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What do y'all think, Greenberg or White and Case?

White and Case

White & Case/Holland & Knight

White & Case > Weil/GT/Holland & Knight > JD/MWE (any market paying firm with a MIA office) > Akerman/Shutts Bowen/Gunster/Bilzin > the rest.

There are obviously boutiques, but I focused on full-service

Anonymous User wrote:White & Case > Weil/GT/Holland & Knight > JD/MWE (any market paying firm with a MIA office) > Akerman/Shutts Bowen/Gunster/Bilzin > the rest.

There are obviously boutiques, but I focused on full-service

Weil should be in the JD/MWE bucket. It's tiny now.

W&C is very debatable on the basis of partnership potential in Miami.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:White & Case > Weil/GT/Holland & Knight > JD/MWE (any market paying firm with a MIA office) > Akerman/Shutts Bowen/Gunster/Bilzin > the rest.

There are obviously boutiques, but I focused on full-service

Weil should be in the JD/MWE bucket. It's tiny now.

W&C is very debatable on the basis of partnership potential in Miami.

Who the hell wants to be a biglaw partner anyway?

W&C is the best gig if you want to do biglaw for a set amount of years and get paid the most for the best experience (other market paying firm offices are too small, except maybe Boies). If you want to make a career at one firm and become partner, H&K is probably the best gig, especially with its deep FL roots. I don’t think Greenberg is even in the conversation, folks there are miserable, pay sucks (they even write articles about it!), and being a partner seems like a worse deal than just being a W&C 8th year.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:White & Case > Weil/GT/Holland & Knight > JD/MWE (any market paying firm with a MIA office) > Akerman/Shutts Bowen/Gunster/Bilzin > the rest.

There are obviously boutiques, but I focused on full-service

Weil should be in the JD/MWE bucket. It's tiny now.

W&C is very debatable on the basis of partnership potential in Miami.

Who the hell wants to be a biglaw partner anyway?

W&C is the best gig if you want to do biglaw for a set amount of years and get paid the most for the best experience (other market paying firm offices are too small, except maybe Boies). If you want to make a career at one firm and become partner, H&K is probably the best gig, especially with its deep FL roots. I don’t think Greenberg is even in the conversation, folks there are miserable, pay sucks (they even write articles about it!), and being a partner seems like a worse deal than just being a W&C 8th year.

I’d argue that GT and Akerman have better FL roots than H&K. Also, the associate salaries at the three are all comparable. They all max out around the low 200,000 range.

But yes, GT sounds like a miserable place.

Anonymous User wrote:I’d argue that GT and Akerman have better FL roots than H&K. Also, the associate salaries at the three are all comparable. They all max out around the low 200,000 range.

But yes, GT sounds like a miserable place.

A senior associate at GT/Akerman/H&K in Miami is making low $200k? What about with bonuses?

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I’d argue that GT and Akerman have better FL roots than H&K. Also, the associate salaries at the three are all comparable. They all max out around the low 200,000 range.

But yes, GT sounds like a miserable place.

A senior associate at GT/Akerman/H&K in Miami is making low $200k? What about with bonuses?

I’ve heard of bonuses as high as 50k (so maybe 50% of market max?). Probably lower at Akerman than at Holland & Knight at GT because of the differences in revenue. So I’d assume all-in compensation max at around 250-275 at these firms.

For what it’s worth, I’m a midlevel and my all-in comp this year will be around 205-210.

The bonuses are paltry, but all things considered, not terrible.

Are these rankings predominantly focused on Miami? What are the rankings in other Florida cities?

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:White & Case > Weil/GT/Holland & Knight > JD/MWE (any market paying firm with a MIA office) > Akerman/Shutts Bowen/Gunster/Bilzin > the rest.

There are obviously boutiques, but I focused on full-service

Weil should be in the JD/MWE bucket. It's tiny now.

W&C is very debatable on the basis of partnership potential in Miami.

Who the hell wants to be a biglaw partner anyway?

W&C is the best gig if you want to do biglaw for a set amount of years and get paid the most for the best experience (other market paying firm offices are too small, except maybe Boies). If you want to make a career at one firm and become partner, H&K is probably the best gig, especially with its deep FL roots. I don’t think Greenberg is even in the conversation, folks there are miserable, pay sucks (they even write articles about it!), and being a partner seems like a worse deal than just being a W&C 8th year.

I’d argue that GT and Akerman have better FL roots than H&K. Also, the associate salaries at the three are all comparable. They all max out around the low 200,000 range.

But yes, GT sounds like a miserable place.

