2L - Full Grade Drop because of Technicality Forum

[bpfishers90]

I am feeling absolutely horrible about this. I took my Trusts & Estates exam today, and I mistakenly took the exam booklet home with me (i.e., the booklet with the exam questions on it). I started chatting with the kid next to me, and absentmindedly put it in my bag without thinking. I didn't even notice until the Dean sent me an e-mail about an hour later saying they were missing my exam. I literally sped back to school and turned it in immediately.

The issue is, my professor is a HUGE stickler about this exact issue. She has a bolded, written policy that anyone who does not return an exam booklet immediately after the exam will have their grade dropped by at least one letter grade, and may fail the course.

I'm a 2L at a T14 with a summer firm job lined up (V5). My grades up until this point have very good, but not amazing (like maybe a tier below the lowest law review-level grades). I think I probably wrote a B+/A- T&E exam, so this professor's rule means I will likely receive a C+/B- on the exam. The Dean specifically said he would be shocked if my professor doesn't lower my grade because she is extremely beholden to her policies, but he obviously cannot predict what will happen.

I am really devastated over this. I understand this policy was made strikingly clear from the beginning, but it's eating me up that I am probably going to get my first law school "C" because of an honest mistake that affected nobody. My husband thinks I'm losing it, but he doesn't understand law school pressure. Any advice on how to move on and not let this completely ruin my break?

[QContinuum]

I'm sorry.

That said, I can't imagine your firm caring as long as you don't fail out of law school (or go on probation or whatnot). In all likelihood, no lawyers at the firm will ever ask or become aware of your 2L/3L grades. The firm's HR will request your transcript at some point before/during the summer to make sure you're still on track to graduate, and again after you graduate to make sure you actually received your J.D. They will not pull your SA or no-offer you because you got a B- or a C+ in T&E.

[cavalier1138]

+1 to the firm not caring. But it's probably a good wake-up call for stuff like this; "honest mistakes that affect nobody" can be crippling procedural errors in practice.

[QContinuum]

+1 to the firm not caring. But it's probably a good wake-up call for stuff like this; "honest mistakes that affect nobody" can be crippling procedural errors in practice.

cavalier makes a great point. Similar honest errors in a deal doc or court filing could wind up costing your client millions when the other side ruthlessly exploits the mistake.

For that precise reason, for SAs and juniors perhaps the single most important thing is to avoid making errors. There's almost nothing (short of literally committing a crime or something) that'll tank a SA/junior's reputation and prospects faster than being sloppy.

This is not to pile on to OP's misery, or to be holier than thou - I've certainly made my share of mistakes! But just to highlight, to OP and other readers, how important it is to be super duper careful in the legal world.

[Npret]

It’s not a technicality. You walked off with the exam book in your purse which the professor specifically prohibits. You made a human error, but it’s not a technicality if your grade gets lowered. My guess is that the professor will feel the need to enforce this rule because they seem to care about exam books not leaving the room.

All you can do is apologize and hope for the best.

I have never heard about a firm caring unless possibly you fail. Wait and see what happens.

[bettercallmymidlevel]

I am sorry this happened. The above posters are above correct -- innocent mistakes are, of course, punished severely all the time. That doesn't mean they should be, however, and in this instance, I think a grade drop is a bit too severe given you took the exam book and not the answers. Professor sounds annoying.

With all that being said, as you will eventually learn, wrong and right are not really relevant concepts in the law. Instead, I would focus on what you can do to CYA with regards to your firm job (your only real priority at this stage of your law school career). In a perfect world, I would email your firm NOW and let them know this happened. Of course, I'm not recommending you do that, because you could end up with a B- and it would be better for your firm to never hear about this. But, if you are going to get a C- or D, I think it would be preferable for you to get ahead of this. So, the best solution may be to get as good a read as you can on how this Professor is going to deal with this. Honestly, maybe just email him/her, explain the situation, and get a feel how seriously she/he is taking this. If you get the impression this is going to be really severe, I would then float it to your school's career planning office.

[QContinuum]

Instead, I would focus on what you can do to CYA with regards to your firm job (your only real priority at this stage of your law school career). In a perfect world, I would email your firm NOW and let them know this happened. Of course, I'm not recommending you do that, because you could end up with a B- and it would be better for your firm to never hear about this. But, if you are going to get a C- or D, I think it would be preferable for you to get ahead of this. So, the best solution may be to get as good a read as you can on how this Professor is going to deal with this. Honestly, maybe just email him/her, explain the situation, and get a feel how seriously she/he is taking this. If you get the impression this is going to be really severe, I would then float it to your school's career planning office.

