Tax LLM: NYU at sticker or GULC with $$ Forum

[Anonymous User]

I am the anon a few posts above.

I don’t disagree NYU is top program and probably has some advantages. I just don’t think it’s a big one if your JD is already T14 and you had decent grades due to my own experience. I had offers before grades came out so I thought it was pretty obvious the tax LLM is secondary.

Of course it’s also possible NYU tax LLM is prestigious enough they didn’t care about grades. I really didn’t get that impression though during interviews.

If you are big law or bust, I think you should pay the 30k and improve your chances by even a bit. Big law, especially NYC general tax isn’t a sure thing even for strong performers so every little % helps.

Do you have any idea about the position of a JD from T25 who had top 30-40% grade? Is there any chance for a candidate like this to reach Biglaws?

Yes. Your profile is actually really typical of Tax LLMs at NYU. Everyone I know with your JD profile at least got big law interviews and some (but not all) got offers. Even people with sub 3.3 got offers but I think they are in minority.

You probably have to do really well (like 3.6+ solidly honors range well) to get decent shots at NYC tax though. Judging by other posts in thread and what I have heard, 3.4-5 gets you into exec comp/salt range easily. Anything below 3.3, especially if you don’t interview well, you may be looking at big 4 as most likely outcome which really isn’t bad.

[Anonymous User]

I am the anon a few posts above.

I don’t disagree NYU is top program and probably has some advantages. I just don’t think it’s a big one if your JD is already T14 and you had decent grades due to my own experience. I had offers before grades came out so I thought it was pretty obvious the tax LLM is secondary.

Of course it’s also possible NYU tax LLM is prestigious enough they didn’t care about grades. I really didn’t get that impression though during interviews.

Edit: I went to NYU

If you are big law or bust, I think you should pay the 30k and improve your chances by even a bit. Big law, especially NYC general tax isn’t a sure thing even for strong performers so every little % helps.

Do you have any idea about the position of a JD from T25 who had top 30-40% grade? Is there any chance for a candidate like this to reach Biglaws?

I graduated at median from a T25 and my LLM GPA after the first semester was a very low3.1 or so. I got offers from the big4 and biglaw (v50 ranges). I was K-JD and didn’t have any unique experience. I had summered at a regional firm before.

FYI, I ended up taking an offer at a less prestigious biglaw firm closer to home.

NYU?

[foreigntaxllm]

OP here and thanks everyone for their kind advice.

I received a small amount of $$ from NYU so I decided to enroll there. I will see a year later if I made the right move.

[QContinuum]

OP here and thanks everyone for their kind advice.

I received a small amount of $$ from NYU so I decided to enroll there. I will see a year later if I made the right move.

Congrats and best wishes!

[icansortofmath]

Congrats.

[Anonymous User]

Current GULC tax LLM person here.

While OP has already decided, I can tell you that the difference between NYU and GULC comes down to NY Biglaw. If you want NY Biglaw, then 100% NYU. If you want Biglaw anywhere else or Fed Govt/Big 4/Boutique, then both NYU and GULC are on pretty equal ground (although the GULC externships turning into jobs has been a pretty good advantage for ppl who want to be in DC).

While your JD somewhat matters to get the best positions, I've seen TTT JDs with ok LLM grades get Biglaw jobs as long as you are ok with doing some Exec Comp or SALT work.

[Anonymous User]

Current GULC tax LLM person here.

While OP has already decided, I can tell you that the difference between NYU and GULC comes down to NY Biglaw. If you want NY Biglaw, then 100% NYU. If you want Biglaw anywhere else or Fed Govt/Big 4/Boutique, then both NYU and GULC are on pretty equal ground (although the GULC externships turning into jobs has been a pretty good advantage for ppl who want to be in DC).

While your JD somewhat matters to get the best positions, I've seen TTT JDs with ok LLM grades get Biglaw jobs as long as you are ok with doing some Exec Comp or SALT work.

Take this with a grain of salt. I’m in a secondary market and every attorney at the large firms with an LLM has their LLM from NYU. I don’t think GT is bad at all, but for someone to say it places just as well as NYU outside of NY Biglaw is incorrect. I know people in my class then went to TTTT law schools and got biglaw in secondary cities no problem. I don’t know if the same would’ve been the case at GT.