GT and Akerman have deep FL roots, but H&K does too -- it was founded in Lakeland in 1968. But I think what makes H&K the best Florida-based gig with a partnership track is that it has much more of a national presence/ceiling for advancement than GT or Akerman. Akerman is basically nothing outside of FL.

Cicero76 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:White & Case > Weil/GT/Holland & Knight > JD/MWE (any market paying firm with a MIA office) > Akerman/Shutts Bowen/Gunster/Bilzin > the rest.

There are obviously boutiques, but I focused on full-service

Weil should be in the JD/MWE bucket. It's tiny now.

W&C is very debatable on the basis of partnership potential in Miami.

Who the hell wants to be a biglaw partner anyway?

W&C is the best gig if you want to do biglaw for a set amount of years and get paid the most for the best experience (other market paying firm offices are too small, except maybe Boies). If you want to make a career at one firm and become partner, H&K is probably the best gig, especially with its deep FL roots. I don’t think Greenberg is even in the conversation, folks there are miserable, pay sucks (they even write articles about it!), and being a partner seems like a worse deal than just being a W&C 8th year.

I’d argue that GT and Akerman have better FL roots than H&K. Also, the associate salaries at the three are all comparable. They all max out around the low 200,000 range.

But yes, GT sounds like a miserable place.

GT and Akerman have deep FL roots, but H&K does too -- it was founded in Lakeland in 1968. But I think what makes H&K the best Florida-based gig with a partnership track is that it has much more of a national presence/ceiling for advancement than GT or Akerman. Akerman is basically nothing outside of FL.

That’s probably accurate. HK is the happy medium. GT probably has more reach nationally than HK, but no one really wants to work there. Most of the offices seem toxic. Akerman probably has an easiest partnership track and lifestyle, but it’s still very unknown outside of South Florida.

Anonymous User wrote:

Cicero76 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:White & Case > Weil/GT/Holland & Knight > JD/MWE (any market paying firm with a MIA office) > Akerman/Shutts Bowen/Gunster/Bilzin > the rest.

There are obviously boutiques, but I focused on full-service

Weil should be in the JD/MWE bucket. It's tiny now.

W&C is very debatable on the basis of partnership potential in Miami.

Who the hell wants to be a biglaw partner anyway?

W&C is the best gig if you want to do biglaw for a set amount of years and get paid the most for the best experience (other market paying firm offices are too small, except maybe Boies). If you want to make a career at one firm and become partner, H&K is probably the best gig, especially with its deep FL roots. I don’t think Greenberg is even in the conversation, folks there are miserable, pay sucks (they even write articles about it!), and being a partner seems like a worse deal than just being a W&C 8th year.

I’d argue that GT and Akerman have better FL roots than H&K. Also, the associate salaries at the three are all comparable. They all max out around the low 200,000 range.

But yes, GT sounds like a miserable place.

GT and Akerman have deep FL roots, but H&K does too -- it was founded in Lakeland in 1968. But I think what makes H&K the best Florida-based gig with a partnership track is that it has much more of a national presence/ceiling for advancement than GT or Akerman. Akerman is basically nothing outside of FL.

That’s probably accurate. HK is the happy medium. GT probably has more reach nationally than HK, but no one really wants to work there. Most of the offices seem toxic. Akerman probably has an easiest partnership track and lifestyle, but it’s still very unknown outside of South Florida.

Pay aside, GT is more toxic than W&C?

Tiers are dumb. That said, I think you should ask whether you’d like to be partner track and have a chance at building business locally. If so, I’d heavily lean toward HK, Bilzin, GT, Akerman, and probably in that order when factoring QOL. Those are a cut above the other Fl-based firms. Partnership at these firms is realistic and, particularly for litigation, associates tend to get more more substantive opportunities sooner in their careers.

Of the Satellites, WC, HL, and MWE should probably rank at the top given the pay and the fact they actually have some work locally. The others pay as much but almost exclusively service other offices, which obviously has drawbacks. Also, partnership at any of the satellites is nearly impossible. And even if one were to make partner (incredibly rare), they’d be priced out of building a book locally, so they’d still have to service other offices or hope to inherent a senior partner’s book. On the flip side, these firms offer good training and lateral opportunities outside of Florida.

Does anyone have a sense of (1) whether these firms are eager/willing to hire associates from top firms and (2) how laterals are compensated (i.e., are they paid on the FL scale or compensated more generously)? Specifically interested in the FL-based firms such as GT and HK.

Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone have a sense of (1) whether these firms are eager/willing to hire associates from top firms and (2) how laterals are compensated (i.e., are they paid on the FL scale or compensated more generously)? Specifically interested in the FL-based firms such as GT and HK.

The FL firms pay these associates the same. And the firms are willing to hire associates from top firms, but they don’t have to go out of their way to find them. A lot of my firm’s laterals are FL-born and raised associates who went to t6 that worked at V20 firms before. The associates don’t make more than me. I think some received sizable bonuses, though.

I know of one hiring. If interested dm me. As for comp, you can absolutely negotiate. The ranges at these firms are so wide, and those at the top are very often laterals who negotiated a salary match.

Boies and Hogan, then the rest

Anonymous User wrote:Boies and Hogan, then the rest

Lol

Mods, out this coward for egregious trolling

If the firm doesn't pay NY, it's a TTT. Doesn't matter how big it is. Enough firms pay NY in Miami that those that don't are trash.

Anonymous User wrote:If the firm doesn't pay NY, it's a TTT. Doesn't matter how big it is. Enough firms pay NY in Miami that those that don't are trash.

Is there a list of these NY-market-paying firms anywhere?

Anonymous User wrote:If the firm doesn't pay NY, it's a TTT. Doesn't matter how big it is. Enough firms pay NY in Miami that those that don't are trash.

This is actually not true at all. In fact, the only firms that I can think of that are paying current NY market are tiny satellite outposts in Miami which don't compete with the bigger players like Greenberg Traurig, White & Case, and Holland & Knight.

uncle_rico wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:If the firm doesn't pay NY, it's a TTT. Doesn't matter how big it is. Enough firms pay NY in Miami that those that don't are trash.

This is actually not true at all. In fact, the only firms that I can think of that are paying current NY market are tiny satellite outposts in Miami which don't compete with the bigger players like Greenberg Traurig, White & Case, and Holland & Knight.

W&C pays NY. And GT/HK are TTT. Any firm, anywhere, that does blackbox/non-standardized comp is a TTT.

AFAIK, at least Hogan, W&C, Morgan Lewis, Hughes Hubbard, McDermott, Boies, and Weil pay NY. And the difference between NY and whatever scraps you get from GT is 50-100K a year.

Anonymous User wrote:

uncle_rico wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:If the firm doesn't pay NY, it's a TTT. Doesn't matter how big it is. Enough firms pay NY in Miami that those that don't are trash.

This is actually not true at all. In fact, the only firms that I can think of that are paying current NY market are tiny satellite outposts in Miami which don't compete with the bigger players like Greenberg Traurig, White & Case, and Holland & Knight.

W&C pays NY. And GT/HK are TTT. Any firm, anywhere, that does blackbox/non-standardized comp is a TTT.

AFAIK, at least Hogan, W&C, Morgan Lewis, Hughes Hubbard, McDermott, Boies, and Weil pay NY. And the difference between NY and whatever scraps you get from GT is 50-100K a year.

Once again, this is false. White & Case pays $183k (not NY base) and the raises are compressed. Hogan and Hughes Hubbard didn't increase Miami to 190k. Weil and Morgan Lewis have 16 (75% litigation) and 21 attorneys respectively, so they aren't even relevant in the market since they are satellites. I honestly don't know about Boies since there's no published information but they're an outlier to begin with since they're a litigation boutique and have an entirely different bonus structure.

Finally, the only firm that appears to pay NY market and maintain a remotely sizable presence is McDermott with 51 attorneys. So, unless you're ready to call McDermott the reigning firm in Miami (their office almost exclusively does T&E and Healthcare), then whether a firm pays NY market is not indicative of where they stand in the Miami legal market.

Anonymous User wrote:

uncle_rico wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:If the firm doesn't pay NY, it's a TTT. Doesn't matter how big it is. Enough firms pay NY in Miami that those that don't are trash.

This is actually not true at all. In fact, the only firms that I can think of that are paying current NY market are tiny satellite outposts in Miami which don't compete with the bigger players like Greenberg Traurig, White & Case, and Holland & Knight.

W&C pays NY. And GT/HK are TTT. Any firm, anywhere, that does blackbox/non-standardized comp is a TTT.

AFAIK, at least Hogan, W&C, Morgan Lewis, Hughes Hubbard, McDermott, Boies, and Weil pay NY. And the difference between NY and whatever scraps you get from GT is 50-100K a year.

I'm guessing this is what the anonymous option is really for. Oh, and this is also why people think biglaw lawyers are d-bags. Someone who is making over 160K is making "scraps," that's a sad outlook.

Still, I agree that GT should match.