Dream job is to defend DUIs... What are my options? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Currently working in the litigation group of a v50 NY firm. I graduated with honors from a T6 (if that matters). No real criminal defense involvement except for an internship.

I like the idea of defending DUI's partly because I'm abnormally sympathetic to any crime without an overt intent element (same applies to manslaughter and any other form of criminal negligence).

I also figure DUI's are super common and span across socio-economic backgrounds so the pay is likely better than some other crimes. Pay is fairly important to me - I obviously don't expect a big law salary, but I also can't afford to live off of a PD salary either.

Finally, I'm craving real life lawyer action. I'm starting to realize it's going to be a long time before I do anything in biglaw that's remotely lawyerly. I don't mind the long hours, but I just experienced a partner who was hesitant to let me second-chair a deposition prep session...

What sort of opportunities are there for this kind of criminal defense? Is it mostly a solo practice type thing? If so, how much and what type of experience would someone need to hang a shingle?

[Bingo_Bongo]

Yeah, blue collar criminal defense work for good money is mainly a solo practitioner thing. Pretty much all the firms that hire associates for blue collar criminal defense work (like the ones you hear on the radio) actually pay associates quite a bit less than they'd make as a Deputy Public Defender in a good jurisdiction. When clients are only paying a flat $5k, there's not much profit available to be spreading around.

Does your current firm pay associates to go through TAP attorney programs at DA or City Attorney offices for trial experience?

[AVBucks4239]

Before going out on my own, I had a similar thought as you -- I could build a criminal defense practice some day, and the center of it could be being THE attorney in town known for defending DUIs.

So, I convinced my firm to let me get on the public defender's list. I told them it would get me in the courts, allow me to know the judges/magistrates/bailiffs, and then ultimately, our firm could keep any criminal defense issues that our clients ran into. It was a win-win for the firm so they let me do it.

Now, I'm sure a V50 is a completely different animal than my 20-25 lawyer firm in a relatively small town, and I'm not sure if this is even realistic at a V50. I'll let others chime in on that. Maybe you could get in on some white collar criminal cases, and get on the PD list? I have no idea.

But I think if you want to do it, you need to get on the public defender's list. Some counties have a list, others make you work for the actual PD office; you want to find a county where it's a list. This will give you the exposure I'm talking about. It's kind of crazy, but get one guy off of something and he will refer clients to you in spades.

Two caveats. I do think you will eventually need to go out on your own if this is all you want to do. If you do that, I would save about six months of expenses before going out on your own. You will also need to run a financially lean practice, and you can PM me if you want to discuss.

Perhaps more importantly, it's not very easy to get people off of DUIs, so it is going to be extremely difficult just building a practice around that. I went to DUI CLE's and thought I'd be some sort of expert, but honestly, the majority of DUI cases are open and shut, so it's hard to build a practice around that.

You'll want to be much, much more diverse. I've approached it by advertising niche areas but practicing generally. It's starting to take hold over time, but I think you are misguided if you think you are just going to open a DUI/criminal defense office and think you're going to keep the lights on. You must be broader at first.

But to answer your question, I think the only way to do what you want is to build your own practice and make it happen. It's certainly possible.

[tbaker757]

I agree with the above. I am solo and primarily do criminal defense. The criminal element talks (a lot) and reputation is everything. Move to a place that does private appointments for indigent clients. Get on the list and do as much court appointed as you can. In my case I got myself on 5 counties lists and drove all the time. Later I could cut back. You really need to either solo or possibly find an older established attorney that would let you into an eat what you kill arrangement to defray costs. Doing just DUI's is tough. In my state there is such a person who is the king of DUIs but thats ONE person in the state and will go anywhere in the state. Has literally written the book on DUIs. You can do a lot better just doing criminal work in general and you will find a fair number of DUIs if develop any sort of rep.

[QContinuum]

I agree with the above. I am solo and primarily do criminal defense. The criminal element talks (a lot) and reputation is everything. Move to a place that does private appointments for indigent clients. Get on the list and do as much court appointed as you can. In my case I got myself on 5 counties lists and drove all the time. Later I could cut back. You really need to either solo or possibly find an older established attorney that would let you into an eat what you kill arrangement to defray costs. Doing just DUI's is tough. In my state there is such a person who is the king of DUIs but thats ONE person in the state and will go anywhere in the state. Has literally written the book on DUIs. You can do a lot better just doing criminal work in general and you will find a fair number of DUIs if develop any sort of rep.

