Is the prestige of all AUSA positions in the same district more or less equal? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Is it more prestigious to be a criminal AUSA as opposed to civil? Is it more prestigious to do white collar crime than to do gangs/drugs? Is affirmative civil less prestigious than defensive civil? Is appellate more prestigious than all of the above? Or are they more or less the same? Within the same district, of course.

Just wondering about the varying prestige level of these various AUSA jobs and how difficult they are to get.

[Anonymous User]

I’m an AUSA at what many consider a “prestigious” USAO. I can tell you within the office, all criminal AUSAs are considered the same. People are in varying units but I’ve never heard anyone ever discuss unit prestige. Obviously AUSAs in fraud and cyber are well positioned for private sector exit options whereas gang/violent crime prosecutors often have more trial experience and highly publicized cases and get a lot of respect for the work they do.

I don’t really ever see civil AUSAs, but I think they enjoy the same respect as any other AUSA.

[Anonymous User]

Agreed. Some groups are harder to get into (at least in the offices I know), but it’s not about prestige - it’s just supply/demand based on the workload in that particular office. Respect within the office is very much about ability and not the kind of cases you work.

I would say that the appellate attorneys in the offices I’ve worked have been very very highly respected. But it’s not because appellate is prestigious per se, it’s because they’re fucking smart and save people’s asses regularly.

And the civil people in my office are absolutely all respected as much as any other AUSA.

I’m speculating a little here because I’m not in civil, but think that affirmative civil work is maybe a little more “sophisticated” than defensive, in that you’re running investigations rather than defending employment/VA benefits/slip and falls etc, which can be fairly mundane. But again, none of that is really about “prestige.”

There isn’t really a clear hierarchy of easier/harder to get based on prestige. There are more criminal AUSAs than civil so more openings. But they’re often not advertised as violent crime or drugs or appellate - you just get hired into the criminal division (not always, especially if there’s funding for a specific position, but mostly). I think there are also more defensive civil positions than affirmative (this could vary by district I suppose).

I know the positions are sought after and competitive to get and so on, but I guess in the end I don’t feel like “prestige” is even really relevant. I’m very glad to have my job and I take pride in it but it doesn’t feel at all “prestigious.”

[LBJ's Hair]

Feel like it's worth elaborating on the Civil-Criminal dichotomy, because the common perception (which may be incorrect, to be clear) is that Civil at say, SDNY/EDNY, is a materially easier job to get than Criminal, and the exits/career advancement potential is not the same. Buddies who clerked in EDNY/SDNY/2d Cir. thought there was a meaningful difference in attorney quality between the two Divisions. Criminal's briefs were much better, their AUSAs were more prepared, etc.

Possible that people are just *wrong* and this is confirmation bias. Or that this is unique to SDNY/EDNY, where SDNY Crim in particular has a sort of unique allure to a certain sort of young, ambitious lawyer. But I dunno, figured worth discussing, since posters have treated it as self-evident that there's no difference between the Divisions and that was not my intuition.

[Anonymous User]

Feel like it's worth elaborating on the Civil-Criminal dichotomy, because the common perception (which may be incorrect, to be clear) is that Civil at say, SDNY, is a materially easier job to get than criminal. Buddies who clerked in SDNY/2d Cir. thought there was a meaningful difference in attorney quality between the two Divisions. Criminal's briefs were much better, their AUSAs were more prepared, etc.

As someone who has clerked in this district, I will give you the (maybe incorrect) 411 others in the district told me:

-When mentioning surprise that an attorney’s lawyering was not stellar notwithstanding that so-and-so person was a former AUSA, a judge noted that she was a “civil” one, not a criminal one, implying that the standards for excellence were slightly different (this was re a civil case, btw).

-at least in SDNY/EDNY, everyone has to go through rotations in general crimes I think and narcotics. I’ve been told that there absolutely is jockeying to get into certain units within the crim division that lead into biglaw practice.

Idk. All of this is secondhand.

[Anonymous User]

I'm the anon who commented about civil AUSAs getting the same respect in the office. I can see the distinction people are making about the civil AUSAs. I think one factor is that if you're interested in doing that kind of civil defensive work, you can do similar work at a biglaw gig and make a lot more money. The USAO has good benefits, decent pay, and probably better hours, but there are arguably better gigs doing similar work, and probably more sophisticated work. That isn't really the case for criminal. So the competition may be different and I can see there being some difference in perception between the two divisions. I also think this varies by district - I've worked in places with small legal markets rather than the bigger prestigious places.

