you got told you weren't making the cut year 7 (or whatever the year before partnership is at your firm)?

I've heard it said it's hard to find work for someone who is essentially stamped "reject".

Do the people this happens to usually have some idea it will? If they don't, should they be able to pick up on it?


What was your approach to time management? On the one hand I understand expectations of near total availability, on the other the conventional wisdom seems that unless you set boundaries and carve out personal time, you will get zero respect. How did you strike the balance as an associate or is this paradigm wrong?

I would have lateraled to a firm that would make me partner or go in-house to a client.

Yes if an associate gets a reputation, then people will avoid staffing him/her on their stuff. However, in a huge firm the associate still will have many options to pick up work, but if not then it's time for a fresh start elsewhere.

Maybe I'm old school but I've never said "no" to anybody and I would be peeved if an associate told me flat out "no". "I can't do this right this moment but I will free up at [x] and can work on it then" is an acceptable answer, but don't use it too much. The partners don't ever say "no" to clients and if an associate wants to make it, then the reality is that they need to learn to be available. At my firm an associate who declines assignments won't get a bad review for it as long as they're meeting hours and staying busy, but don't expect the partner you've turned down to be in your corner. Which means that if you are slammed, then say "yes" to the rainmakers and figure out who isn't an important partner so you can say no to them.

[Anonymous User]

Do you think that your hours/lifestyle are much different working in Cali than they would be in NYC or DC?

MUCH better, no question

[MaxMcMann]

Maybe I'm old school but I've never said "no" to anybody and I would be peeved if an associate told me flat out "no". "I can't do this right this moment but I will free up at [x] and can work on it then" is an acceptable answer, but don't use it too much. The partners don't ever say "no" to clients and if an associate wants to make it, then the reality is that they need to learn to be available. At my firm an associate who declines assignments won't get a bad review for it as long as they're meeting hours and staying busy, but don't expect the partner you've turned down to be in your corner. Which means that if you are slammed, then say "yes" to the rainmakers and figure out who isn't an important partner so you can say no to them.

Well, I drew my perception from reading these forums as I'm still in school. Assuming you read this forum at all, are there any persistent myths you see/hear (here or believed by associates in the real world) that you'd like to correct the record on?

How much business development have you done on your own account (and how?) vs. being introduced to clients by partners who trust you and building relationships with them that led you to become a key part of the team?

Any general advice on building a good reputation in your early years?

[Anonymous User]

Your grades don't matter once you are in. Hell I don't even remember where half of the associates in my own team went to law school. If you lateral that's when people will look and potentially ding you for it or ask you questions about it.

Thank you

[BeeTeeZ]

Thank you for your time.

1. Have you noticed a strong correlation between law school grades and performance as a lawyer?

2. Have you noticed a strong correlation between law school rank and performance as a lawyer?

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for doing this. I've got a couple of questions. I'm a first year corporate associate at a lower V100 in the east coast and looking to lateral to SoCal in a couple of years. The partner I currently work for has a very broad practice, does financings, cap markets, M&A, corporate governance etc., but I have an opportunity to specialize by receiving work from other partner's in a specific group (e.g., only M&A). Would a firm like yours prefer to hire a junior associate who is more specialized and is very good in one particular area, or has decent experience across a variety of practice areas?

My second question is with respect to deal flow. I have an opportunity to work on small deals where I would handle most of the work (work directly with partner and no other associates), think around $10-$50 million. But I also have the opportunity to work on relatively bigger deals ($100-$350 million) where I'd mostly be doing diligence and working with a number of associate (hence, less substantive work). Would your firm prefer to hire the junior associate who worked on the smaller deals but had greater responsibility, or the larger more complex deals with less responsibility?

Thanks again.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe I'm old school but I've never said "no" to anybody and I would be peeved if an associate told me flat out "no". "I can't do this right this moment but I will free up at [x] and can work on it then" is an acceptable answer, but don't use it too much. The partners don't ever say "no" to clients and if an associate wants to make it, then the reality is that they need to learn to be available. At my firm an associate who declines assignments won't get a bad review for it as long as they're meeting hours and staying busy, but don't expect the partner you've turned down to be in your corner. Which means that if you are slammed, then say "yes" to the rainmakers and figure out who isn't an important partner so you can say no to them.

Well, I drew my perception from reading these forums as I'm still in school. Assuming you read this forum at all, are there any persistent myths you see/hear (here or believed by associates in the real world) that you'd like to correct the record on?

How much business development have you done on your own account (and how?) vs. being introduced to clients by partners who trust you and building relationships with them that led you to become a key part of the team?

Any general advice on building a good reputation in your early years?

- I don't read these forums to know enough about myths, but one thing I've noticed is that nobody at my firm ever gets fired. They can be terrible and universally hated but the most that usually happens is just a gentle suggestion during review time that other opportunities may be more suitable, but even then if that suggestion is ignored the firm still won't fire the person.

- It's really difficult to land a substantial client on your own - the relationships with the big PE shops are all highly institutionalized and you aren't going to take the work away from another firm just because you happen to have some connection to the GC there. So the way most people do it is the latter - where you are brought on to existing relationships and over time become a key trusted contact for the client. But we do pitch for and get new clients all the time - often they are smaller and it's a bit of a gamble for us as well to put our time and resources into helping them grow because many will eventually fail, but the hope is that out of 100 maybe a few become the next Blackstone/KKR/Ares etc. If that happens you are set for life.

- Work hard, be responsive, don't make silly mistakes. Easier said than done though.

[Anonymous User]

Thank you for your time.

1. Have you noticed a strong correlation between law school grades and performance as a lawyer?

2. Have you noticed a strong correlation between law school rank and performance as a lawyer?

1. Sort of, especially at the junior level where grind is sometimes more important than raw intellectual ability.

2. Not at all.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for doing this. I've got a couple of questions. I'm a first year corporate associate at a lower V100 in the east coast and looking to lateral to SoCal in a couple of years. The partner I currently work for has a very broad practice, does financings, cap markets, M&A, corporate governance etc., but I have an opportunity to specialize by receiving work from other partner's in a specific group (e.g., only M&A). Would a firm like yours prefer to hire a junior associate who is more specialized and is very good in one particular area, or has decent experience across a variety of practice areas?

My second question is with respect to deal flow. I have an opportunity to work on small deals where I would handle most of the work (work directly with partner and no other associates), think around $10-$50 million. But I also have the opportunity to work on relatively bigger deals ($100-$350 million) where I'd mostly be doing diligence and working with a number of associate (hence, less substantive work). Would your firm prefer to hire the junior associate who worked on the smaller deals but had greater responsibility, or the larger more complex deals with less responsibility?

Thanks again.

- We like specialized juniors because we ourselves are all specialized. We aren't alone either - the most successful biglaw firms are weeding out the generalists in favor of folks who only do one thing really well. It's hard to win work from a client for an M&A deal (for example) if you're somebody who dabbles in a bunch of different things vs. a person who only does M&A work, assuming you are all charging roughly the same per hour (and you likely are).

- Both are important - the added responsibility is great for development on a smaller deal, but you also need to learn to be part of a team on a mega deal.