The issue for OP, from what I've read, is that he wants to defend only/largely crimes without bad intent:

I like the idea of defending DUI's partly because I'm abnormally sympathetic to any crime without an overt intent element (same applies to manslaughter and any other form of criminal negligence).

So I'm not sure if a practice based on building a book of business from the "criminal element" would appeal to OP. But I agree that from the solos I know, I don't see a realistic path to hanging a shingle and keeping the lights on as a "DUI specialist."

Finally, I'm craving real life lawyer action. I'm starting to realize it's going to be a long time before I do anything in biglaw that's remotely lawyerly.

It sounds like, between OP's lack of any particular background in/exposure to/attachment to blue-collar criminal defense work, and OP's desire for a solid, reliable salary (which I read to be ~$100k+), OP's best option is actually to lateral to a litigation boutique that gives its associates more responsibility earlier. I think that would suit OP's desires and skill set much more than walking out of BigLaw and hanging up a shingle as the new ambulance chaser in town.

[Aptitude]

What sort of opportunities are there for this kind of criminal defense? Is it mostly a solo practice type thing? If so, how much and what type of experience would someone need to hang a shingle?

I know solo Attorneys that do this, they charge a flat fee, and another fee on top of that if it goes to trial. A lot of the times their clients plea out. Under this model, high revenue streams is obviously correlated with high volume. They may advertise as DUI attorneys, but they don't just specialize in DUIs. They'll generally take other criminal cases, up to whatever seriousness they deem they're comfortable working on. Some of them don't want the pressure of felonies, so stick with misdemeanors. But it comes naturally with DUI practice, because sometimes when someone is charged with a DUI, they may also have marijuana or other drugs in the car. Or maybe they were drunk and belligerent towards the officer, speeding, driving without a license, violation of probation etc.

There is one hat advertises extremely aggressively to get his name out there. You can try to network, but the field seems so saturated I would imagine you need to spend on advertising to draw a large income. You can PM me if you want and I can link the ads.

There's a lot of advice here for you getting on a public defender's list to get experience. There's another way - you can offer to do appearances for busy criminal law attorneys. The busy criminal law attorneys have to drive a lot, because like I said prior, high revenue streams rely on high volume of cases. So they often cover at least 3 counties, and have to be in multiple courtrooms within a tight time frame. They'll often pay other attorneys to appear in court for them to do the initial arraignment, or even a motions hearing.

If you want some time in a courtroom, arguing criminal matters because you're bored in big law, you should try that first. Reach out to a few criminal law attorneys and tell them you'll do appearances for them. If you're reliable, it's actually extremely easy money. I know criminal law attorneys that will pay 4 digits for an appearance - basically what amounts to 15-20 minutes of actual legal work, and whatever distance you drive.

There are some older attorneys that are well-networked and liked by other attorneys, who make 6 digits just by doing appearances. Which has to be one of the easiest legal jobs out there.

[nealric]

The poster above who mentioned a "King" of DUIs seems to be onto a theme. It seems it's fairly common for a region to have a small handful of "DUI Kings" who do incredible volume. You'll need a large ad budget and administrative support staff.

Personally, I think it would get old rather fast. There are only so many possible defenses for DUIs, and only so many fact patterns. I imagine cases would start blurring together after a while.

[QContinuum]

Personally, I think it would get old rather fast. There are only so many possible defenses for DUIs, and only so many fact patterns. I imagine cases would start blurring together after a while.

That's a great point and I entirely agree. How many variations could there possibly be? There's a potential argument that there was no valid reason for the car to be stopped in the first place - the driver wasn't weaving or driving erratically, and it wasn't a general checkpoint. So the stop was a 4A violation and the DUI needs to be tossed. Maybe the defense is that the particular BAC test/device used was unreliable (this is probably the single most typical defense), so there's insufficient evidence that the driver was actually drunk. Or maybe the driver was concededly drunk, but was legitimately in fear of his life and had no choice but to drive drunk to escape his assailants. I mean, that's about it as far as defenses go. There aren't really many nuances.

[BeeTeeZ]

I know someone who makes millions defending DUIs. He lives in a waterfront mansion and graduated below median at a TTT. Dude works like forty hours a week (max) and makes $2+ million a year. Oh and he's off by 4 pm every day. And he's 28.

