Smart idea or waste of time?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 334284
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Smart idea or waste of time?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:57 pm

I am a 2L at a lower t13 with a 3.6ish gpa (trending upwards) about to summer with a v10's transactional practice group. I am pretty certain I want to be a transactional lawyer and not a litigator, but I do enjoy litigation. In addition, I am a little worried that I either learn I hate big law/transaction work/am not able to do a good job and get pushed out. I am a naturally risk averse person who likes to expand optionality and have insurance plans, so I'm curious what the hive mind thinks of the following.

I have started to think that maybe I should get clerkship application materials ready (like my writing sample and letters of recommendation) during my 3L year in case something happens and I no longer want or are able to pursue a career in transactional big law. I can restart my career as a litigator by doing a federal district court/state supreme court clerkship (unlikely I would be competitive for something better, but I am in fed soc and am very well connected in a couple of Midwestern states). Is is crazy to go through with this extra work? Is this even a viable option? How long is my clerkship application shelf live? I know some judges do not care about classes, but I figured I'd have to take federal jurisdiction as a 3L at a minimum (and I fucking hated Civ Pro/got a B in that course). Is this incorrect?

Arad

Bronze
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:17 pm

Re: Smart idea or waste of time?

Postby Arad » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:38 pm

No, unless chancery court. You don't need to be risk averse. Instead of trying to hedge your “downside” of possibly disliking being a transactional lawyer (which you are pretty certain you want to be), I'd do something productive that will help you be a better transactional lawyer so you can do a good job and avoid getting pushed out. Also, you don’t need a clerkship to have/retain the option of switching to lit when you’re going to a v10 as a 2L.

barkschool

Silver
Posts: 990
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:05 am

Re: Smart idea or waste of time?

Postby barkschool » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:41 am

Anonymous User wrote:I am a 2L at a lower t13 with a 3.6ish gpa (trending upwards) about to summer with a v10's transactional practice group. I am pretty certain I want to be a transactional lawyer and not a litigator, but I do enjoy litigation. In addition, I am a little worried that I either learn I hate big law/transaction work/am not able to do a good job and get pushed out. I am a naturally risk averse person who likes to expand optionality and have insurance plans, so I'm curious what the hive mind thinks of the following.

I have started to think that maybe I should get clerkship application materials ready (like my writing sample and letters of recommendation) during my 3L year in case something happens and I no longer want or are able to pursue a career in transactional big law. I can restart my career as a litigator by doing a federal district court/state supreme court clerkship (unlikely I would be competitive for something better, but I am in fed soc and am very well connected in a couple of Midwestern states). Is is crazy to go through with this extra work? Is this even a viable option? How long is my clerkship application shelf live? I know some judges do not care about classes, but I figured I'd have to take federal jurisdiction as a 3L at a minimum (and I fucking hated Civ Pro/got a B in that course). Is this incorrect?


You’ll probably have an opportunity to take work from all groups as a summer. Do that and pick what you like. Work probably won’t be representative but you can at least talk to a bunch of associates about their role ect

beeoBoop

New
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:21 pm

Re: Smart idea or waste of time?

Postby beeoBoop » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:21 am

Sure, go through with it. The cost is minimal: some time to fill out the app. And if you don't like doing transactional work it will pay dividends and you won't be stuck in a practice you hate until you retire 40 years from now.

At the very least you'll have a polished writing sample and resume, which is always good to have tucked away. There's no real downside since you don't need to ask for letters of rec yet

QContinuum

Moderator
Posts: 2351
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:52 am

Re: Smart idea or waste of time?

Postby QContinuum » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:04 am

beeoBoop wrote:Sure, go through with it. The cost is minimal: some time to fill out the app. And if you don't like doing transactional work it will pay dividends and you won't be stuck in a practice you hate until you retire 40 years from now.

OP is a 2L who will be summering at a V10. They will easily be able to try both transactional work and litigation and "switch" into lit should they prefer. No clerkship required.

beeoBoop

New
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:21 pm

Re: Smart idea or waste of time?

Postby beeoBoop » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:33 am

QContinuum wrote:
beeoBoop wrote:Sure, go through with it. The cost is minimal: some time to fill out the app. And if you don't like doing transactional work it will pay dividends and you won't be stuck in a practice you hate until you retire 40 years from now.

OP is a 2L who will be summering at a V10. They will easily be able to try both transactional work and litigation and "switch" into lit should they prefer. No clerkship required.


Right but if he wants a fed clerkship (which is looked on favorably by all firms) he needs to get moving on it now. The only cost is the time it takes filling out an app, which is minimal.

QContinuum

Moderator
Posts: 2351
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:52 am

Re: Smart idea or waste of time?

Postby QContinuum » Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:25 pm

beeoBoop wrote:
QContinuum wrote:
beeoBoop wrote:Sure, go through with it. The cost is minimal: some time to fill out the app. And if you don't like doing transactional work it will pay dividends and you won't be stuck in a practice you hate until you retire 40 years from now.

OP is a 2L who will be summering at a V10. They will easily be able to try both transactional work and litigation and "switch" into lit should they prefer. No clerkship required.


Right but if he wants a fed clerkship (which is looked on favorably by all firms) he needs to get moving on it now. The only cost is the time it takes filling out an app, which is minimal.

He can take the summer to see whether he wants transactional or lit. If he wants lit, or is seriously indecisive, he can apply to clerkships in 3L or even after graduation (it's increasingly common to clerk later instead of straight out of law school). There is no need for OP to rush into the clerkship game now. He could very well find during the summer that he loves corporate and hates lit work.

Anonymous User
Posts: 334284
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Smart idea or waste of time?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:53 pm

Arad wrote:No, unless chancery court. You don't need to be risk averse. Instead of trying to hedge your “downside” of possibly disliking being a transactional lawyer (which you are pretty certain you want to be), I'd do something productive that will help you be a better transactional lawyer so you can do a good job and avoid getting pushed out. Also, you don’t need a clerkship to have/retain the option of switching to lit when you’re going to a v10 as a 2L.

What should OP do then to be productive? Take business school classes like corporate finance? Easy classes to boost gpa?

User avatar
RedGiant

Moderator
Posts: 405
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:30 am

Re: Smart idea or waste of time?

Postby RedGiant » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:27 pm

There's any number of productive things you could do to be a better transactional lawyer:

- Read Tim Copeland's Valuation and do the Valuation workbook
- Watch Hotshot videos
- Read forms and practice area guides on PLC
- Read any of MoFo's securities guides
- Understand financial accounting
- Do reasearch to understand which area of transactional practice lights you up: Securities, M&A, Capital Markets, EC/VC work, Bank M&A, CorpFin, Lending, etc.
- Read the WSJ, Businessweek, FT, Fortune to have a better sense of general business jargon and trends
- Get good at securities research using intelliconnect/EDGAR, Securities Mosaic, Corporate Counsel, ACC, etc.
- Read recent S-1s to get a sense of recent risk factors
- Better understand proxy rules
- Understand listing rules
- Read anything you can on M&A (Bonfire of the Vanities, Vault Guides, The Joy of M&A)
- Improve your drafting skills (Fox on Contracts, Stark)

That's just a quick list of stuff that would make you a better transactional lawyer....there's a million things you could do.

MaxMcMann

Bronze
Posts: 122
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:58 pm

Re: Smart idea or waste of time?

Postby MaxMcMann » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:05 am

Sorry--"The _Art_ of M&A" by Reed et al!

What is The Joy of M&A? Couldn't find anything on that.



Return to “Legal Employment?

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.