I also think that affirmative civil would be a different matter than defensive, because like criminal, it's something pretty much only the government does.

Re: jockeying to get into different groups - I totally get that (especially somewhere like SDNY) some groups have better exit options into biglaw than others and that there is jockeying to get into those groups. I don't think that translates into those groups having more "prestige" though, in part b/c it totally depends on your goals. If you want to go from the USAO to be a white-collar biglaw partner, yeah, you need to work in the white collar group. But not everyone wants that. Where I worked, there was jockeying to get into the specialized groups from general crimes, because the office needed way more general crimes people than anyone else. It was harder to get (say) white collar, but that didn't create any kind of hierarchy in the office where white collar was "better" - it was very much about your personal ability as perceived in the office.

And it still varies by district - I worked in an office with a small white collar group and a small biglaw market. The cases that group worked were relatively minor/run of the mill, because that was the local market, and working that white collar group probably wasn't going to get you a biglaw white collar gig.

I mostly just disagree with the OP's focus on prestige.

[Anonymous User]

Op here. Appreciate all the responses, really interesting to read -- particularly the post from the clerk and from the current AUSA. I completely understand the notion that some positions, while more difficult to get than others, are not automatically more "prestigious" than others (e.g., big law in San Diego or Miami can be harder to get than big law in NY, but obv not necessarily more prestigious).

Rereading my original question, I think its almost a two parter: whether there was varying levels of prestige and varying levels of "difficulty to get."

From reading this thread, I'm gathering now is that there is absolutely varying levels of "difficulty to get" among AUSA positions but not so much varying levels of prestige.

[Anonymous User]

TBF (I’m an anon AUSA above) I think being an AUSA in SDNY is absolutely more prestigious (and harder to get) than being an AUSA where I am - SDNY would never hire me in a million years.

But yeah, if you’re talking about within one district, there isn’t really varying levels of prestige.

[Anonymous User]

TBF (I’m an anon AUSA above) I think being an AUSA in SDNY is absolutely more prestigious (and harder to get) than being an AUSA where I am - SDNY would never hire me in a million years.

But yeah, if you’re talking about within one district, there isn’t really varying levels of prestige.

Yeah, I was largely talking about within the same district. Agree that SDNY is both more prestigious and more difficult to get than most other districts.

[Anonymous User]

Posting anon because I want to be honest and to not out myself...

I’m an AUSA in a larger office that isn’t in NY/DC/CA. I’ve been watching this thread with a mixture of bemusement and ire. It is clear that OP shares many of the same types of concerns as others posters on TLS, that is concerns which burn white-hot for those who have not yet had the benefit of time and experience in the legal world, and which are of little import for those who have.

I know brilliant attorneys in our civil section, and I’m cleaning up messes left behind attorneys in our criminal section. There’s just no hard rule to one side or the other being “better.”

As far as within criminal sections, the idea of prestige is what you make of it.

White collar is sexy insofar as it’s likely easier to see exit opportunities. But many of us look around and see that the majority of our law school colleagues are miserable in their firms. Moat of us think we’ve got the best damn job an attorney could have, so what’s prestigious about being able to leave if you wouldn’t want to?

AUSAs in the violent crimes sections get to deal with real victims. I’ve had experience with those kinds of cases so I think I can speak to this: when you convict someone of a terrible crime, the parents of the little girl who the defendant victimized think of you as the most prestigious BAMF on the planet. What matters more, the opinion of masses you haven’t and won’t ever run across, or the thoughts of the people who you actually meet?

AUSAs who deal with narcotics trafficking don’t have a “white collar” prestige gold-star, but they do get to do some awesome cases. T-III work is no joke, as it involves in-depth analysis of complex matters spanning months of investigations and can spawn lengthy litigation.

If you’re looking to come into our world, ask yourself where you want to live, what kind of office and colleagues you want to be surrounded by. I think you meant it as a harmless query, but it’s not what people here give a damn about. Not one bit.

[Anonymous User]

If you’re looking to come into our world, ask yourself where you want to live, what kind of office and colleagues you want to be surrounded by. I think you meant it as a harmless query, but it’s not what people here give a damn about. Not one bit.

Yeah, this is what i was trying to get at by

I know the positions are sought after and competitive to get and so on, but I guess in the end I don’t feel like “prestige” is even really relevant. I’m very glad to have my job and I take pride in it but it doesn’t feel at all “prestigious."

and

I mostly just disagree with the OP's focus on prestige.