I hate him with a passion.

[nealric]

I know someone who makes millions defending DUIs. He lives in a waterfront mansion and graduated below median at a TTT. Dude works like forty hours a week (max) and makes $2+ million a year. Oh and he's off by 4 pm every day. And he's 28.

I hate him with a passion.

For every one like that, there are dozens with similar practices who scrape by. Practices like that are often very "winner take all" within the local market.

[Aptitude]

I know someone who makes millions defending DUIs. He lives in a waterfront mansion and graduated below median at a TTT. Dude works like forty hours a week (max) and makes $2+ million a year. Oh and he's off by 4 pm every day. And he's 28.

I hate him with a passion.

For every one like that, there are dozens with similar practices who scrape by. Practices like that are often very "winner take all" within the local market.

You could say that about almost any business endeavor. If that was the attitude, none of the Fortune 500 or billion dollar start-ups would have ever happened.

"There are dozens of similar search engines who scrape by. The market is already dominated by Yahoo."

"There are hundreds of social networks. It's winner take all within the market, and MySpace and MSN are already the winners."

"There are thousands of law firms. No one respects Mergers & Acquisitions, you'll end up scraping by."

OP clearly has an entrepreneurial mindset if he's going to quit his corporate office job to try and start his own firm. OP - go talk to some experienced, fiscally successful DUI Attorneys. Then go talk to some entrepreneurs and business owners. That's the type of person you need to be taking advice from. Even the owner of the busy bar or restaurant across the street from your office. They'll tell you how to survive in a crowded, competitive market.

[QContinuum]

I know someone who makes millions defending DUIs. He lives in a waterfront mansion and graduated below median at a TTT. Dude works like forty hours a week (max) and makes $2+ million a year. Oh and he's off by 4 pm every day. And he's 28.

I hate him with a passion.

For every one like that, there are dozens with similar practices who scrape by. Practices like that are often very "winner take all" within the local market.

You could say that about almost any business endeavor. If that was the attitude, none of the Fortune 500 or billion dollar start-ups would have ever happened.

Sure, but the fact that Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates succeeded wildly doesn't mean it's a good idea for any particular undergrad to drop out of college. The fact that someone is inevitably going to win the Powerball jackpot doesn't mean it's a good idea for any particular person to drop $100 on Powerball tickets. The fact that Michael Cohen succeeded wildly - at least for a number of years - doesn't mean it's a good idea for any particular 0L to attend an unranked law school.

OP clearly has an entrepreneurial mindset if he's going to quit his corporate office job to try and start his own firm. OP - go talk to some experienced, fiscally successful DUI Attorneys. Then go talk to some entrepreneurs and business owners. That's the type of person you need to be taking advice from. Even the owner of the busy bar or restaurant across the street from your office. They'll tell you how to survive in a crowded, competitive market.

Taking legal career advice from the "owner of the busy bar or restaurant across the street" is a recipe for disaster.

[cavalier1138]

You could say that about almost any business endeavor. If that was the attitude, none of the Fortune 500 or billion dollar start-ups would have ever happened.

Sure. And we should be glad that there are enough risk-averse people to keep pushing innovations like that. But every single one of those companies left the charred remains of hundreds of failed start-ups in their wake, each run by someone with the same go-get-'em-tiger attitude.

If OP is truly passionate about DUI defense (more power to them), then I really hope they become the "DUI King" of their jurisdiction. But the far more likely outcome is that they barely scrape by on court appointments. It's also highly unlikely that the "entrepreneurial spirit" has anything to do with achieving success in that field, because it's not like the main DUI attorney has innovated some crazy new way to defend DUI charges. It's far more likely that they were in the right place at the right time, and/or that they had enough money to buy the retiring king's practice. Success stories are great, but you can't focus on them to the exclusion of all negative information.

[nealric]

I know someone who makes millions defending DUIs. He lives in a waterfront mansion and graduated below median at a TTT. Dude works like forty hours a week (max) and makes $2+ million a year. Oh and he's off by 4 pm every day. And he's 28.

I hate him with a passion.

For every one like that, there are dozens with similar practices who scrape by. Practices like that are often very "winner take all" within the local market.

You could say that about almost any business endeavor. If that was the attitude, none of the Fortune 500 or billion dollar start-ups would have ever happened.