Strongly disagree with the advice above. OP has no clue what their grade will be. They could very well get a B or B-, which wouldn't raise anyone's eyebrows at all.

If OP does end up with a D, I still don't think it'd be preferable to raise a stink about it with the firm.

[LBJ's Hair]

I am sorry this happened. The above posters are above correct -- innocent mistakes are, of course, punished severely all the time. That doesn't mean they should be, however, and in this instance, I think a grade drop is a bit too severe given you took the exam book and not the answers. Professor sounds annoying.

With all that being said, as you will eventually learn, wrong and right are not really relevant concepts in the law. Instead, I would focus on what you can do to CYA with regards to your firm job (your only real priority at this stage of your law school career). In a perfect world, I would email your firm NOW and let them know this happened. Of course, I'm not recommending you do that, because you could end up with a B- and it would be better for your firm to never hear about this. But, if you are going to get a C- or D, I think it would be preferable for you to get ahead of this. So, the best solution may be to get as good a read as you can on how this Professor is going to deal with this. Honestly, maybe just email him/her, explain the situation, and get a feel how seriously she/he is taking this. If you get the impression this is going to be really severe, I would then float it to your school's career planning office.

this is terrible advice. OP is going to a V5 - they're not going to get no-offered over one bad grade. what could get them no-offered is partners thinking they're a weirdo who can't handle stress. perhaps because they got a meltdown email about a T&E final.

OP, you're not going to fail the class. relax.

[Anonymous User]

Got a C+ 2l and a C 3l. GPA dropped from a 3.6 1L to a 3.32 3L...firm didn’t care. Don’t email your firm.

[bettercallmymidlevel]

Instead, I would focus on what you can do to CYA with regards to your firm job (your only real priority at this stage of your law school career). In a perfect world, I would email your firm NOW and let them know this happened. Of course, I'm not recommending you do that, because you could end up with a B- and it would be better for your firm to never hear about this. But, if you are going to get a C- or D, I think it would be preferable for you to get ahead of this. So, the best solution may be to get as good a read as you can on how this Professor is going to deal with this. Honestly, maybe just email him/her, explain the situation, and get a feel how seriously she/he is taking this. If you get the impression this is going to be really severe, I would then float it to your school's career planning office.

Strongly disagree with the advice above. OP has no clue what their grade will be. They could very well get a B or B-, which wouldn't raise anyone's eyebrows at all.

If OP does end up with a D, I still don't think it'd be preferable to raise a stink about it with the firm.

Seems everyone missed the part where I said not to email the firm and instead talk first to the professor and then OCP...bolded to highlight. If she is going to fail the class--which she said COULD happen--I would talk to the firm.

[QContinuum]

Seems everyone missed the part where I said not to email the firm and instead talk first to the professor and then OCP...bolded to highlight. If she is going to fail the class--which she said COULD happen--I would talk to the firm.

No, OP did not say they "COULD" fail the class. OP said:

I will likely receive a C+/B- on the exam ... it's eating me up that I am probably going to get my first law school "C" because of an honest mistake that affected nobody.

There is no suggestion that OP expects to receive a failing grade.

Further, despite your quoted advice below, a C- or a D is not a failing grade (and again, OP isn't at risk of receiving a C-, let alone a D; the worst grade OP appears to be at risk of receiving is a C+).

But, if you are going to get a C- or D, it would be preferable for you to get ahead of this. So, the best solution may be to get as good a read as you can on how this Professor is going to deal with this.

At NYU, for example, a C (they don't have +/- modifiers for C) is considered a passing grade, full stop. Even a D is considered passing, full stop, so long as a student doesn't acquire >8 credits of D.

82 term credits (for students who began their studies in 2003 or earlier) or 83 term credits (for students who began their studies in 2004 and thereafter); grades of D (in excess of 8 credits after the first term) required to be compensated by grades of B or better.

Finally, even if OP was actually at risk of receiving an F (which, in reality, they aren't), they should not preemptively "get ahead of this." They should deal with the F if and only if it actually happens. Going to Career Services or the firm about the "risk of getting an F" is not going to help. I'd go so far as to say there's not even any possibility of "getting ahead of this" being a helpful course of action.

[Bingo_Bongo]

I’m going to echo what everyone else here has said: Nobody aside from maybe your professor is going to find out about this or care. If you’ve already been hired as an SA, you’ve already been hired. After you graduate your firm’s HR department might request a copy of your complete transcripts, but they’re not going to revoke your offer because you got a bad grade in one class. Definitely don’t email anyone about this.