If you want to do gov, GT is a no-brainer. However, for nearly everything else, NYU is the better option.

Anon because I don’t want to out myself or my classmates

[Anonymous User]

What if you're a current GULC student with the option of pursuing a joint JD-LLM (so save 1 semester's worth of tuition)? Considering this because am bottom 25% of the class (though have an A in FIT). Goal is biglaw, but big4 is an acceptable outcome. Would a GULC LLM be better in this case than an NYU LLM (both because of time saved and $ saved)?

[icansortofmath]

I'd talk to OCS and just ask. And I'd make sure you get access to the TIP that happens just after you graduate.

I'd also think about whether going to NYU to kind of reset your transcript and maybe try to get median/above median NYU Tax LLM transcript could help. I really really really don't know.

If I were you, I'd look on LinkedIn for people with GULC JDs and NYU Tax LLMs and ask them why and how that worked out for them... and ask people who're doing the JD/LLM of course.

My instinct is as long as you get access to TIP, it probably makes sense to do the JD/LLM. If not, you definitely should do the full year.

[foreigntaxllm]

OP here, also want to add that although I am in a big law, I am on a "foreign legal consultant" sort of role and get paid on local rate (which in USD is about $65k per year), which is a big reason why I want to come back to US for another shot at big law/big 4. This arrangement is pretty common in Asia these days for K-JD nationals who has not prior corp/biglaw experience. Will this lower the value of this experience in my resume?

Quite frankly a US JD and US Bar does not give one any advantage in terms of corp work compared to students educated locally or in UK/AUS or anywhere else where the cost of law school was much cheaper and even local pay scale pays off. Not so much for students who spent USD200k for the US JD though. Which is why this time I would kill to stay in US for any biglaw/big 4/decent law related job. The reality is that, even if you are in US big law for less than a year and couldn't get work visa, you most likely can still link with a headhunter who can find you a job in Asia big law that pays US scale + COLA. A couple of my friends did that.

But the risk of course is you may end up where you began considering how tough the US market is for internationals these days. Opportunity cost is about USD125-130k (90k cost plus 35-40k I could have saved).

As I approach the time I must give my employer advanced notice I couldn't help but think about this. Any input/advice to help ease my nerves?

[foreigntaxllm]

Just to follow up a bit if I am not making myself clear enough. I see more and more (top school) US JD students from Aisa like me, who has no prior corp/biglaw experience before JD and couldn't find a biglaw/decent law job in US (whatever the reasons) and then come back to Asia and end up getting a non-associate title and paid on local rates (40-50k on the low end and 120k on the high end, depending on firm), similar or equal to law students from a local or non-US foreign schools (and in many cases, college grads because Asian/UK/AUS schools tend to have law school at undergrad level).

I don't blame the employers for doing this - quite frankly having a US JD is neither sufficient or necessary condition for doing corp work in Asia. But then I ask myself what is the point of me spending 200k for the (top) US JD if I end up in a job that doesn't really require or value it. Which is why I want to come back to US market so that like my US JD then actually becomes a must.

And also unlike corp work, I think (correct me if I am wrong) what you learn in tax llm classes actually prepares you for the work you do in the future (true that I never did any tax work before so correct me if I am wrong) because this is such a rule-heavy practice. But for corp work I feel like what you learn in class (poisonous pill, fiduciary duty, etc) doesn't really prepare you for day to day junior corp work (figuring out whether we need this or that permit/approval from whom to buy this company/asset; what forms need to be filed to whom; look at DD raw materials and point out risks to clients; being asked to draft a board/SH resolution or an AoA for anew formed JV company; etc, at least in Asia; never did any corp work in US so cannot comment). And 99% of the time these are local law related, nothing to do with US laws.

Not saying that there's no value in US JD. Just that I (and I am sure a lot others) feel pretty frustrated about spending all this money for it and then it doesn't really give you an advantage in local market. This is the other important reason why I want to do the tax LLM - because a US JD and tax llm is basically a must for US tax work. I feel that this way it maximizes the value of my background.

Am I right in thinking this? Appreciate any input/advice.