"There are dozens of similar search engines who scrape by. The market is already dominated by Yahoo."

"There are hundreds of social networks. It's winner take all within the market, and MySpace and MSN are already the winners."

"There are thousands of law firms. No one respects Mergers & Acquisitions, you'll end up scraping by."

OP clearly has an entrepreneurial mindset if he's going to quit his corporate office job to try and start his own firm. OP - go talk to some experienced, fiscally successful DUI Attorneys. Then go talk to some entrepreneurs and business owners. That's the type of person you need to be taking advice from. Even the owner of the busy bar or restaurant across the street from your office. They'll tell you how to survive in a crowded, competitive market.

If OP wants to take the risk, more power to them. My point was only to say that one shouldn't quit a steady job so start such a venture without an understanding that it is a risk, and that raking in the millions is far from a typical result. Additionally, running a high-volume DUI practice isn't exactly a revolutionary business idea.

By the way- there was never a mindset that "nobody respects mergers and acquisitions." What people did not respect when Skadden was an upstart were hostile takeovers.

[AVBucks4239]

But the far more likely outcome is that they barely scrape by on court appointments.

I know this forum is full of very risk-averse people, but this mindset of "Big Law" or "scraping by on court appointments" just has to stop.

If OP wants to take a leap of faith and start his own practice, then his primary goal should be to market himself in that regard, but to practice generally until his niche supports an entire practice.

I myself market business law, employment law, and property law. Kind of a hogwash but it basically promotes to affluent people, so it works in my small town. But I accept damn near anything that comes through the door (so long as it pays).

I started my practice on April 13 of last year, and to date, I am just shy of bringing in dollar number $100,000 ($87,000 of that being profit). And let me be clear here -- I am an absolutely nobody. I do practice in my hometown, but my family has absolutely zero connections. I went to a public high school, Ohio State for undergrad, and Ohio State for law school. I got mediocre grades in law school. I practiced at a mid-sized firm for about 4 years before going out on my own. My first month of invoices were for four clients.

It's honestly not that hard to make a really decent living on your own. Yes, I do criminal appointment work. Yes, I do local appearance counsel work (pays $75-100 to cover a hearing). Yes, I take on goofy cases. But it's easier than when I was working at a firm.

Now, building up to a specific niche? That will take time--lots of social media marketing, lots of handshaking. Probably years. I have not gotten there yet, although I am starting to see referrals start coming in, especially on the business law front, and I might be narrowing down to just business law and employment law here within a year or so (especially since the employment stuff ties nicely into the business stuff).

But if OP has common sense and a desire to make it work, he will have a profitable solo practice. Whether it ever morphs into a DUI specialty practice is a different inquiry, but that alone should not deter him from making that leap.

[cavalier1138]

But the far more likely outcome is that they barely scrape by on court appointments.

I know this forum is full of very risk-averse people, but this mindset of "Big Law" or "scraping by on court appointments" just has to stop.

Then it's a really good thing I never said that. The OP indicated an interest in DUI defense and only DUI defense. If they don't become the "DUI King" of their region, then yes, they will probably have to scrape by on court appointments (or find a new practice area). But no one else built that straw-man you're arguing with.

[objctnyrhnr]

But the far more likely outcome is that they barely scrape by on court appointments.

I know this forum is full of very risk-averse people, but this mindset of "Big Law" or "scraping by on court appointments" just has to stop.

If OP wants to take a leap of faith and start his own practice, then his primary goal should be to market himself in that regard, but to practice generally until his niche supports an entire practice.

I myself market business law, employment law, and property law. Kind of a hogwash but it basically promotes to affluent people, so it works in my small town. But I accept damn near anything that comes through the door (so long as it pays).

I started my practice on April 13 of last year, and to date, I am just shy of bringing in dollar number $100,000 ($87,000 of that being profit). And let me be clear here -- I am an absolutely nobody. I do practice in my hometown, but my family has absolutely zero connections. I went to a public high school, Ohio State for undergrad, and Ohio State for law school. I got mediocre grades in law school. I practiced at a mid-sized firm for about 4 years before going out on my own. My first month of invoices were for four clients.

It's honestly not that hard to make a really decent living on your own. Yes, I do criminal appointment work. Yes, I do local appearance counsel work (pays $75-100 to cover a hearing). Yes, I take on goofy cases. But it's easier than when I was working at a firm.

