SA working overtime/staffed on live deal? Forum

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SA working overtime/staffed on live deal?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:48 pm

I understand that generally SAs don't bill a lot and firms certainly don't encourage SAs to work overtime. But what if I just enjoy working and learning as much as possible? Does it raise eyebrows if I keep asking the staffer for work and stay in the office pretty late everyday as an SA?
In addition, do summer associates get staffed on live deals at all? I know Cravath staffs SAs on live deals pretty frequently but not sure what the scheme is at my firm (another NY v5). I was an IB M&A analyst and am pretty familiar with the rituals of an M&A deal. Given that, is it appropriate for me to directly ask the staffer to put me on a live deal and give me a lot of substantive work?
thx.

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Nagster5

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Re: SA working overtime/staffed on live deal?

Post by Nagster5 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:59 pm

Just do what you're told. Each firm's process for SAs is different, some will have you working on live deals, some won't. The best thing you can do is whatever they ask. No one will remember that you worked on fifteen projects, but they will remember substandard work. Take the assignments you're given, spend the time you're allotted, and let people know when you don't have anything to do. Focus on doing what you're given well, not trying to do as much work as possible. Having said all that, it's fine to ask to be involved in live deals or otherwise show interest in a certain type of work. Even if the firm doesn't give SAs real work, most are happy to let you sit in on meetings and phone calls so you can see what the process is like.

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Re: SA working overtime/staffed on live deal?

Post by Npret » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I understand that generally SAs don't bill a lot and firms certainly don't encourage SAs to work overtime. But what if I just enjoy working and learning as much as possible? Does it raise eyebrows if I keep asking the staffer for work and stay in the office pretty late everyday as an SA?
In addition, do summer associates get staffed on live deals at all? I know Cravath staffs SAs on live deals pretty frequently but not sure what the scheme is at my firm (another NY v5). I was an IB M&A analyst and am pretty familiar with the rituals of an M&A deal. Given that, is it appropriate for me to directly ask the staffer to put me on a live deal and give me a lot of substantive work?
thx.
No, don’t work more than everyone else. Do the work you are staffed on perfectly, be a positive team member and don’t ever act like you know more than anyone else. I know people might be turned off by a summer who had an approach of “I know all about this, give me substantive work. I can do more than other summers.” The reason they may feel that way is because you may seem like you will be a pain in the ass and unhappy as a first and second year. I’m not suggesting you will behave this way, and there are tactful ways to handle this request, just be careful.

This might seem counterintuitive. You might think “let me show off what I know!” There are ways to do that, just ask and see what can be done.

The point of a summer is to get a job. A crucial
aspect of that is being easy to work with and a good team member. Certainly ask to be staffed on deals but do the work you are given. Don’t ask for more if you are already working as much as everyone else.

The number 1 thing to avoid as a summer is complaining about anything. I can’t emphasize that enough. That includes the work you are given.

As a senior associate we got reminded every summer that summers should not be working late and should be attending firm events. If a summer works too many hours, recruiting and the department summer coordinators are not happy.

All that said, my firm in corporate always had summers listen in on calls and attend meetings.

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Re: SA working overtime/staffed on live deal?

Post by QContinuum » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:44 pm

Npret is completely correct.

I can confidently say that at a NYC V5, OP would be doing actual work. I'm not aware of any V100, actually, that relegates summers to only "fake" projects. Of course there will be trainings, but the lion's share of the time over the summer will be spent on actual work, not trainings.

At a V5, it is also likely that there will be some overtime work. But again, Npret is right that there's no need to gun (and in fact, gunning will be counterproductive) as a summer.

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Re: SA working overtime/staffed on live deal?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:07 am

Honestly, I gave my summers total shit work and told them to enjoy the summer. They aren't allowed to stay late anyways, and they have no idea what they are doing and I was busy, so I would just give them docs to turn and the big agreements and tell them to read it and ask me questions. They were on live deals though listening to calls and taking notes and that kind of stuff, but nothing really substantive.

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RedGiant

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Re: SA working overtime/staffed on live deal?

Post by RedGiant » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:26 am

I suppose it would depend on the firm, but I have worked at several V5 firms as staff, and also as a biglaw attorney. Most firms are too busy to make up too many "fake" summer assignments. (There will certainly be the oddball research assignment.) You may not have direct client contact, but you will work on live deals. You will often be brought along to meetings, but your role is to say NOTHING and be a sidekick. BTW, "live deals" is very much a banking term and not really used in corporate law. (I was a banking analyst back in the day too!). Also, you will have an _enormous_ leg up on your classmates who don't understand finance or the deal process. It will be evident immediately--no need to tout it. I was (long ago) complimented on this _all the time_.

When I was a summer, I worked late often and even did an all-nighter for a closing (womp!). Do not be a gunner. You will have plenty of time to learn and work. Do what you are assigned, in the time it takes you. If you are asked to stay late, stay late. Don't stay late for the sake of staying late. Take your cues from your associate mentor as to what is normal in the SA program at the firm.

Understand that if you're working banking hours always at a law firm, you're doing it wrong. You don't get a way bigger bonus most places for killing yourself. Learn what you need to learn, balance your life (inasmuch possible in M&A) so you have the stamina to keep going for a few years. You will learn a ton by working, but there's no medal for working the most in law firms...just more work. Often the additional work is not new or glamourous--it's just more. So do what you can, do it well, on time and with a smile. The goal in firms is to do the scut work perfectly so you get to move up to cooler things faster. In the case of M&A, that's drafting work. So your goal is to be the one with the pen on the main deal doc, and that likely won't come for a few years, so enjoy the fun of diligence and schedules in the interim.

Again--do not gun. People will already be impressed with your banking background. Leave it there.

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