I would argue, though, that this isn’t just a “technicality.” Think of it from your professor’s point of view: do you think professors like coming up with new exam questions? It’s hard. If they lose track of exam books, there’s a possibility that an unscrupulous student copied the questions and will be willing to sell them to students next semester. So, there becomes a need to completely rewrite the exam, which takes time and effort.

Or, if there are students with ADA accommodations that take exams at different times, there’s a possibility the questions get leaked to them, and everyone’s grade is thrown off the curve unfairly.

Reducing a grade for bringing home an exam book is a good deterent from that type of behavior. In your case it might have been innocent, but lawyers get punished for innocent mistakes all the time.

Heck, I got bench slapped for somebody else’s innocent mistake the other day. I had a court appearance where all I was doing was continuing another attorney’s matter. That attorney didn’t file the proper request for continuance form at least two days before the hearing. He didn’t think he had to. Do you think HE was the one who was about to get sanctioned or ME, the guy standing in front of the judge?

[bettercallmymidlevel]

No, OP did not say they "COULD" fail the class.
...
There is no suggestion that OP expects to receive a failing grade.

The booklet literally says she could fail the class. OP is speculating about the end result. And, as you seem to acknowledge now, I never said she should tell the firm. I only said if she felt a really bad grade was coming down the pike, she might want to take some proactive steps. You can disagree with that, and that is well and good, but there's no need to try and chop up my post to make it say something it didn't.

[gaddockteeg]

Again, not to pile on but think of this as a leanrning mistake. I made a similar dumb move that cost me as well:

When I first took the bar exam, many moons ago, I brought an iPad into the testing room. I didn't want to leave it outside for fear of it being stolen so I left it in the corner of the room, away from me, everyone else, and turned off. However, after I finished the exam period that day, I was given a red slip that said I committed a testing violation and I got a zero on the testing for that period (2nd half of the MBE). Needless to say, I failed the bar. My firm didn't have a set policy on re-takes either so I wasn't sure if I was going to fired or not come November when results came out.

I retook the bar in Feb and passed but that stupid inconsequential action that I did gave me: ruined my post bar summer, a shitty stub year bc I thought I might be fired for failing the bar, a shitty two months of re-studying for feb bar + balancing big law workload, an anxious three months waiting for feb bar results bc I would definitely get fired for failing twice.

[pfunkera]

I would argue, though, that this isn’t just a “technicality.” Think of it from your professor’s point of view: do you think professors like coming up with new exam questions? It’s hard. If they lose track of exam books, there’s a possibility that an unscrupulous student copied the questions and will be willing to sell them to students next semester. So, there becomes a need to completely rewrite the exam, which takes time and effort.

totally off topic but this drove me nuts about law school. The professors get paid pretty well and then they want to complain about having to come up with a couple new exam questions each year? Especially with just one test a semester? I wish I could just use my old work over and over again. I think students would learn much better if each student got their graded exam after the fact so they knew what they got right and what they got wrong. You could ace the exam while only getting half the possible points because of the curve. I realize you can go in and review the exam with the prof, but I worked full-time during law school so I never had the time during the day to do that.

[Bingo_Bongo]

totally off topic but this drove me nuts about law school. The professors get paid pretty well and then they want to complain about having to come up with a couple new exam questions each year? Especially with just one test a semester? I wish I could just use my old work over and over again. I think students would learn much better if each student got their graded exam after the fact so they knew what they got right and what they got wrong. You could ace the exam while only getting half the possible points because of the curve. I realize you can go in and review the exam with the prof, but I worked full-time during law school so I never had the time during the day to do that.

I agree completely. For as much money as they make, and the fact that the only freaking teach two classes a semester, the least they can do is take a day to come up with an original exam from scratch.

When I was in law school my 1L contracts professor let us take our exams home after they got graded with all of his sarcastic comments scribbled in red all over them. He also let us take home our scantrons and he e-mailed a copy of the multiple choice questions with the answer key. He was the most intimidating professor I've ever had, but everyone respected the hell out of him for stuff like that. He made a new exam every year, and gave all his classes his three most recent prior exams to use for studying, along with a model essay answer from whoever Am-Jur'd the class. He'd make you feel like an idiot when he cold called you, but you knew exactly what to expect from him. He was an open book.

Every other professor was lazy and reused exams year after year. One professor literally stole half her multiple choice questions from one specific review book. Everyone knew it and it was an unwritten rule that you had to buy that book and do the practice tests if you wanted a good grade, because you'd be at huge a disadvantage if you didn't since everyone else was. It's like you make six figures working twelve hours a week. Is it really that much effort to come up with your own questions?