Now, building up to a specific niche? That will take time--lots of social media marketing, lots of handshaking. Probably years. I have not gotten there yet, although I am starting to see referrals start coming in, especially on the business law front, and I might be narrowing down to just business law and employment law here within a year or so (especially since the employment stuff ties nicely into the business stuff).

But if OP has common sense and a desire to make it work, he will have a profitable solo practice. Whether it ever morphs into a DUI specialty practice is a different inquiry, but that alone should not deter him from making that leap.

OP I’m a little concerned about the specificity of your aspirations. I want to emphasize what above poster said and then emphasize it again because I believe it is a bit understated in this post.

You like the idea of defending perps of crimes with weaker mens reas and OUI/DUI is the obvious one. Sure. Intellectually, I get that. And more broadly speaking, I acknowledge that defense attorneys do important work.

That being said, I’m concerned about your aspiration because of what it will take to get there, when compared to your specific goal and underlying reasons. What happens when you have to rep hundreds and hundreds of blatantly factually guilty people who did very clearly violent things (things that have, let’s say, relatively strong mens reas) before you get to touch a private oui client?

Again, given your specific reasons for your goal, I’m a little concerned for you that you’ll burn out (I.e. get frustrated) long before your reach that goal...a goal that wouldn’t qualify as unicorn but is sufficiently specific that it can’t necessarily be attained by hard work and tact alone.

My two cents. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[AVBucks4239]

But the far more likely outcome is that they barely scrape by on court appointments.

I know this forum is full of very risk-averse people, but this mindset of "Big Law" or "scraping by on court appointments" just has to stop.

Then it's a really good thing I never said that. The OP indicated an interest in DUI defense and only DUI defense. If they don't become the "DUI King" of their region, then yes, they will probably have to scrape by on court appointments (or find a new practice area). But no one else built that straw-man you're arguing with.

Again, you still you insist OP “will hve to scrape by on court appointments.” That could not be further from the case.

[cavalier1138]

But the far more likely outcome is that they barely scrape by on court appointments.

I know this forum is full of very risk-averse people, but this mindset of "Big Law" or "scraping by on court appointments" just has to stop.

Then it's a really good thing I never said that. The OP indicated an interest in DUI defense and only DUI defense. If they don't become the "DUI King" of their region, then yes, they will probably have to scrape by on court appointments (or find a new practice area). But no one else built that straw-man you're arguing with.

Again, you still you insist OP “will hve to scrape by on court appointments.” That could not be further from the case.

*sigh*

What will the OP's book of business look like if they only handle DUIs and aren't the "DUI King" of their jurisdiction?

[AVBucks4239]

What will the OP's book of business look like if they only handle DUIs and aren't the "DUI King" of their jurisdiction?

Read my post and OBJ's post. We are expressly telling OP NOT to just handle DUIs at first; but to market a DUI speciality and practice broadly, and then, over time, he *might* get the reputation he desires as the "DUI King." But that will take time.

I wrote over a month ago now:

You'll want to be much, much more diverse. I've approached it by advertising niche areas but practicing generally. It's starting to take hold over time, but I think you are misguided if you think you are just going to open a DUI/criminal defense office and think you're going to keep the lights on. You must be broader at first.

I wrote earlier today:

If OP wants to take a leap of faith and start his own practice, then his primary goal should be to market himself in that regard, but to practice generally until his niche supports an entire practice.

I will use today as an anecdote -- here are some of the things I handled today:

1. I spent about an hour on a false imprisonment case one of the big hardware stores (Home Depot, Lowe's, etc.). Settlement currently on the table is $7,500 (and I only have about 3 hours into the file...looking good so far).

2. Prepared for two criminal appointment hearings tomorrow morning.

3. Appeared at a municipal court for $100.

4. Had an initial consultation for probable litigation on a promissory note.

Etcetera. Yet if I ran into a friend at a coffee shop tomorrow, and they asked me what I did, I would say, "I generally handle business and employment law matters, but being that I just started, I'm taking on other work as well."

My first four months of invoices had four clients, two of them corporate. I now have 16 corporate clients, and several of them have 4-5 matters going on at once. I would hope that two years from now, I have 40-50 corporate clients, I will be off the public defender list, and I will refer the client with a false imprisonment claim to a younger lawyer.

So this is the point I'm making. OP, if he elects to go on his own, will probably do fine; it will not be "court appointments" or bust. It will be doing local appearance work; criminal appointments; maybe guardian ad litem work; private sector clients; estate planning; on and on. There are so many ways to make money as a solo. But it will not be court appointment or bust.

[cavalier1138]

What will the OP's book of business look like if they only handle DUIs and aren't the "DUI King" of their jurisdiction?

Read my post and OBJ's post. We are expressly telling OP NOT to just handle DUIs at first; but to market a DUI speciality and practice broadly, and then, over time, he *might* get the reputation he desires as the "DUI King." But that will take time.

Great, we agree. Now go back and read my initial post, and you'll note that I was only speaking in the context of trying to limit the practice to DUIs. You're the one who flew off the handle about this being some weird biglaw-or-nothing dichotomy, which no one ever said it was.

[Aptitude]

Taking legal career advice from the "owner of the busy bar or restaurant across the street" is a recipe for disaster.

Taking advice about creating positive cash flow from people who do it within a highly competitive industry with lots of overhead is an excellent idea. Especially when considering that a successful restaurant owner is a millionaire a few times over.

As a solo attorney, OP will essentially be a small business owner. He'll need to know how successful small business owners operate and survive day to day. He should talk to Attorneys he knows that run successful solo or small firm practices. As well as the entrepreneurs and business owners he knows in competitive markets. He should talk to CPAs and people who understand investment and money.

There are many small firm owners that are far better business people or salesmen than they are Attorneys. Especially in DUIs, where the majority of people settle, he doesn't need to be a legal genius. He mainly needs to figure out how to get people in the door in a competitive industry, and how to keep a share of the market.

Again, given your specific reasons for your goal, I’m a little concerned for you that you’ll burn out (I.e. get frustrated) long before your reach that goal...a goal that wouldn’t qualify as unicorn but is sufficiently specific that it can’t necessarily be attained by hard work and tact alone.

Luck plays a role in everything. Very few things can be achieved just by hard work and tact, without role playing a factor. People here just have a flawed view of risk, and don't really understand business and start-ups.

If OP wants to take the risk, more power to them. My point was only to say that one shouldn't quit a steady job so start such a venture without an understanding that it is a risk, and that raking in the millions is far from a typical result. Additionally, running a high-volume DUI practice isn't exactly a revolutionary business idea.

Raking in millions in far from typical, as in any industry. It's difficult to do, obviously.

There is inherit risk in everything. Running a DUI practice isn't a "revolutionary" idea, but neither are the majority of startups that rake in millions or billions.

Facebook was not a revolutionary idea. Many social media websites had existed before it, with similar concepts, even in the 1990s. Twitter was not a revolutionary idea, people were microblogging before its existence. Windows, the operating system was not a revolutionary idea, the software was in existence and mostly had developed by two major companies prior. Skadden was not "revolutionary", other law firms existed before it. Weitz & Luxenberg P.C. is not the only law firm to decide to pursue asbestos, that's not a "revolution" and they exist.

This idea that you have to be "revolutionary" is flawed. OP needs good timing/luck (as if with everything else), be smart about how he develops business, understanding the finances and business aspects behind running a small business (the biggest challenge from what I see here), and the right mentality. Creating positive cash flow for businesses in a competitive industry is very difficult, but a good % of OP's competition will be terrible at business or don't understand how to properly market anyways.

People need to stop acting like going out, starting a small business with low-overhead and grabbing a larger share of the DUI market requires some type of revolutionary Steve Jobs-esque miracle. There are attorneys that manage this in every city across the United States.

[LBJ's Hair]

Taking legal career advice from the "owner of the busy bar or restaurant across the street" is a recipe for disaster.

Taking advice about creating positive cash flow from people who do it within a highly competitive industry with lots of overhead is an excellent idea. Especially when considering that a successful restaurant owner is a millionaire a few times over.

As a solo attorney, OP will essentially be a small business owner. He'll need to know how successful small business owners operate and survive day to day. He should talk to Attorneys he knows that run successful solo or small firm practices. As well as the entrepreneurs and business owners he knows in competitive markets. He should talk to CPAs and people who understand investment and money.

There are many small firm owners that are far better business people or salesmen than they are Attorneys. Especially in DUIs, where the majority of people settle, he doesn't need to be a legal genius. He mainly needs to figure out how to get people in the door in a competitive industry, and how to keep a share of the market.

Again, given your specific reasons for your goal, I’m a little concerned for you that you’ll burn out (I.e. get frustrated) long before your reach that goal...a goal that wouldn’t qualify as unicorn but is sufficiently specific that it can’t necessarily be attained by hard work and tact alone.

Luck plays a role in everything. Very few things can be achieved just by hard work and tact, without role playing a factor. People here just have a flawed view of risk, and don't really understand business and start-ups.

If OP wants to take the risk, more power to them. My point was only to say that one shouldn't quit a steady job so start such a venture without an understanding that it is a risk, and that raking in the millions is far from a typical result. Additionally, running a high-volume DUI practice isn't exactly a revolutionary business idea.

Raking in millions in far from typical, as in any industry. It's difficult to do, obviously.

There is inherit risk in everything. Running a DUI practice isn't a "revolutionary" idea, but neither are the majority of startups that rake in millions or billions.

Facebook was not a revolutionary idea. Many social media websites had existed before it, with similar concepts, even in the 1990s. Twitter was not a revolutionary idea, people were microblogging before its existence. Windows, the operating system was not a revolutionary idea, the software was in existence and mostly had developed by two major companies prior. Skadden was not "revolutionary", other law firms existed before it. Weitz & Luxenberg P.C. is not the only law firm to decide to pursue asbestos, that's not a "revolution" and they exist.

This idea that you have to be "revolutionary" is flawed. OP needs good timing/luck (as if with everything else), be smart about how he develops business, understanding the finances and business aspects behind running a small business (the biggest challenge from what I see here), and the right mentality. Creating positive cash flow for businesses in a competitive industry is very difficult, but a good % of OP's competition will be terrible at business or don't understand how to properly market anyways.

People need to stop acting like going out, starting a small business with low-overhead and grabbing a larger share of the DUI market requires some type of revolutionary Steve Jobs-esque miracle. There are attorneys that manage this in every city across the United States.

I honestly can't tell if this is a troll or not but I'm assuming it isn't. If it is, well-played.

I don't think anyone is questioning whether it's theoretically possible to run a successful DUI shop. They're making the extremely reasonable point that most small businesses fail and if you're making mid-six figures with benefits at BigLaw and know basically nothing about running a solo practice, you should think twice before quitting to hang up a shingle.

I'm also like, frankly, flabbergasted that you think a restaurant owner could give OP useful advice about opening up a solo practice. They're completely different businesses: Different cost structure, revenue model, different market...As to Facebook/Twitter....just lol. This reads like a scene from Silicon Valley.

[cavalier1138]

Also, super-brave use of anon.

[Aptitude]

I honestly can't tell if this is a troll or not but I'm assuming it isn't. If it is, well-played.

Didn't even realize I hit anonymous. Don't even see what difference it makes, or why you and another poster are crying about it.

I don't think anyone is questioning whether it's theoretically possible to run a successful DUI shop. They're making the extremely reasonable point that most small businesses fail and if you're making mid-six figures with benefits at BigLaw and know basically nothing about running a solo practice, you should think twice before quitting to hang up a shingle.

You should do proper research and prepare. But it's not that different than any person that leaves their comfortable office job to start a business. There are people that risk way more money/income/comfort to start a business.

I'm also like, frankly, flabbergasted that you think a restaurant owner could give OP useful advice about opening up a solo practice. They're completely different businesses: Different cost structure, revenue model, different market...As to Facebook/Twitter....just lol. This reads like a scene from Silicon Valley.

There are several entrepreneurs I know that have been successful running multiple types of businesses. I know for instance, solo attorneys that run successful businesses completely unrelated to law, because they have good business acumen. And they would parrot my opinion on this. I know plenty of people that own several types of successful businesses, from Doctor's offices, to real estate investments, the stock market, to retail businesses.

Also yes - plenty of people in the Silicon Valley risk comfortable, high paying jobs to start a business. I know plenty of people that have risked far more than just 6 digits and benefits.

Your post is actually hilarious. But you do you, and keep on believing what you want to believe. I actually prefer people with your mentality, it makes it easier for the rest of us to make money.

OP, most of this thread is a waste of your time. I'm guessing the majority of people here who have replied to you aside from AVBucks4239 and I have never dabbled in any type of start-up or business endeavor. You can tell from their mentality. If you want some good resources that may help with your research, feel free to PM me.